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Discussion New Spire of Eternity rewards - discussion thread

Alpha Lyrae

Well-Known Member
So, what's the deal with getting extra artifacts for these evolving buildings? In 8 cities where I climb the whole spire every week I managed to get enough artifacts for one level 7 Stonehenge with all others at 2-4 artifacts. Mermaids is shaping up to be the same. If they just keep cycling it will be next year before I get enough artifacts to complete any evolving building. That's a year of no main prize worth anything to me.
For those who already have these buildings fully evolved... even more of a bummer. I'm on both sides of this. In one city, I have them all at L10. In another, I have none of the older ones, though I got very lucky and won enough artifacts to place a Fire Phoenix. In the end, I'm happy that I and others are getting an opportunity to evolve these buildings, even if it means 1 useless Spire prize for me in one of my cities. I still think the Spire rewards are worth the effort every week.
 

Darielle

Well-Known Member
Personally, I refuse to complain about this six-week rotation deal until AFTER we get the six weeks of the original Bear artifact. Everyone needs some of those, and they should start after the Mermaid artifact finishes.
As someone who has been looking at a stage 9 brown bear for the past 15 months, I can't wait for the bear artifacts. I just hope I'll be able to climb the spire as well as I've always done, given the fact that I just started Amuni and now need sentient in spire.
 

Eudaemonia

Well-Known Member
For those who already have these buildings fully evolved... even more of a bummer. I'm on both sides of this. In one city, I have them all at L10. In another, I have none of the older ones, though I got very lucky and won enough artifacts to place a Fire Phoenix. In the end, I'm happy that I and others are getting an opportunity to evolve these buildings, even if it means 1 useless Spire prize for me in one of my cities. I still think the Spire rewards are worth the effort every week.
In those cities where I am part of a gold spire FS I agree with you - the rewards gained by our collective effort make the spire worth it. But in the ones where the spire is an optional thing the rewards don't satisfy given I've grown my city for spire and tourney fighting. In those cities the rewards act as compensation for the cost of climbing. I use time boosters to complete the spire in a single day because I use battle boosters that have to last two weeks. I also use time boosters to train up more troops given i'm running two spire climbs back to back.

What frustrates me is the lack of reward for effort outside of fellowship rewards like those for 10 chests and gold/silver spire. Success or failure hang on the whim of the RNG gods and whether you're lucky enough to get things that make a tangible difference to ones city. I've experienced both and am grateful for the 'wins' but whilst you may be happy for the opportunity that will benefit a tiny minority I am not. I want more for more.
 

Alpha Lyrae

Well-Known Member
It's funny how short people's memories can be. Before Inno provided a way to get these relics again, players were begging for it and complaining here all the time how unfair the system was for older players, or players who didn't get all of the relics needed, yadda yadda. Now, newer players or players that simply missed out have a shot again. And guess what? More complaining.

Perhaps there's a better way to execute this (like Soggy's Spire Shop idea), but... I'm just going to be thankful for the opportunity we've been provided, as it's been provided and hope for the best. I'm sure I won't get everything I want, but when does that ever happen? If I end up with one or two more evolved buildings then I come out ahead.

(Edited to insert link.)
 

Kekune

Well-Known Member
I always look at the time boosts, catalysts, and diamonds as the "real" spire prizes. Everything else is just gravy. Magic buildings, dwarven armorers, and certain artifacts are really good, homemade gravy on top of some nice southern biscuits. PPs, spell fragments, and other random stuff is powdered gravy mix on leftover turkey. But still gravy. :)
 

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
really good, homemade gravy on top of some nice southern biscuits.
Yummm. Real sausage gravy and flacky, crumbly biscuits.
Those PPs are very useful to people who are going through the earlier guest chapters. Since I need more troops now, I am even liking the instant hammers. So, everything is useful to someone, which is a good balance in my book. What I get that I have enough of, isn't a problem. It just hangs around until INNO changes something and it becomes valuable to me again.
 

Eudaemonia

Well-Known Member
I always look at the time boosts, catalysts, and diamonds as the "real" spire prizes. Everything else is just gravy. Magic buildings, dwarven armorers, and certain artifacts are really good, homemade gravy on top of some nice southern biscuits. PPs, spell fragments, and other random stuff is powdered gravy mix on leftover turkey. But still gravy. :)
*holds bowl up for gravy* Please, sir, can I have some more?
no frags.png
 

Eudaemonia

Well-Known Member
It's funny how short people's memories can be. Before Inno provided a way to get these relics again, players were begging for it and complaining here all the time how unfair the system was for older players, or players who didn't get all of the relics needed, yadda yadda. Now, newer players or players that simply missed out have a shot again. And guess what? More complaining.

Perhaps there's a better way to execute this (like Soggy's Spire Shop idea), but... I'm just going to be thankful for the opportunity we've been provided, as it's been provided and hope for the best. I'm sure I won't get everything I want, but when does that ever happen? If I end up with one or two more evolved buildings then I come out ahead.

(Edited to insert link.)
I get that is sounds like folks complain no matter what but perhaps it is that there are players who are really struggling because everything is determined by RNG gods. I have one city that causes me no end of grief because, for whatever reason, I can't get enough spell frags. Without spell frags I can't craft battle boosters. Without battle boosters I can't get past the first floor of the spire which means I can't get time boosters, have next to no chance of collecting artifacts, winning genies or trade stations, getting more spell frags etc.

I have used all my teleport spells sending outdated culture buildings back to my inventory so I can shred them for frags, depleted 80% of my enchantments, artifacts from past events and even disenchanted PP and KP instants just to have enough frags to build battle boosters in the hopes the RNG gods will smile on me. I am incredibly grateful only one of my cities suffers such a shortfall.
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
I get that is sounds like folks complain no matter what but perhaps it is that there are players who are really struggling because everything is determined by RNG gods. I have one city that causes me no end of grief because, for whatever reason, I can't get enough spell frags. Without spell frags I can't craft battle boosters. Without battle boosters I can't get past the first floor of the spire which means I can't get time boosters, have next to no chance of collecting artifacts, winning genies or trade stations, getting more spell frags etc.

I have used all my teleport spells sending outdated culture buildings back to my inventory so I can shred them for frags, depleted 80% of my enchantments, artifacts from past events and even disenchanted PP and KP instants just to have enough frags to build battle boosters in the hopes the RNG gods will smile on me. I am incredibly grateful only one of my cities suffers such a shortfall.
This is just a suggestion but if you park your city in the one that is hurting, you maybe able to stock up on 5 day military boost buildings before you move on. Sometimes a small break changes the RNG's chances, you have to wait out the bad streak to get to the good streak.
 

The Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
I get that is sounds like folks complain no matter what but perhaps it is that there are players who are really struggling because everything is determined by RNG gods. I have one city that causes me no end of grief because, for whatever reason, I can't get enough spell frags. Without spell frags I can't craft battle boosters. Without battle boosters I can't get past the first floor of the spire which means I can't get time boosters, have next to no chance of collecting artifacts, winning genies or trade stations, getting more spell frags etc.

I have used all my teleport spells sending outdated culture buildings back to my inventory so I can shred them for frags, depleted 80% of my enchantments, artifacts from past events and even disenchanted PP and KP instants just to have enough frags to build battle boosters in the hopes the RNG gods will smile on me. I am incredibly grateful only one of my cities suffers such a shortfall.
What chapter are you in?
Do you insist on only ever fighting the Spire and/or tournaments?

Early to midgame especially can be all but impossible to do both the spire + tourny by only fighting, since you lack pretty much 90% of the main resources to do so effectively...
(ie; ALL 3* troops unlocked, incl the merc camp/training grounds ones, Simia + Timewarp to stretch out battle boosters, much easier troop production, etc, etc...)

With both my cities - one in WE's and the other in O&G's, I simply fully cater the spire to no more than end of Lv2 and save my troops for the tourny, again catering those fights that look beyond awful in their enemy troop set-ups.
 

Eudaemonia

Well-Known Member
What chapter are you in?
Do you insist on only ever fighting the Spire and/or tournaments?

Early to midgame especially can be all but impossible to do both the spire + tourny by only fighting, since you lack pretty much 90% of the main resources to do so effectively...
(ie; ALL 3* troops unlocked, incl the merc camp/training grounds ones, Simia + Timewarp to stretch out battle boosters, much easier troop production, etc, etc...)

With both my cities - one in WE's and the other in O&G's, I simply fully cater the spire to no more than end of Lv2 and save my troops for the tourny, again catering those fights that look beyond awful in their enemy troop set-ups.
The 'problem child' city has just started Ch 9 - Woodelves. I've been fighting the spire since I was a wee bairn and only ever catered the curly encounters so my city is built to fight, not cater. I have 3 T1, 2 T2 and 1 T3 so catering would be challenging. I've made a habit of keeping a couple of each manufactory in my inventory 'just in case' so maybe I could gradually shift my city's focus to a more balanced fighting/catering city by nerfing some armories to my inventory but I feel like my city would never be optimised because I've only ever put down battle AW (with the exception of PT and the trader to supplement goods via the wholesaler).

It's frustrating because in my tiny ch3 beta city I fight to half way through the second floor and complete 6 provinces in tourneys (75% catered). In my other cities ( ch 7) I fight almost exclusively and only cater battles with unacceptable losses. I rely heavily on battle boosters for this. The only city I'm forced to cater in is my ch 6 city which is in an 'awkward' stage so I can never train enough troops to replace the heavy losses - this city in also in a fs that doesn't prioritise spire so the rewards are meagre.

I completed the first stage of the spire this morning in my Ch 9 city and out of the 12,500 spell frags up for grabs I got 500. I might just stick to completing the first floor until the RNG gods see fit to give me more.
 

Eudaemonia

Well-Known Member
This is just a suggestion but if you park your city in the one that is hurting, you maybe able to stock up on 5 day military boost buildings before you move on. Sometimes a small break changes the RNG's chances, you have to wait out the bad streak to get to the good streak.
I appreciate the suggestion but without spell frags I won't be able to craft military buildings.

I'm crafting enchantments to shred which will get me around 360 spell frags a day if I focus on only producing them to shred. I think parking up for a while might be a good idea all the same. Without boosters I can still do the first level so that's something.
 

Nectar of the Gods

Well-Known Member
Eudaemonia, if you have won any teleport spells you can teleport a building you have built and no longer want (I'm not talking a crafted building but one from your buildings menu, whether culture, residence, mfg...whatever) and then disenchant it for spell frags. I know it isn't the same as winning them in the Spire, but it will give you another method of getting spell frags you may not have considered before.
 

Black watch

Well-Known Member
Okay, just finished reading 17 pages of notes... all said, there were some very fine ideas and thoughts expressed. Some emotion etc showing the typical frustrations with INNO... yeah, I'm pretty sure we ALL have those...
:)
So, now I'm checking out Soggy's idea of a Spire Shop... OOooooo... I kind of like that idea without really checking it out. Raises some serious solutions to issues...

Real quick, I'm at chapter 15... I'm boosted in Wood, Scrolls and Dust. I fight everything every week and have an 8,849 tourney average. Level 5 Ma that's working round the clock making CCs and I craft every time boost and pet food I can, WHEN they are offered( which IMO isn't often enough) I have over 500K in frags. 541 PPs of mixed sizes. I'm almost always finished with the spire Sunday morning.

I really ENJOY my Spire sets... they help in pop, mana, CCs, T-4 etc... not that I'm NEEDING that that much, but I do like the excess. It means I can offer unbalanced trades that benefit the person TAKING my trades. I have three sets placed and 14 full in storage (those will probably never see the light of day).

Okay, some ideas were expressed about the Spire sets stuck on scrolls. I liked what others had to say about changing that, but I think with INNO's track record, they'll balk at that because they'll have to make new code or something.
Perhaps they can put the framework from the Ferris Wheel Galore into the Spire Library. Have it adjusted to make whatever T-2 you wish to make.
Seems to me to be a reasonable and easy fix to a problem that some are faced with.

I too am tired of the Frags, they seem to come up a lot more for me that others... same with the the PPs.
I can get behind the ideas to scale the frags down the higher you go in the spire. That sounds like a reasonable response and scale to fit with multiple issues at hand. Chapter/Need/Ability/Availability etc.
Again, it seems like an easily address issue that INNO could deal with QUICKLY without costing them much in the way of time or money (money from players, that is unless I'm missing something).
Perhaps a scale made to reduce the amount of frags available if you have over 50,000 in stock, reduced again at 75,000 etc???. Something like that may be useful. Some sort of way-point situation to make that feasible.

I love the time boosts, can't get enough of them.
BUT, since this transformation into the currant Spire rewards system. I've had zero Genies, DA's or magic buildings come my way.
I've had few artifacts come into play too, but at my level, I don't usually place anything that I can't level up to 10 (my Polar Bear is the only building under ten). So overall, due to the changes, the enjoyment of going through the spire and it's costs have gone into the toilet. Getting PP's at the bosses is just annoying now if not irritating to a great degree and if I get them anywhere else, it's like getting frags.
I think some of those percentages should be adjusted, but finding the sweet spot that fits with the effort and cost of doing the spire should be addressed.

I've gotten to the point now of cringing as I see the losses I'm taking and of the time boosts I get on Friday- not really helping enough to counter the costs of doing the spire.
Like everything INNO, it seems like the overall mood of the game has firmly been established and carried to the ridiculous realm of SLOW EVERYTHING DOWN AND MAKE IT COST TOO MUCH TO SUSTAIN and then double it. ;)
And as far as I know, they still are using that stupid algorithm that penalizes you for having AWs, Expansions and owning a commuter car with 2.9 kids in the back seat for fighting in the tourney and spire. They need to fix THAT! Base it on squad size for pete's sake. Something smart, not something that penalizes you for growing your city (in a city building game!)

I wish they would just use there heads and actually fix what's needing to be fixed and take up some of these ideas folks have offered and pick one... There should be a balance and from what I know and see, it's almost impossible to balance something straight across when you're dealing with people starting out the game and trying to get a handle on it to someone at end game. It's just impossble to do that and make everyone happy. That in itself is impossible too.
But by scaling per chapter or by what's in your frag balance, and such- INNO can get some satisfaction in knowing most of the player will be a lot happier.
Rewards for effort should be reasonable and rewarding, so people are happy they did it and happy to do it again. The FA rewards are lacking. The spire rewards are tainted with an over abundance of Frags from many people. Balance needs to happen. Things need to be addressed and soon. I see two more whale in my neighborhood have given up and stopped playing. It's disheartening to say the least.
INNO just freakin' needs to get someone in place that can actually make a decision and do some fixes... the half-azzed INNO solutions are making more trouble than they fix.

Okay... I'm done... sorry for the rant... I'll just go polish up an old Singer Featherweight now...
 

The Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
The 'problem child' city has just started Ch 9 - Woodelves. I've been fighting the spire since I was a wee bairn and only ever catered the curly encounters so my city is built to fight, not cater. I have 3 T1, 2 T2 and 1 T3 so catering would be challenging. I've made a habit of keeping a couple of each manufactory in my inventory 'just in case' so maybe I could gradually shift my city's focus to a more balanced fighting/catering city by nerfing some armories to my inventory but I feel like my city would never be optimised because I've only ever put down battle AW (with the exception of PT and the trader to supplement goods via the wholesaler).

It's frustrating because in my tiny ch3 beta city I fight to half way through the second floor and complete 6 provinces in tourneys (75% catered). In my other cities ( ch 7) I fight almost exclusively and only cater battles with unacceptable losses. I rely heavily on battle boosters for this. The only city I'm forced to cater in is my ch 6 city which is in an 'awkward' stage so I can never train enough troops to replace the heavy losses - this city in also in a fs that doesn't prioritise spire so the rewards are meagre.

I completed the first stage of the spire this morning in my Ch 9 city and out of the 12,500 spell frags up for grabs I got 500. I might just stick to completing the first floor until the RNG gods see fit to give me more.
Stop fighting the Spire and just cater the thing. Save your troops for the tourney.

Depending on your AW's, I'd also look at dropping the real turds such as Endless Ex, Bell Tower/Lighthouse, the Bumble Bee, Tome of Secrets, Watchtower, etc... those things especially when leveled will really add on the pain and suffering to the formula. :(
Not to mention, their effects overall are pretty pants, so not really missing out on much... (though there's some argument for the Bumble Bee getting much better late game?!?)

As well, I personally feel it's also *NEVER* worth doing the 3rd floor at this point, since the costs massively out weigh the potential benefits... get your shot at a Magic Workshop and then pick-up (hopefully) the silver trophy reward.


Our main problem from Ch3 - Ch12 or so is simply that we don't have the combat capable troops to counter the enemy *always* being at 3*.
At least by the time you hit Ch13+14, you're now unlocking the 3* versions of your specialist troops, and Ch14 especially brings some much needed muscle as both the Ork Strats + Blossom Mages get their 3* promote.
And in Amunii prior to the Ork/Blossom buffs, we also get at least the 2* upgrade for the Frogs, which is a huge boost for Humans since their Mortar is basically near-unusable garbo.

My own Ch9. city is currently running;
3x T1
3x T2
3x T3
Spire + Harvest Festival + Carnival sets. (Scrolls + 10-12k of each T1 + 26k elixir/day)
Lv10 Fire Chicken + Lv10 Brown Bear + Lv10 Wise Golum (in O&G stats still for the added T3 generation) + Lv10 Witch's Hut
3x Ork Camps + 2x Ork Ships + a couple Halloween Ork producers for roughly 5k Ork production/day

I can keep my resources steadily growing at least a bit each week, and complete Lv2 Spire + fight about 1700-1800 pts/week in the tourny.
Nothing astronomical sure, but it's a good slow and steady way to keep all your various resources in the positive territory vs. having to constantly juggle things and blowing 100's of hours of time instants/other resources every week to just keep up. ;)
 

Kawhi is a Raptor

Active Member
Real quick, I'm at chapter 15... I'm boosted in Wood, Scrolls and Dust. I fight everything every week and have an 8,849 tourney average. Level 5 Ma that's working round the clock making CCs and I craft every time boost and pet food I can, WHEN they are offered( which IMO isn't often enough) I have over 500K in frags.

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