[Archived 02/2020] News from Beta

[DeletedUser9601]

kind of mixed on this some good some bad mostly I will need to replace most of the culture. I am staring wood elves in about 2 weeks. mostly i have been going for the big culture not really interested in buildings with population and poor culture.

If you're going into Woodelves, you're going to be ditching most of your culture anyways, in favor of culture/mana buildings.

 

[samidodamage]

kind of mixed on this some good some bad mostly I will need to replace most of the culture. I am staring wood elves in about 2 weeks. mostly i have been going for the big culture not really interested in buildings with population and poor culture.

You're at a good place in the game for this to happen. I ended up getting rid of 90% of my culture buildings in favor of culture/mana buildings anyway in Woodelves. The Weeping Willows (5x5) give 3500 culture and offer the desperately needed mana. Didn't take long and I demolished almost everything, including buildings I liked for aesthetics alone. Was able to keep my Winter set for the Orc vortex production, but should probably be looking at replacing that with a Heroes' Forge. I do also get some coins, supplies and goods from it, so I'll have to check out the goods; coins/supplies don't matter to me that much. Kept the cute little unicorns, but don't depend on them for either culture or pop (one of them is a chapter 2 unicorn, lol; others are around that).
edit: ninja'd by @Tedious

 

[kctanzen]

I'm confused. kctanzen, do you mean that the buildings you have will change to current chapter values? I haven't seen this anywhere. Granted, the only bldgs I have that will be impacted are a couple cute unicorns and a rainbow flower cage, so haven't looked in-depth. But I presume my chapter 2 unicorn will remain a chapter 2 unicorn unless I either win one of these future enchantments in the 10th tournament chest or premium purchase one (with diamonds). I'm currently in chapter 9 Woodelves.

If I reviewed the list Soggy provided and my current city buildings correctly, I will lose 182 population (didn't count up the culture).
Assumption being the existing buildings convert to current chapter without any additional [input] effort from me AND they don't need road connections unless they already needed them.

This probably stems from my being in the hardest hit chapter (as indicated by Pherryl) of the dreaded orcs and goblins.

I won't drop into negative population with my current build - and several of my existing constructions are already on the tear out list as needed for upgrades elsewhere - so I guess this is just a part of the cost of doing business.

I'm *still* not enamored of post implementation changes in a live environment, however.

I had the impression that existing buildings would morph from whatever chapter they had originally been awarded to the current chapter.
It seems I may have misinterpreted that and if so, it is a *much* worse impact for my existing city build = will be negative population by a good stretch if the rainbow unicorn and candy cane trees are downgraded before some kind of balancing option is available = 485 population hit, if I did the maths correctly.

If that is true, I'm really fortunate to be well on my way to finishing my targeted upgrades to factories!
I have about 1200 population in buildings that I have earmarked for removal specifically in support of scrolls factories upgrades when / if needed -- I suppose those could also be used to offset a negative population change as well

 

[samidodamage]

@kctanzen
Sorry, but I think it's likely you'll take that pop hit unless they make some changes between beta and live. With the post from the beta moderator saying they're looking into the pop thing, there could be some changes that will make it less painful.
Just remember, even if you go negative pop AND culture, your city will still function. You won't be able to build/upgrade things until you have the necessary pop/culture, but your factories and such will continue to operate. So, if you finish your upgrades to those factories before the update, you can still produce your goods while figuring out how to adapt your strategy. I've heard of players putting in a bunch of lvl 1 residences to get the pop they need to do an upgrade, then delete the houses afterward, going negative until they decide to focus on upgrades to bring it back up. (I'm too much of a *nervous nellie* to try it on purpose myself, lol)

 

[StarLoad]

As a player just starting O & G and not happy in that situation by itself , this could be a killer. However, I had already weaned off the pop/culture of the past events of 2015/16 and I personally wont be hurt. but several in my fellowship will feel the effects and will be in the red when this happens, in both fellowships on two worlds I am warning everyone to be ready.

Now I will say this idea is one of the worst I have heard from Inno, and without some adjustment or recourse you will have many players again waking up to Neg pop/culture, only because they player the game and participated in events that you, Inno, created, managed and advertised. No, you may think this is just a minor thing but I feel you will find otherwise.

Oh and you should also hire someone to review your advertising, in-game marketing and labeling. For you are using the following wording all over your game and this has the potential to bite your ass. Look for the wording "Increases your culture permanently" or "Increases your population permanently" Because the word permanently happens to have very specific legal meanings.

Ed

 

[Risen Malchiah]

In case nobody has asked yet, why can't the original values be left as is and the later chapters just be smaller increases so the chapters that didn't exist when the buildings were introduced aren't overvalued? Isn't that the rationale for these changes anyway? To keep the buildings from being overpowered if upgraded to halflings and elementals?

 

[SoggyShorts]

In case nobody has asked yet, why can't the original values be left as is and the later chapters just be smaller increases so the chapters that didn't exist when the buildings were introduced aren't overvalued? Isn't that the rationale for these changes anyway? To keep the buildings from being overpowered if upgraded to halflings and elementals?

The buildings that are being changed are getting a buff in chapters 10+, so I don't think that's the reason at all.
The only thing I can figure is that inno felt these buildings were a little OP, but it was fine because they were quickly outgrown, and now if unchanged they will stay OP all the time.
Really, I don't think there are that many players getting blueprints in those low-mid chapters anyways, so IMO the "balance" isn't needed.

Edit: Not to be too cynical, but perhaps the reasoning is a little more ugly... The announcement said that buildings can be upgraded with diamonds, and blueprints, so nerfing something in the mid levels is perhaps to entice you to upgrade them all the way as you progress?

 

[Risen Malchiah]

Not to be too cynical, but perhaps the reasoning is a little more ugly... The announcement said that buildings can be upgraded with diamonds, and blueprints, so nerfing something in the mid levels is perhaps to entice you to upgrade them all the way as you progress?

I can see that as a reason, though I wonder how much it would actually work. Some players perhaps will spend diamonds, but other players who may already be struggling in orcs might feel even less motivated to continue playing. As it is, player retention is very much about how the players motivate each other. I've seen many players who appeared on the verge of quitting until I or someone else provided advice and encouragement to break through whatever bottleneck was hindering them. Orcs is already a tough chapter culture-wise and I can't imagine doing it over again *without* the benefit of all the great event buildings I had access to.

 

[WolfSinger]

Imported my city into Elvenarchitect using Elvenstats and making sure it went into the Beta set-up. This showed me the adjusted values for my event items. I tend to switch stuff out and only have 9 items that are being affected by this. The rest of my event buildings are staying the same.

Affected are:
1 x Chapter 11 Candy Cane Unicorn (gains 190 culture) / 2 x Chapter 9 Frozen Unicorns (gains 140 culture each) / 2 x Chapter 11 Frozen Unicorns (gains 220 culture each) / 3 x Chapter 8 Rainbow Flower Cages (drop 47 culture and 47 pop each) / 1 x Chapter 9 Tower of the Winter King (drops 2400 culture and gains 400)

Overall I'm losing 1631 in culture and gaining 259 in population.

 

[Deborah M]

I can see that as a reason, though I wonder how much it would actually work. Some players perhaps will spend diamonds, but other players who may already be struggling in orcs might feel even less motivated to continue playing. As it is, player retention is very much about how the players motivate each other. I've seen many players who appeared on the verge of quitting until I or someone else provided advice and encouragement to break through whatever bottleneck was hindering them. Orcs is already a tough chapter culture-wise and I can't imagine doing it over again *without* the benefit of all the great event buildings I had access to.

If it is something worthwhile then I'm thinking I would probably spend diamonds on my must keep ones. Especially my first Phoenix Sadly, I haven't heard that one mentioned

BTW, I came very close to quitting when I was in Orcs. Not because of the challenge but because they made so much of my city so ugly The only other time I came that close was when the first FA was broken but Inno did set that mostly right after a long wait.

 

[StarLoad]

No offense to you players in chapter 8 and above, but the damage done is to players items from chapter 4 thru 7 and its great if you are past it. Telling a player that WON an Father CC or a Venar's rocks in chapter 5 and is using it to save residence space and now is losing 800 pop for playing by the rules of the game. Anyone can read the chart provided by soggy and see what players are getting shafted in this upgrade.

Edited to add

Oh and those players I speak of are not represented here, they have no regular voice here and only speak up when the "deification hits the rotary impeller"

 

[samidodamage]

No offense to you players in chapter 8 and above, but the damage done is to players items from chapter 4 thru 7 and its great if you are past it.

(bolding is mine)
I'm in Chapter 9, and I don't necessarily disagree with you overall, but...
I think we all tend to get caught up in where we are right now and how these things impact us. Orc level event buildings were already less powerful than any other chapter, and the nerf is hitting them hard as well. As an example:

I don't see how it's great for the players in chapter 11 who won 10 Winter Stars early in Orcs and are now losing 4300 population.*
*yes, I get it's a bit out there to keep those buildings after reaching the need for mana and seeds, but that would be a bunch of extra residences needed if they kept the Stars after the nerf. Getting rid of them now would mean they'd have to replace 12,300 population. A player at that same level now, but who won them at the end of Fairies, the nerf would remove 3300 pop and selling them off would remove 10,000. That seems like a big difference.

I don't have any buildings that are impacted by this other than some unicorns that I only keep because I like them; one is a chapter 2. Maybe that makes it easier for me to see the impact this change will have regardless of where players are in the game now.

 

[StarLoad]

(bolding is mine)
I'm in Chapter 9, and I don't necessarily disagree with you overall, but...
I think we all tend to get caught up in where we are right now and how these things impact us. Orc level event buildings were already less powerful than any other chapter, and the nerf is hitting them hard as well. As an example:

I don't see how it's great for the players in chapter 11 who won 10 Winter Stars early in Orcs and are now losing 4300 population.*
*yes, I get it's a bit out there to keep those buildings after reaching the need for mana and seeds, but that would be a bunch of extra residences needed if they kept the Stars after the nerf. Getting rid of them now would mean they'd have to replace 12,300 population. A player at that same level now, but who won them at the end of Fairies, the nerf would remove 3300 pop and selling them off would remove 10,000. That seems like a big difference.

I don't have any buildings that are impacted by this other than some unicorns that I only keep because I like them; one is a chapter 2. Maybe that makes it easier for me to see the impact this change will have regardless of where players are in the game now.

I can completely agree that for a player to lose 4300 pop is just as bad, and I do not mean to imply that just because you are past O&G that there is no negative impact. I am more speaking to the higher percentage of players that will likely be affected by this change without fair warning, just as happened with the GA change.

 

[Mykan]

As with most games the warning is by monitoring beta or participating in it. It is normal for games to re balance things and even without this change we had already figured out the balance was different for newer buildings.

The change will be good for the long run of the game, but painful in the short-term. The main key to the issue for me is not the fact they are re-balancing the buildings, but is the maths for that balance that is used on all items going forward right or are the gaps just too big.

 

[mucksterme]

This discussion is triggering my ptsd from the great GA massacre of 2017 :'(

later followed by the demolition of the Crystal Lighthouse.

they do these things every few months and you just have to get over it

or at least that's what Ashrem tells me

personally I'm still not over the Lighthouse deal

 

[Ashrem]

they do these things every few months and you just have to get over it

or at least that's what Ashrem tells me

To be more accurate, I think I'd say something like "Once it's deployed to live, there's no upside to getting stressed out. Before it's deployed to live is the time to fight it tooth-and-nail."

 

[DeletedUser3602]

I just read that there's another FS Adventure starting tomorrow in Beta. Did I understand correctly that it won't have the 3 new badges (Gaining Gold, Training Units and Spending KP in AW's)?
Why not?? I thought the feedback on those 3 new badges was positive overall...

 

[Ashrem]

I just read that there's another FS Adventure starting tomorrow in Beta. Did I understand correctly that it won't have the 3 new badges (Gaining Gold, Training Units and Spending KP in AW's)?
Why not?? I thought the feedback on those 3 new badges was positive overall...

They haven't said why, but I'd guess they are still testing, to figure out which one gets better participation.

Even though it's an older version, I think the quest cycling will still be improved, so ti should be a little better than the previous time they ran this version.

 

[DeletedUser3602]

Hmmm, I read the quest system is still a work in progress and that they're not there yet, so I don't think it will be very different from what we already know. But maybe you know more than I do.
Anyway, too bad they removed those 3 Badges. I won't have any space to build extra factories or workshops, so I was hoping to contribute to the FSA by gaining coins, training units and donating kp's. Guess not.

 

[Ashrem]

Hmmm, I read the quest system is still a work in progress and that they're not there yet, so I don't think it will be very different from what we already know. But maybe you know more than I do.

I don't think I do. But it seems unlikely they'd undo the fixes they've made to the interface, just because they're running an older version of the quest requirements.