[Archived 02/2020] News from Beta

[Jackluyt]

I have some screenshots and info about the Spire of Eternity, if you would like to share it with friends and neighbors who do not have a Beta city:

https://tinyurl.com/y67w59vf

I will add more information and comments as we discover new things.

 

[Laochra]

I have some screenshots and info about the Spire of Eternity, if you would like to share it with friends and neighbors who do not have a Beta city:

https://tinyurl.com/y67w59vf

I will add more information and comments as we discover new things.

I have started playing it in my Beta city & I like it! The last encounter's treasure in level 2 has a chance of giving diamonds!

 

[The Unbeliever]

Going by the comments thus far on beta...
Congrats Inno! You've managed to create a new feature even more rage-inducing & beyond asininely stupid than that pile of rank, steaming rodent-gak you call Fellowship Adventures!

 

[DeletedUser]

Going by the comments thus far on beta...
Congrats Inno! You've managed to create a new feature even more rage-inducing & beyond asininely stupid than that pile of rank, steaming rodent-gak you call Fellowship Adventures!

This has as much validity as a movie review from someone who hasn't even seen the movie they're reviewing. I had a run-through of it this morning, and had 0 problems.

 

[DeletedUser5521]

This is my feedback I posted on Beta Forum after my first experience with the Spire:

I just did all the fights until the 3 hour cooldown. I think I will stop there until changes have been implemented and some rebalancing occurs. I lost more troops in these (maybe 9? fights) than I usually lose in a first round of a tourney, and I usually do 13-16 provinces in each round of the tourneys (with 4 encounters in each). My city is designed for fighting. I am in Amuni and have all the military AWs available to me at this point leveled at least to 6, some to 11. I have a level 10 Fire Phoenix, but I did not feed him before this, as Pet Food actually doesn't show up often in my Crafting Lab and I'm down to just 5 bags of the stuff and gonna keep them for the tourney. I have a good healthy army and all 3 training facilities at max level (to my chapter) training constantly. I usually spend Saturday after tourney's end, Sunday, and Monday retraining my troops for the next tourney (really good prizes) and can't see me willingly sending anymore of my brave dudes and dudettes into these massacres for ..... wait for it ....... coin rains?? supply instants??? really????

It is the first dry run, so to speak, so I expect there will be a lot of changes before it goes Live. As we all know, change isn't always necessarily for the better with INNO, but I am an optomist, so I am hoping they will take much of the feedback under advisement and deliver something that can be enjoyed by many more than are enjoying it now in it's testing phase. But that's what Beta is for...and I can be patient while it morphs into what it will be

 

[The Unbeliever]

It doesn't take rocket science to figure out how badly slowed this thing is though... and even by Elvenar's low standards, they've made a royal turd out of this first attempt!

Here's some thoughts;
- STOP WITH THE OBNOXIOUSLY & ASINIELY MASSIVE SQUAD SIZES!!
Even a decent number of end-game players can't keep up with the attrition of just the first level, let alone try and do the both the Spire + Tournaments on a weekly basis!
(and most people will choose the regular tournament, since at least you know 100% what you're winning vs. Elvenar's awful RNG chances!)

- Likewise, negotiation costs need to be doable while keeping in mind that the average player will be using goods for research + weekly tournament participation as well
If you need 75-80% of your weekly production just to do 2 levels of SoE, then the feature is crap.

- Lv.1 should be "easy mode". No 3* enemy units, and only a few 2* showing up in the latter 1/4 of the map (you want to get people hooked into this feature, not outright terrify them! >.< )
Lv.2 can introduce some 3* enemies in the latter half, and by Lv.3, everything can be 'challenge mode' with full-on 3* enemies

- Lv.1 rewards can generally suck. It's level 1 and only the last few encounters need any kind of even 'semi-decent' rewards... as an example, the final tower on Lv.1 of FoE's Guild Expedition is: small chance @25 diamonds, small chance @premium deco, chance @20 current age goods, chance @basic production building, chance @GotSG/FotA/Victory Tower (aka: the booby prize!)
So yeah, nothing special there at all really, and would be about the equivalent of the Spire having a small chance at the dias, and then larger odds of say 5x 2hr time boosters/3x CC's/15 kp instant.
But Lv.2 rewards should trade out the more of the coin/supply instants for things like time boosters/kp instants and give some better odds at decent rewards. (ie: GE's final encounter on Lv.2 has a small chance at a Premium Residential building of your current age!)
By Lv.3, the rewards really need to reflect the difficulty, otherwise most people will just ignore this feature for the weekly tournaments which don't bankrupt you within 10min of playing.

- Once the negotiation feature is available, please, please please keep in mind, We. Don't. Have. A. Friend's Tavern. Here!!
So please, if/once you end up with 7-10 choices, we really need 4 turns vs. the standard 3 to make things doable... especially if you're going to demand 10000's of coins & supplies and 1000's of goods/sentient goods/mana per single round attempt!!


This really shouldn't be anything remotely this difficult to figure out, but apparently Elvenar devs don't play their own game.

 

[DeletedUser]

Agreed, @Aramina, and I think it would have been great if "Convince" had been available for this first test run, but I understand why it's not.

@The Unbeliever This is just the first test run. That's all. You're not on Beta, I imagine you haven't read what the community mod posted this morning, so you don't know what kind of feedback the developers are asking us for. This first test run is open until Friday. After doing what needs to be done, there will be another test run. There's a lot of work to do, so I think anyone saying that "the sky is falling" is only looking at half of the weather report.

Basically, don't sweat it until it actually goes Live. If they've done bugger-all with it despite all of the feedback, then I'll quite happily be the first one to call it bilgesnipe slobber.

 

[The Unbeliever]

The thing is, they already have a solid blueprint of what this needs to be from FoE's Guild Expedition. That they've mucked it up so royally, even for just a first 'trial run' is mind boggling...

At the very least, the idiot who thought it was a great idea to have encounters with roughly 4x a player's actual squad size just needs to be banned from ever using a dev computer again.

 

[DeletedUser]

@The Unbeliever...

Please, go to Beta, start an account there, get your city to Chapter 3 (since the Spire is not open to Chapter 1 or 2 cities), and help test this feature so that you can give your feedback there. Here, it does no one any good.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

Agreed, @Aramina, and I think it would have been great if "Convince" had been available for this first test run, but I understand why it's not.

@The Unbeliever This is just the first test run. That's all. You're not on Beta, I imagine you haven't read what the community mod posted this morning, so you don't know what kind of feedback the developers are asking us for. This first test run is open until Friday. After doing what needs to be done, there will be another test run. There's a lot of work to do, so I think anyone saying that "the sky is falling" is only looking at half of the weather report.

Basically, don't sweat it until it actually goes Live. If they've done bugger-all with it despite all of the feedback, then I'll quite happily be the first one to call it bilgesnipe slobber.

Amen. And even the first run, don't expect them to perfectly balance cost vs. reward. It might take a few iterations. It certainly did in FSAs.

I will be very curious how the balance comes out. Because as of now, if you focus troops on tournaments, you can be looking at 11KP per 5-province round (5KP at 2 stars; 6 KP at 5 stars). So rewards are going to need to be pretty strong. If I'm spending the same number of troops to either do 20 provinces to 5 stars (and pick up 200KP, relics and instants) OR I'm spending those troops in Spire to get a bunch of crummy instants, spell fragments, and a 10% chance at a magic residence, I don't foresee much time in the Spire.

Also, I might be in the minority, but the "negotiate the resource" mini-game has me pretty excited for those old standardized test, SAT-style logic questions.

One question - have they made fights consist of enemy comps different than the usual "relic comps" (e.g., a "Steel" fight with HM as primary units, with some mages and LM sprinkled in)? I appreciate that Wave 1, Wave 2 and Wave 3 may have different comps, but are they going to be all "relic comps"? Because if yes, it might be stupidly painful to have to pick a unit comp that beat a Steel Comp, then a Scrolls Comp, then a Gems Comp, for e.g.

 

[DeletedUser5521]

Elvenar Developers often remind me of kids testing their bounderies with their parents lol. I picture a scenario much like this:

Kid (Devs): "Can I do this?" (some massively extremely incredibly horrible idea)
Parents (Player Base): "NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Kid (Devs): "How about this?" (a massively extremely horrible idea)
Parents (Player Base): "NOOOO!!!!!!!!!!"
Kid (Devs): "This?" (an extremely horrible idea)
Parents (Player Base): "NOO!!!!"
Kid (Devs): "What about this?" (a horrible idea)
Parents (Player Base): "NO!"
Kid (Devs): "This?" (a bad idea)
Parents (Player Base): "Sigh. Fine."
Kid (Devs): Sweet! Success!"

 

[DeletedUser]

@Tedious I'm hoping the rewards will match the effort expended, because I have to agree with you...it won't be worth much if otherwise. The Spire will just be another bit of pretty artwork on the countryside while it's there. As for the fighting, I'll have to get back to you on that...I haven't really had a proper run yet. I've got time tomorrow, I'm hoping to get some quality time in there.

@Aramina I believe you're spot on. Sounds like me and one of our cats. ("Can I eat this? How about this? This?")

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

@Tedious I'm hoping the rewards will match the effort expended

If FA is any indication, I won't be holding my breath on that...

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

For everyone not on Beta, or on Beta but not doing the Spire, the Announcement thread for it had a bunch of new info added to it tonight:

https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index....enes-the-spire-of-eternity.20102/#post-146420

 

[DeletedUser]

If FA is any indication, I won't be holding my breath on that...

Ha! The same can be said for Guild Expedition, but I do like to keep a positive thought every time I start one.



That positive thought does get lonely from time to time.

 

[The Unbeliever]

@The Unbeliever...

Please, go to Beta, start an account there, get your city to Chapter 3 (since the Spire is not open to Chapter 1 or 2 cities), and help test this feature so that you can give your feedback there. Here, it does no one any good.

I honestly would, but I already play in 2 cities here + 2 cities in FoE. I simply don't have the time to add another city.

But just because we don't play on beta, doesn't mean we can't still offer advice when things are glaringly out of whack.
ie: why the pointless nerfing of the Stonehenge building? It was already mediocre at 24hrs, but now it's 48hrs and -1kp?!

For the SoE, again, why can't beta players help voice our concerns?
ie: why in gods name are we using 4x our squad size? We can't possibly ever gain enough troops for both SoE + tournament when many of us already struggle to keep the troops flowing for tournaments!


A lot of what's horrendously wrong with this first 'trial run' is so glaringly obvious that it's outright shocking Inno is even asking for feedback!
...but then, we're also talking about the team that poop'ed out Fellowship MISadventures and thinks we actually like them, so...

 

[DeletedUser]

For the SoE, again, why can't beta players help voice our concerns?

Because it counts more coming directly from you. Otherwise, quite honestly, it's all second-hand. However, there is something I can do that might help. I've posted your quote in the feedback thread.

A lot of what's horrendously wrong with this first 'trial run' is so glaringly obvious that it's outright shocking Inno is even asking for feedback!

Seriously? What do you think Beta is? Part of the purpose of Beta is to give the developers feedback. Whether or not they take it is another thing entirely.

 

[The Unbeliever]

Because it counts more coming directly from you. Otherwise, quite honestly, it's all second-hand. However, there is something I can do that might help. I've posted your quote in the feedback thread.

And I thank you very much for doing so.

Seriously? What do you think Beta is? Part of the purpose of Beta is to give the developers feedback. Whether or not they take it is another thing entirely.

Yes, beta's role is to test stuff out and give feedback.

BUT!

Some of the stuff going on is just so damned obvious that even the most slowed developer shouldn't need to be told things are out of whack...
ie: someone mentioned that in just 1 fight, they lost something crazy like 20k+ troops only to get a coin/supply rain instant or some fragments?!lol.
Only a complete idiot needs to be told the obvious in this scenario... (troops costs are beyond unsustainable & the reward is an insult vs. the cost required to obtain it).
And another player mentioned that they're encountering squad sizes that are akin to going up to province 80!! in the regular tournament.

What Inno have basically done here is to create a new chess game, but the player only get pawns + 4 knights & has to protect 2 kings, while the AI gets an entire army of queens & bishops.
And if the player somehow wins, then all they get is a swift kick the junk and a stale piece of cake.

 

[DeletedUser]

And I thank you very much for doing so.

You're welcome, no problem at all.

Some of the stuff going on is just so damned obvious that even the most slowed developer shouldn't need to be told things are out of whack...

Granted. Trust me, I know. When I had my first encounter and saw my troop size, I laughed. Even on the map they're not that big. Regardless, I couldn't get through the first level. When I took my secondary Beta in, she couldn't get passed the first encounter, and she's nearly Chapter 4 (Edit: 5 actually, I was tired). I know there will be a lot of tweaking before it's finally ready for Live release, but I kinda have to cringe. I have three new Betas that I'm shaping for specific things. The older of the three is going to be a fighter, but honestly, at this point I can't imagine how a Chapter 3 is going to get through even the first few encounters, especially if they are a new player.


You mentioned cake...is it chocolate?

 

[The Unbeliever]

Granted. Trust me, I know. When I had my first encounter and saw my troop size, I laughed. Even on the map they're not that big. Regardless, I couldn't get through the first level. When I took my secondary Beta in, she couldn't get passed the first encounter, and she's nearly Chapter 4. I know there will be a lot of tweaking before it's finally ready for Live release, but I kinda have to cringe. I have three new Betas that I'm shaping for specific things. The older of the three is going to be a fighter, but honestly, at this point I can't imagine how a Chapter 3 is going to get through even the first few encounters, especially if they are a new player.

Honestly, I'm more than a little disheartened by Muf-Muf's reply on the beta forums that they're not actively looking into the squad size complaints for the time being... (yes, I've read through the entire thread - I like lurking in the shadows!)

Seems like the 2 unanimous complaints thus far are;
1. Squads sizes are ridiculously huge - like even the hardcore military-focused players are generally having trouble keeping up!
2. The "play at your own pace" is a bold-faced lie at this point due to the time restraints on the various doors to move forwards... (iirc, Soggy's already mathed out that even w/6 day run, you need a pretty specific schedule to get all the way through)

I want really, really, really love this new feature honestly - I ADORE FoE's weekly Guild Expeditions!
But right now the SoE has literally taken every aspect of GE and tried to make it nearly/entirely unplayable!lol.

You mentioned cake...is it chocolate?

At the moment, that's definitely not chocolate topping that cake.