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[Archived 02/2020] News from Beta

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DeletedUser9601

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Think about it.
Inno releases a new feature:
-Does it make sense that the feature is immediately conquered by a Chapter 3 player, let alone even the top 25% of the player base? Do they make any money from that? Especially when you consider the rewards include diamonds, magic buildings, and new prestige buildings?
-Does it make sense that a Chapter 3 player (or again, even a top 25% player) should be able to readily progress to the end on launch, with Inno knowing that the top 1% of players (that have millions of goods for catering, and 100+ levels of military AWs to boost their troops) will be able to basically farm the best possible rewards with no effort, not to mention a slew of other solid rewards along the way to the 25th waypoint?
-Does it make sense for the developers to set the difficulty at "Very Easy" in beta, only to have to ramp up the difficulty when its clear that Spire becomes a loot pinata? How does the community respond to that? Compared to Inno graciously announcing that Spire just got 50% easier once it hits live?
-Does it make sense from a "testing" standpoint to have easy encounters that everyone blows through on their first try? Or difficult encounters that push players to test the edges of what is possible, and require players to test encounters 5, 10, 15 times? What results in better "testing"?

When tournaments launched, no one was hitting 10 chests except the top 1 or 2 FSes for each world. It was fine. People figured out how to get better at tournaments, coordinate participation, and achieve 10 chests (or 8 or 9). Plus power creep helped solve this.
When FSAs launched, no one was competing for the top prizes except the top 5-10 FSes for each world. It was fine. Some people joined FSes devoted to winning FSAs; other FSes got much better at coordination and planning.
When every chapter has launched since Halflings, everyone complains that unless you have a blue city or have 10+ premium expansions, you can't progress. It was fine. Theorycrafting got better, and techlocked players got better with AW growth.

Listen, we all agree that whatever Spire looks like, the rewards need to match the effort/resources required. But you're speculating about a chess game of pawns vs queens based on beta server hearsay of an unfinished product. If this hits live, and it sucks, Inno will know. They can track participation pretty easily. I don't think they've devoted resources, artwork, time and money to Spire for it to only go unused.
 

DeletedUser5521

Guest
-Does it make sense from a "testing" standpoint to have easy encounters that everyone blows through on their first try? Or difficult encounters that push players to test the edges of what is possible, and require players to test encounters 5, 10, 15 times? What results in better "testing"?
That would be fine, if they gave us the army to test it with. Losing more dudes and dudettes in 9 battles than I can make back in a day had me saying "I'll sit the next round out, thanks.." :oops:
 

DeletedUser

Guest
(yes, I've read through the entire thread - I like lurking in the shadows!;))

Yeah, I knew that was you. :D

(iirc, Soggy's already mathed out that even w/6 day run, you need a pretty specific schedule to get all the way through)

Yeah, I saw that (props @SoggyShorts). Made my head hurt.

If this hits live, and it sucks, Inno will know. They can track participation pretty easily. I don't think they've devoted resources, artwork, time and money to Spire for it to only go unused.

I don't have a counter to that (yes, yes I do), but I haven't had coffee yet and I'm trying to remain optimistic. :oops:
 

The Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
@Tedious: There's a huge difference between releasing something so easy that even a blind, dysfunctional monkey can breeze through, vs. going to strait 'Lunatic Trolling Mode' difficulty...

Just look at FoE's Guild Expeditions, which this is a direct porting of BTW!
- GE unlocks in Iron Age. (equivalent of Ch.2)
- Lv1 encounters are ALL against your previous age enemies. (ie: in Iron Age, you will only face Bronze Age units on Lv1)
- Lv2 encounters are a mix of previous + current age units, with the final 4 encounters being 2-wave battles as well.
- Lv3 encounters are almost entirely against current age units, and 2-wave battles show up by the 9th encounter AND enemies also begin to gain atk+def% bonuses too!
- Lv4 is literally the game's "lunatic mode" of difficulty. Like, you need all the main military AW's, and get them leveled up to 30-40+ if you want to even attempt to fight it.
Meanwhile, on the negotiating side of things, you literally *need* at least 200-300 of each of your current + previous age goods AND have the extra turn boost active from your Friend's Tavern!
(ie: through Lv's 2-3 only the final encounter will demand 3 of each good per try at negotiating, while on Lv4, you need and average of 4-5 of each good per try at negotiating, with the final encounter demanding iirc, 8 of each good per try!)

Now, even a player who has just unlocked the feature and are running their very first excursion, can readily complete Lv1 with 0 military boosts and just some basic goods production...
It's not 'easy' by any means for such a player, but it *IS* doable with some effort and the liberal use of a few brain cells. :p

As for the rewards?
- Lv1 IS 95% crap. Even early game players won't get much out of it beyond coins/supplies and 4 'free' random units of their age... the final tower on Lv1 gives a small chance at 25 diamonds, while the other 3 towers can each provide a tiny chance at just 10 diamonds.
Overall, this is more or less the 'tutorial/easy mode' level.

- Lv2 is still generally lackluster, with plenty of coin/supply rewards, but there are also more chances at decent rewards like kp's, plus exclusive buildings like Ritual Flames and/or a Tribal Square sometimes on the final big tower reward.
Also, because it's expected that your troop losses get a bit higher here, the unit reward encounters now give 2 units each.

- Lv3 is where the 'good' rewards are, and until players have all their high leveled military AW's, it's a hard slog. (much more so on troops, but negotiating can also get expensive too without Chateaux Frontenac boosted quest rewards...)
And just like in Lv2, here in Lv3, you also earn a few more troops for your army, with the unit encounters rewarding 3 units each.
The final encounter here typically holds not just 100 diamonds, but also mixes in reno kits, fountain of youth, sacred sky watch and the greatly sought after terrace farm.

- Lv4 is the 'gold mine'... everything is a 50/50 shot between 2 possible rewards, with plenty of diamonds, kp's, special buildings & reno/1-up kits in the offerings. (coin & supplies still show up here and there too, so the odd booby prize still exists!)


So yes, you can produce a SoE that covers ALL levels of difficulty if you wanted to, instead of just outright trolling the player base with a nearly impossible challenge that's seemingly been designed to just outright **** people off!
a) Let Lv1 of the spire be easy, but give crap.
b) Let Lv2 be moderately difficult, and have a shot at 1 or 2 really good rewards
c) Let Lv3 be 'hard/challenge' mode, and give the best rewards.

Now no one is left out... early game players won't yet be able to touch the higher levels, but things like the coin/supply rains & spell fragments are much more valuable to a player with a very limited inventory.
Middle weight players should be able to get through Lv2 without breaking their banks (both troops & goods!), while having good odds of picking up 1-2 valuable items. (ie: a Magic Residence!)
End game players with their high-powered AW's should be able to plow through everything, so that we can eventually introduce the utterly brutal Lv4 which can then be set at the current insane difficulty level of this initial test run!:p
 

Risen Malchiah

Well-Known Member
a) Let Lv1 of the spire be easy, but give crap.
b) Let Lv2 be moderately difficult, and have a shot at 1 or 2 really good rewards
c) Let Lv3 be 'hard/challenge' mode, and give the best rewards.

Now no one is left out... early game players won't yet be able to touch the higher levels, but things like the coin/supply rains & spell fragments are much more valuable to a player with a very limited inventory.
Middle weight players should be able to get through Lv2 without breaking their banks (both troops & goods!), while having good odds of picking up 1-2 valuable items. (ie: a Magic Residence!)
End game players with their high-powered AW's should be able to plow through everything, so that we can eventually introduce the utterly brutal Lv4 which can then be set at the current insane difficulty level of this initial test run!:p
@Tedious Here's the key bits for ya.

Basically, his contention is that the FoE version ramps up the difficulty from easy to insane and Elvenar's version should be similar rather than being difficult from the start with meh rewards until the end.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I reached my breaking point last night, and I'm not doing any more of the sequential quests. I'll do the Dailies, I still want to level my Stonehenge of course, but I've had it with the monotony. :(

Not sure how far I'll go with this event when it hits Live.

Seriously. "I want a decently levelled Stonehenge" and "I am only going to win 20% or so of the currency" does not compute.

I have done all of the sequential quests that I can afford to do. My goods and troops are depleted. The dailies so far have been less of a chore than the sequential quests. My Stonehenge is at level 4 right now, and with 15 days left, I can get a couple of more levels on it. I was never going to get it to 10 anyway, so if it ends up being 6 or 7, I'm perfectly happy with that.

Is that clearer? :p


LOL LOL LOL

I laugh at myself.

So I managed to push through, because there are some great trading partners on my map, and I just got my Stonehenge to level 8. I'll actually finish the event, much to my surprise, and I just might get SH to 9. If not, it's quite alright. :D
 

DeletedUser5521

Guest
Can someone from beta confirm what is the last daily prize (Cozy Farm)? Before I go on Venar's Rocks rampage ;)
Sure is (Cozy Farm) :D
Cozy Farm.png Cozy Farm Stats.png
 

Deleted User - 3932582

Guest
MinMax -- that is quite likely why those outposts have become extinct or at the very least, exceedingly rare!
Well, the existence of diamond farms did not prevent Wishing Wells showing up twice in the dailies. And that's where real money alternative (diamonds) are involved. So I don't know about that...
 

kctanzen

Well-Known Member
Diamond farms are still an element of chance, granted that chance is a pretty solid 10% rate of return, but chance none the less.
And enough of them to make a difference take a substantial amount of real estate.
PP spells accelerate progress quite a lot, putting more pressure on developers for new chapters / ideas -- or heaven forbid, more adventures.
Plus -- PP spells can be randomly crafted from the recipe list, giving another alternate source.
 
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