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Discussion News from Beta - may contain spoilers!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ælfwine, Apr 26, 2018.

  1. Pheryll

    Pheryll Well-Known Member

    Jun 10, 2017
    The need to collect a certain number of productions from current level buildings is unequal on many fronts:

    1) Early human cities are penalized for having larger buildings. Thus having current level workshops/manufactories costs more population and culture per instance than it does for elves. The type of boosts also play a role. Would you rather have a level 15 elven marble manufactory (6 squares) or a level 15 human steel manufactory (16 squares)? The difference can be quite large.

    2) Magic Workshops eat up more population and culture than normal workshops, but they are counted just the same in these quests.

    3) Sentient level manufactories are required for late game players, but boosted sentient production cannot be substituted for normal boosted production. Adding to this the base expectation for chapter quests anticipates only 6 manufactories at sentient level (construct quest). This averages one normal and one sentient per manufactory tier. Yet having only one manufactory able to produce normal boosted tier 1 goods is far below the expectation of this quest line.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  2. MinMax Gamer

    MinMax Gamer Well-Known Member

    Apr 2, 2019
    This is more of a feedback for Inno re: new event changes.

    I am normally not the one to object to changes. I play against the game and it's developers, so any new change they throw in is an opportunity or an obstacle to overcome. I am not concerned about fairness at all, as some other players do - couldn't care less if my challenge is harder or easier than it is for some other players, I don't play against them. So yeah, Spire is hard? Awesome! Randomized quests are hard? Great! Let me find a way to do the most with the constraints that I have.

    And the game so far allowed for pretty decent flexibility in the strategies to accomplish what you want. What to run a blue city? That can work. Load up on event buildings as substitutes to everything regular? You can. Go bananas on extra expansions and mass regular maxed buildings? Sure. Zero residences and workshops and live off instants? Totally doable.

    But the latest changes move the game in the direction of greatly reduced flexibility in strategy choices. Especially in the end game. Inno already admitted that they optimize for the average player, and that's cool as long as more fringe strategies can also work - that's what makes game interesting. But right now they already make some pretty serious roadblocks with end-game scouting, and now this. What it is moving towards is that at least in the end game there is only one "right" way to build a city, so you only have one strategy that works if you want to do events in any reasonable way. And in the end game, what else would you do except planning and executing events, and rebuilding with new events buildings? Tournaments and spire are cool and beneficial, but they don't really take much strategic planning.

    TL;DR: It might be possible to work around some of this and still run different strategies if we get rumored teleport spell. But I am not holding my breath. So far, these event changes make the end game even more boring. That's... disappointing.
  3. Socrates28

    Socrates28 Well-Known Member

    Jul 15, 2018
    @MinMax Gamer I could not agree with you more. Like you I am not concerned with "fairness" only the challenge before me. I too do not play against other payers, which I really like about the game. I can cheer them on as they succeed and grow and help them to my hearts content. I may win or lose at a specific task and I do not harm another player in doing so. I am almost end game, being 1/2 way through Constructs, and see the "hard stops" looming in my near future. I just hope that Inno will not ignore us in the process of developing this game further.
    Indeed boredom would be very disappointing.
    Black watch, osideglen and Kekune like this.
  4. RainbowSKYEPIXIE

    RainbowSKYEPIXIE Active Member

    Jan 22, 2018
  5. Pheryll

    Pheryll Well-Known Member

    Jun 10, 2017
    Looks like the Beta feedback has caused the design team to reconsider the scout or research quest and revise it to make it more palpable for people at the end. The other quests do not look like they will see any significant revision:

    Per Marindor:
  6. Enevhar Aldarion

    Enevhar Aldarion Well-Known Member

    Nov 29, 2016
    That is cool. The Scout or Research tasks are the worst for any late-game players. But the rest is easy to work around.
  7. The Unbeliever

    The Unbeliever Well-Known Member

    Jun 22, 2017
    Don't think anything will change... The Elvenar team are beyond clueless and/or simply don't care about the players.

    The fact that their first change was to, wait for it... add a "research a technology" as the alternative is beyond hilarious incompetence!
    I mean, it's not like the actual complaint has been anything remotely like;
    End Game players: 'Our scouting takes 4-6+ days and we have no tech to research because we've researched EVERYTHING - we an alternative quest option!'

    Inno's solution: 'We've added a secondary condition to the scout quests - research a tech'

    End Game players: 'Are you for real, or just trolling us at this point?'
    *note: yes, much, MUCH stronger words should be here, but well, PG forum and all.:rolleyes:;);)

    It's clear that Inno has their own narrow way they want to force us to play this game, and anything outside of that tiny little bubble they consider to be cheating/exploiting/wrong.

    They are quickly pushing me & my dad toward just saying, "feth this garbage" and quitting...
    We have Link's Awakening & Dragon Quest 11 coming out soon for the Switch.
    I play FoE - who are listening to their player feedback
    I play Wahammer 40k and guess what, yep, Games Workshop are actively listening to player feedback
    I play other Switch & 3DS games too...

    Start LISTENING TO YOUR PLAYERS Elvenar - or most of us will soon quit!!:mad::mad::mad:
  8. Jackluyt

    Jackluyt Well-Known Member

    Mar 25, 2016
    They just released the Teleport Spell in Beta World.
    Also the requirements for Event buildings have changed from 'current or previous chapter' to 'current or previous 3 chapters'.


    Dear Humans and Elves,
    Today we have updated the rewards available from the Spire of Eternity on Beta! It is now possible to receive a Teleport Building Spell, which can be used to teleport a building into the inventory. This Spell works on many buildings, with some exceptions, such as Settlement buildings, Main Hall, Trader, Ancient Wonders, and some more.

    The Teleport Spell is exclusively available via the Spire of Eternity, and can be found in some Encounters in the Spire, including some early ones, Boss Encounters, and it is a potential reward in Mystery Chests. The Teleport Building Spell replaces some other rewards from these Chests.
    From the Inventory, you can either place them back into your city, or you can disenchant the building for Spell Fragments to use in Crafting. We're very curious to hear your feedback.
    Please let us know your thoughts by posting in the discussion thread!
    Kind regards
    Your Elvenar Team

    Balancing for the new event
    Based on early event feedback and the concern that not all players will have sufficient time to max out their production buildings for specific quests, we have reacted and enabled the following change on Beta already: Workshop production quests with requirements for a minimum building level have been adapted to not require the minimum available level from the previous Chapter (current Chapter-1) but instead from 3 Chapters ago (current Chapter-3). These values might still change as we monitor analytics data on the event and player progression. In addition, the "Scout 1 province" quest without an alternative now got the alternative "OR Research 1 Technology".
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  9. Deborah M

    Deborah M Well-Known Member

    Jan 29, 2018
    Wow! That kills 2 birds with one stone. Storage? They said that would never be available in this game. Love that they did something about years of players complaining! And, it forces anybody who wants it to play the Spire. Since I don't know anybody who thought the Spire was worth it, now maybe it will be a necessity to some.
    osideglen and Socrates28 like this.
  10. Pheryll

    Pheryll Well-Known Member

    Jun 10, 2017
    I was thinking that they were actually going to address the complaint being made, since they cited the late game players. They still may do this. I mean it is not like they have a lack of options to choose from:

    1) Orc production (12hr, 1day, 2days, 4days) Since players late game are being steered toward armories anyways.
    2) 1 or 2 day productions (from level 1 manufactories)
    3) Event specific buildings (plenty of positive feedback on this idea)
    4) Daily quests (why did they disappear?)
    5) Limit the number of quests (going endless has made little sense)

    ...and plenty of more options which have been suggested in the past. There is no reason to feel that scout or research technology is the only way to have a long duration requirement.
  11. Ashrem

    Ashrem Well-Known Member

    Nov 6, 2016
    Because they went with endless tasks instead. The daily tasks were there to give people something to do if they finished the quest list early.

    By eliminating use of that fourth slot, they've opened it so they can run other things during an event
    osideglen likes this.
  12. Lyleth

    Lyleth Well-Known Member

    Nov 26, 2015
    Yeah, I am somewhat dismayed by the daily task disappearing. I know many players for the mermaid event were able to get a huge number of fully evolved buildings, but others get stuck behind a certain quest. The daily quest at least offers some path forward.
  13. Ashrem

    Ashrem Well-Known Member

    Nov 6, 2016
    True. I'm not sure they made the best choice. There are several suggestions elsewhere that could improve it. My personal favourite is that the quests should become declinable 24 hours after they appear.
  14. sputnik9009

    sputnik9009 Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2018
    we all have been punked!
    apparently the buildings are to be a Beaver, Muskrat and the Opossum
    osideglen and Vergazi like this.
  15. Ashrem

    Ashrem Well-Known Member

    Nov 6, 2016
    Well, the combination of the six hour crafting window and reduction in pet food definitely fixed something. I used to check pretty zealously three times a day, now I've just stopped paying attention all together.
  16. RandomNo.

    RandomNo. Well-Known Member

    Sep 28, 2017
    Weird, because since the reduction in reset time, I've been crafting more than ever. Same stuff as I always do - time instants, military boosts and KP, but more often. I'll say though that I've not seen many Pet Food so far

    Also, checking 3 times a day even with a 6 hour reset times should still result in you seeing different recipes 3 times a day. I don't see how that makes crafting less interesting @Ashrem
  17. TomatoeHu

    TomatoeHu Well-Known Member

    Aug 30, 2016
    I would like someone to explain how "previous three chapters" production being required isn't the same garbage as current or previous when we don't want the build to be leveled at all, or permanent in our cities? Now i must keep an even LESS efficient city design by doing this. Is there no math in your studio art chairs? Not enough time to level them?! Not relevant when the building is unwanted and useless between events. At least level 1 buildings could be torn down and replaced when it was necessary and choose the amount of space dedicated to such tasks. Can the Teleport spell please include these useless extra production buildings ingeniously added to our events? Barf
  18. Ashrem

    Ashrem Well-Known Member

    Nov 6, 2016
    Weird. I'd forgotten that what you want to craft is what everyone should want to craft.

    After a couple of days of my standard careful checks, having encountered no martial boost buildings and only one pet food (the only two things that ever interested me), I just stopped making an effort. I still look some times, but I no longer make a habit of checking at the three times a day I did before.

    I suppose I'm just not as perfect a player as some people, but somehow I just don't enjoy someone referring to my experience as "weird" because I'm not the same as them. Feel free to not respond to weird people in the future if we bother you.
    sputnik9009 and osideglen like this.
  19. arayla

    arayla Well-Known Member

    Jun 2, 2017
    Elvenar will soon be seeing new types of quests in the events. In order for this post to not be moved to the Beta spoilers section, I will not refer to anything specific to Beta. It is important that players who do not read the Beta thread still see this information. If you wish to comment about the changes themselves, please use this thread: https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/news-from-beta-may-contain-spoilers.16075/. The focus here is on how to prepare.

    In future events, some of the quests will now require using workshops or manufactories that are on level (well, kinda) with what is available for you to build in your city’s current chapter. You will no longer need to have any level 1 workshops or level 1 boosted T1 (T1 is the abbreviation for Tier 1 which is marble, steel and planks) (Fellowship Adventures and the Challenges will still use level 1 buildings though).

    The wording on these new quests is a little difficult to understand. Technically, workshops will need to be at a minimum the lowest level of what was available to build 3 chapters ago and boosted T1 manufactories will need to be at a minimum the lowest level of what was available to build 1 chapter ago. How many will you “need”? For the foreseeable future, it appears that 6 workshops and 5 boosted T1s will be sufficient.

    What if you don’t have “enough” workshops or T1s? As long as you do have some workshops and boosted T1s at your chapter level, you can play the event. You will just not be able to make it as far since you will end up waiting to complete quests. If you have time boosters in inventory, you could use those to speed up production on your workshops/T1s.

    What if you don't have "enough" workshops or T1s and want to get them built in time? Workshops take many hours to upgrade, so it is advisable to get started today. You may need to build additional residences for the new buildings as well. The boosted T1s are more manageable with the time needed to upgrade, but may also need additional population.

    Preparing your city to do well with the new event quests in possible without spending any diamonds for most players. (There may be some "edge cases" where a city currently has no workshops or no T1 buildings and therefore struggles to prepare in time.) Feel free to ask for help with changing your city layout if you wish. There are many helpful long-timers here who are great with ElvenArchitect.

    Here is a link to a spreadsheet version of the tables below: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-DkKonI4-2iqGftDmlEw1Ke_6xZac9dWBPD-7QAoWN0/edit?usp=sharing
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019 at 6:37 PM
  20. Jackluyt

    Jackluyt Well-Known Member

    Mar 25, 2016
    I am finding that if I check every few hours, I am still getting about 3 petfood a week. Enough for the Tournaments - and a little to spare. It is not as bad as I feared when they announced the re-structuring of the crafting recipes!
    Socrates28, sputnik9009 and osideglen like this.