News from Beta - May Contain Spoilers!

[Deleted User - 1178646]

This doesn't make sense. If a full queue of any 1 building takes me 5hrs then whether I use a 5hr timer to clear the queue 3x, or use a 5hr timer to clear 3 independent queues gives me the exact same number of troops for the same cost, either way. If one queue is LESS than 5hrs to clear, then maybe I can see an argument as I would be wasting some of my timer (but I would then just make sure production is never faster than 5hrs).

I don't see it as a nerf to the brown bear either. Making it less essential: Yes. But not a nerf. If my queue of troops in all 3 are fully produced and not collected, activating brown bear if they are in 1 queue or 3 then collecting will still give the same amount of troops. Then, because I will be able to produce more troops in 3 separate queues it will actually give me MORE troops over the life of that one feeding (not withstanding the use of any timers).

The "influence" of time boosters is greatly diminished.
Thats the nerf.

Where timeboosters had a great influence that influence now is only 1/3rd

So yeah you still get the same number of squads from that booster, but on the total pile of squads that influence is greatly reduced.
This way the units making of timeboosters are nerfed and the requirment to play spire is also reduced a lot.

 

[mikeledo]

Hurtball: I don't see it as a nerf to the brown bear either. Making it less essential: Yes. But not a nerf. You say tomato, I say tomatoe.

 

[samidodamage]

The "influence" of time boosters is greatly diminished.
Thats the nerf.

Ok, now I think I get it! I was having a hard time wrapping my brain around the concept that time boosters would be less valuable in troop production with 3 different training queues. If I'm reading this right, here's how the change will be for me:
Right now, my training queue is ~15hrs. What I try to do is get as many troops trained and ready for collection as possible in all 3 buildings before I feed the brown bear and collect ~5 slots of those troops in 3 buildings. That takes me a couple days (~45hrs) during which time I am not collecting troops. Then, I push through troops with time boosters to stockpile a bit.
When the changes launch, I'll be able to set my troops in all 3 buildings early one evening and the next morning: feed the bear and harvest 15 slots of troops right away. I'll have less need to push troops through with time boosters as I will also be training/collecting troops from all 3 buildings during the 12 hrs the feeding effect is active. While I might still push through some troops that I use the most, I'll have the choice to just collect as they come available since I'll have 3 slots (1 in each bldg) coming available every 3 hrs or so instead of 1 slot every 3hrs. And, I will also have more troops because I was able to collect troops during a time I would otherwise have been holding off on collections (~30 hours for me!).
I still like the idea of the change. We'll see what I think of it once it goes live and I actually use it, lol!

 

[mikeledo]

I see it as time boosters doing the same thing plus I get an added bonus of troops being made at regular speed in the other 2 units. That is like saying making more troops in an orc nest or valerian valor nerfs the time boost.

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

still seems that if you time boost 5 ques of troops it's still 5 ques of troops per time boost, if you loaded barracks, merc camp, and training grounds to use brown bear it's still 1 pet food to clear them, the difference is you wont have to wait to 3 times as long for the troops to train as they will train at the same time.. seems more of a wash on the nerfing of time boosts

 

[samidodamage]

I think folks are getting hung up on the use of the word 'nerf'. I know I was. Nerf is a shorthand way of saying 'reduce the value of'. I don't think anyone is saying you won't get the same number of troops for each use of a time booster as before. The value of a time booster is they make it so you don't have to wait.

the difference is you wont have to wait

Thus making time boosters less valuable.

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

granted none of this is in live yet but, if the troops are being made at 3 times the speed (rounding) because barracks, merc camp, training grounds all have 5 ques of troops training at once .. the value or influence or whatever term to be inserted for speed ups still seems to be a wash, the vast majority of players do not have 2 or 3 or 4 brown bears some don't even have 1 .. a 5 hr or 20 hr speed up still is 5 hr or 20 hrs no reduction in value

 

[Kekune]

I think calling it a nerf makes some sense in the context of larger changes.

Currently, I can increase my overall troop production by 50% for the cost of a pet food plus however many time and supply instants I choose to spend. This helps me overcome troop loss that would otherwise limit my tourney and spire performance.

They've made massive changes to tournament difficulty. Presumably, the devs believe that essentially tripling troop production balances these tournament changes. That is, they're expecting triple the troop loss (yes, that's oversimplified, I know). However, having separate queues reduces my ability to compensate equally for that troop loss - it'll also cost me triple the supplies and boosters, and they're not giving those things away.

So if they've increased both troop availability and loss by comparable amounts, I will be worse off than I was before. They've nerfed my troop production relative to my troop need, whether you look at that as a problem with the bear, the instants, or whatever.

 

[samidodamage]

a 5 hr or 20 hr speed up still is 5 hr or 20 hrs no reduction in value

I'm not saying there is no value in a time booster, just that its value for producing troops is reduced with 3 different queues. By the above logic, 1000 spell fragments are still worth 1000 spell fragments. When the Spire first launched, 1000 SF's were a valuable reward to me. Now, with 500K of them in inventory...not so much.
I *think* the point @CrazyWizard is making about the time boosters is: For players who value getting them in the Spire for troop production, they will be viewed as less valuable. I probably should have also included this quote from his post:

and the requirment to play spire is also reduced

I'm not saying there's anything bad about giving us 3 training queues. Because of the way the fights work in the Spire, I've already changed my approach from making specific troops each week (tourney) and placing military boost bldgs based on those troops. I now make troops from all categories equally (not necessarily all troops, I still don't train Sword Dancers or Dryads for example) and try to keep the levels of inventory similar. I also try to place one health booster bldg (either UUU or DA), one ELR and one MMM every week even if light range and mage troops are not expected to be used in the current tourney. With the change to the tourney fights becoming more like the Spire fights, I expect this approach will be a benefit. I also think having a different training queue for each bldg will be helpful, and with 1 lvl 10 Brown Bear, I expect to feed the bear once/wk and use time boosters to push through troops from all 3 bldgs as well. I expect I'll need to do this to keep up with the increased demand for troops in the new tourney structure. I am not at all sure it will result in being able to go as deep in tourneys as I do now in rounds 1 & 2 (45-50 provinces: as many as I have available as I am conservative with map exploration).
All I was really trying to do was wrap my brain around the concept the math brains picked up on immediately: The value of time boosters in troop production has been reduced.

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

if i load all 5 ques in barracks then harvest, then load all 5 ques in training camps then harvest, load all 5 ques in merc camp then harvest or wait and harvest them all at the same time it takes = amounts of supplies to train those troops, the number of troops is the same either way .. if i use a pet food and brown bear boost it still takes 1 pet food and equal amounts of supplies to train as it is still the same amount of troops, if i want to reload to get an extra harvest or two, for max pet food use on brown bear on all 3 it takes less time as all 3 buildings are training 5 ques of troops vs doing merc camp, barracks, training grounds individually then waiting for the other 2 to load and finish .. if someone is just wanting troops from 1 of the them say merc camp they can use speed ups on just that set of troops and the use is the same the value is the same as it is now

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Here is the only negative I see to this change when combined with time boosters. In the current system for example, you can start two batches in barracks, two in training grounds, and one in merc camp. If those five together take 14 hours, then one 14-hour booster finishes them together. With the new system, the times to produce are separated between the buildings, so you would need multiple small boosters to get the same result. I am guessing people do not do this often, though, so still a niche case.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I'm not saying there is no value in a time booster, just that its value for producing troops is reduced with 3 different queues. By the above logic, 1000 spell fragments are still worth 1000 spell fragments. When the Spire first launched, 1000 SF's were a valuable reward to me. Now, with 500K of them in inventory...not so much.
I *think* the point @CrazyWizard is making about the time boosters is: For players who value getting them in the Spire for troop production, they will be viewed as less valuable. I probably should have also included this quote from his post:

I'm not saying there's anything bad about giving us 3 training queues. Because of the way the fights work in the Spire, I've already changed my approach from making specific troops each week (tourney) and placing military boost bldgs based on those troops. I now make troops from all categories equally (not necessarily all troops, I still don't train Sword Dancers or Dryads for example) and try to keep the levels of inventory similar. I also try to place one health booster bldg (either UUU or DA), one ELR and one MMM every week even if light range and mage troops are not expected to be used in the current tourney. With the change to the tourney fights becoming more like the Spire fights, I expect this approach will be a benefit. I also think having a different training queue for each bldg will be helpful, and with 1 lvl 10 Brown Bear, I expect to feed the bear once/wk and use time boosters to push through troops from all 3 bldgs as well. I expect I'll need to do this to keep up with the increased demand for troops in the new tourney structure. I am not at all sure it will result in being able to go as deep in tourneys as I do now in rounds 1 & 2 (45-50 provinces: as many as I have available as I am conservative with map exploration).
All I was really trying to do was wrap my brain around the concept the math brains picked up on immediately: The value of time boosters in troop production has been reduced.

Yes correct it's not about the direct value, but the relative value of an item.

Example:
1 dollar is 1 dollar, but the relative value of 1 dollar in 1854 is a lot more than 1 dollar in 2020.
Both are a dollar, that did not change but what did change is the impact the dollar had.

In 1854 working an hoiur for a dollar might have been an awesome deal, today nobody is working an hour, or even 10 minutes for "just a dollar".

It's the same with timeboosters, the relative impact a timebooster has on your unit production is lower.

 

[StarLoad]

Thus making time boosters less valuable.

But only as respects to troop productions, for any other use its value is equal, so if a Nerf it is a very selective one that applies only to users that would place that specific time boost for troops. So your statement of a lowered value sounds better, but I feel is the tip of the iceberg of change to come.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Do not forget every unit production building has it's relative value lowered with this change,

This includes all unit relating wonders (except sapiens), orc strategist buildings, that event building form last time ect.
So this change totally changed the relative value of even the combat wonders, making wonders even a worse part of the tournament formula that it already was.

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

well here in the year 2020 you can only use 1 speed up per bldg at a time ) now the impact of wonders is a different set of math .. i have no idea what the relative values will be till they release this pile of turds to the live worlds and as a who;e it will be a screw you to everyone who has put in the time to build wonders then upgrade and do expansions .. the focus i was commenting on was the use and effect of having barracks. training grounds, merc camp, all full and harvesting with brown bear, the point of partial fills for them is well taken

 

[mikeledo]

Want to talk about how the Simia Sapien which increases the production of troops was anti-nerfed?

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Want to talk about how the Simia Sapien which increases the production of troops was anti-nerfed?

Yup that one is the only one that become better

 

[mikeledo]

Yup that one is the only one that become better

I would say the three AWs that increase troop production time also got better since their effect will be used 100% of the time instead of a third or half the time.

 

[Deleted User - 4565442]

Chapter 17 settlement and buildings
here
Looks like Unur theme of airships from June event.
portal + 9 production buildings of settlement, one of them 9x4 size, good luck with place in the city

 

[Agvar]

'Autumn Zodiac' seasonal questline event just started in Beta World - read more here:

https://tinyurl.com/y4va7r9o

This link is showing as currently unavailable in the new FB format as of 1st September.