SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
So. Much. Crafting.@SoggyShorts you might want to change that VV abbreviation to VG, or some folks might think this thing gives out Vision Vapors.
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Your Elvenar Team
News from Beta - May Contain Spoilers!
- Thread starter helya
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Starr621
Member
I took a brief look at the comparison between the new building and the previous evo building (Fairy Queen's Retreat). Both at 4x4, Ch 18, and stage 10 give 3363 seeds and 8850 (from beta source) for the fairy queen's retreat and triumph of tides buildings respectively. So that is roughly a 2.6x increase in seeds if you produce that exclusively for the triumph. Now I'm not sure if that will be the same ratio among all resources but so far it appears to point in a positive direction that you will get more of what you assign to produce in exchange for only being able to produce one resource at a time.
Deleted User - 849402856
Guest
Am I the only person feeling some power creep in the recent event building?
Many people would agree that the Pilgrim set is powerful (goods production + CC and relics).
Now let's look at the evolving building from the next event. In Chapter 5, it gives 650 culture, 320 pop, and 9100 T2 goods.
In comparison, Queen Fairy's Retreat in the same chapter gives 364 culture, 304 pop, 3458 T2 goods, and 3 KPs.
Although the Retreat gives the extra KP instant, to me the huge gap in the amount of T2 goods is more than enough to outweigh the KPs. Without even having to mention that the next event building offers greater flexibility in terms of what to produce, it is a much more powerful building.
As a person who spent a non-negligible sum of cash to get the second Retreat just a month ago, I feel a bit sad, and I probably won't spend any more cash in this game. I got the second Retreat because based on my analysis it was slightly better than previous evolving buildings, but now I hope I waited just one more month.
Many people would agree that the Pilgrim set is powerful (goods production + CC and relics).
Now let's look at the evolving building from the next event. In Chapter 5, it gives 650 culture, 320 pop, and 9100 T2 goods.
In comparison, Queen Fairy's Retreat in the same chapter gives 364 culture, 304 pop, 3458 T2 goods, and 3 KPs.
Although the Retreat gives the extra KP instant, to me the huge gap in the amount of T2 goods is more than enough to outweigh the KPs. Without even having to mention that the next event building offers greater flexibility in terms of what to produce, it is a much more powerful building.
As a person who spent a non-negligible sum of cash to get the second Retreat just a month ago, I feel a bit sad, and I probably won't spend any more cash in this game. I got the second Retreat because based on my analysis it was slightly better than previous evolving buildings, but now I hope I waited just one more month.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
I disagree, BUT I'm biased towards KP. I find that goods only really have a value in how they get me KP.
To compare KP vs goods I go to the last tournament province I plan to complete and then look at the next one. How much will it cost to cater it twice to get 5 KP?
The other simpler way would be to see how many goods your next KP would cost to buy outright, and I could barely buy 1 KP with those goods, and not even 1/3 of a KP with the difference between those buildings.
That 3 KP instant is worth 10x as much as the goods increase to me.
Deleted User - 849402856
Guest
@SoggyShorts
These are in Chapter 5 cities. In my Chapter 5 city, it only costs 120 silk to buy 1 KP. According to your logic, the difference in T2 good production between the two buildings will allow me to purchase dozens of KPs.
Probably another potential way to measure the value of KPs in evolving buildings is to compare previous evolving buildings that give KPs vs. not. The closest comparison I can find is Aureate Phoenix vs. Mermaids' Paradise.
In Chapter 5,
Aureate Phoenix (converted to 24h): 561 culture, 277 pop, 57600 coins, and 4320 T1 (plus the feeding effect, but I don't think many people use the AP feeding effect).
Mermaids Paradise: 612 culture, 304 pop, 3111 T1, and 3 KPs.
Although the comparison is not perfect, we can roughly say that the value of 3 KP production in Chapter 5 equals 57600 coins and 1200 T1.
In comparison, when you compare Queen Fairy's Retreat and the next evolving buildings, the price of 3 KP is about 5600 T2, which seems much more expensive to me. Therefore, my conclusion is that the next evolving building is overpowered (at least for lower chapters, as I didn't look into later chapters).
These are in Chapter 5 cities. In my Chapter 5 city, it only costs 120 silk to buy 1 KP. According to your logic, the difference in T2 good production between the two buildings will allow me to purchase dozens of KPs.
Probably another potential way to measure the value of KPs in evolving buildings is to compare previous evolving buildings that give KPs vs. not. The closest comparison I can find is Aureate Phoenix vs. Mermaids' Paradise.
In Chapter 5,
Aureate Phoenix (converted to 24h): 561 culture, 277 pop, 57600 coins, and 4320 T1 (plus the feeding effect, but I don't think many people use the AP feeding effect).
Mermaids Paradise: 612 culture, 304 pop, 3111 T1, and 3 KPs.
Although the comparison is not perfect, we can roughly say that the value of 3 KP production in Chapter 5 equals 57600 coins and 1200 T1.
In comparison, when you compare Queen Fairy's Retreat and the next evolving buildings, the price of 3 KP is about 5600 T2, which seems much more expensive to me. Therefore, my conclusion is that the next evolving building is overpowered (at least for lower chapters, as I didn't look into later chapters).
Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
That just means you have only ever bought 3 KP with your silk, as your chapter has nothing to do with what the KP costs. If you never use your silk to buy KP, the cost of that first one will stay at 20 silk, no matter what chapter you are in. And if you buy 10 KP with silk, as soon as you can make the good in chapter 2, that 11th KP will cost 220 silk, whether you buy it in chapter 2 or 10 or 18. A KP bought with your boosted tier 2 good increases by 20 with each one you buy. Tier 1 good purchases increase by 40 with each KP and tier 3 good purchases by 10 with each KP, all regardless of your chapter.
Deleted User - 849402856
Guest
@Enevhar Aldarion
I mentioned it just to make the case that using the cost of purchasing KPs to measure the value of KP instants is probably not the best way. As you indicated, it varies too much depending on whether a person regularly purchases KPs or not.
As an alternative, I provided information on how KPs were generally priced at in historical evolving buildings.
I mentioned it just to make the case that using the cost of purchasing KPs to measure the value of KP instants is probably not the best way. As you indicated, it varies too much depending on whether a person regularly purchases KPs or not.
As an alternative, I provided information on how KPs were generally priced at in historical evolving buildings.
Huor
Guest
One thing I have learned in my short few months with the game is each event seems to bring me something better to replace something I already have. Sounds like this new building will be a nice addition to my little town.
Gladiola
Well-Known Member
@Kazaaar As a person who's been in and out of the game since its inception, I would say that when I hadn't played for very long the event prizes seemed much more important and exciting. So going all out in the first event or two is pretty normal. Over time I have realized that if I don't get a particular prize I will eventually get one I like even more. By the same token, there will be other prizes that are just plain duds. When I didn't have a very big comparator database it was much harder to make judgments. I hope you won't be discouraged to find that the prizes you won were maybe not as earth-shatteringly wonderful. They still have the use for you that they had when you got them. You'll get other prizes along the way that you will hopefully be excited about. Please don't retire. I need to design my chapter 5 city!
Veesviewpoint
Active Member
V's
Jackluyt
Platinum Leaf -FB
POSTED BY MARINDOR IN THE BETA FORUM
Dear Humans and Elves,
On June 27, the reward dataset for the Spire of Eternity will be adjusted for the next 6 weeks.
Changes:
Your Elvenar Team
My comment:
This experiment with Artifacts gained in the Spire has been, IMO, a dismal failure. None of my players have managed more than two of them - which means it would take a newcomer four years at this rate to fully evolve one of the three classic Bears.
The system at present is a MESS - and I hope they will do something to fix it!
IMO, it is not working for most players - no point in having something there for you to win, if you seldom win it. The prizes in the spire are too random for this to be a fair and reliable way of feeding them to newcomers who missed the building's original event.
It would be much better, I believe, to bring in a system of Artifact Fragments which one could collect in all the weekly and seasonal events as well as the FA's - and when you have enough of them, you could forge an Artifact for ANY building of your choice. That would allow us to choose which building we wanted to evolve fully without waiting for years - and the designers could preserve rarity value by making the number of fragments quite high, so you would have to work several months to get an artifact. It would also encourage reluctant players to participate in ALL the side events, including FA!!
Dear Humans and Elves,
On June 27, the reward dataset for the Spire of Eternity will be adjusted for the next 6 weeks.
Changes:
- Bear Artifacts will be phased out as a possible reward for the Spire of Eternity
- Gingerbread Artifacts and craftable building will be phased in instead
- Mermaid Artifacts will also be phased in
Your Elvenar Team
My comment:
This experiment with Artifacts gained in the Spire has been, IMO, a dismal failure. None of my players have managed more than two of them - which means it would take a newcomer four years at this rate to fully evolve one of the three classic Bears.
The system at present is a MESS - and I hope they will do something to fix it!
IMO, it is not working for most players - no point in having something there for you to win, if you seldom win it. The prizes in the spire are too random for this to be a fair and reliable way of feeding them to newcomers who missed the building's original event.
It would be much better, I believe, to bring in a system of Artifact Fragments which one could collect in all the weekly and seasonal events as well as the FA's - and when you have enough of them, you could forge an Artifact for ANY building of your choice. That would allow us to choose which building we wanted to evolve fully without waiting for years - and the designers could preserve rarity value by making the number of fragments quite high, so you would have to work several months to get an artifact. It would also encourage reluctant players to participate in ALL the side events, including FA!!
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Henroo
Oh Wise One
@Jackluyt I somewhat agree with your comment. I play 3 different cities and I go to the top of the Spire every week. The *BEST* I have managed from this for a building which I was starting from scratch is 7 artifacts. Which gave me a stage 8 Mermaid Paradise in Winy. So for a player who has no progress at all on an evolving building, it is very unlikely they could get a stage 10 building in a 6 week spire cycle.
However that is for buildings starting from scratch. During the Coldfire Phoenix event I chose to convert my Coldfire artifacts to regular Phoenix artifacts and during the Moonbear event I chose to convert Moonbear artifacts to regular Bear artifacts. Therefore I had partially evolved Fire Phoenixes and Brown Bears in all of my cities. For these 2 buildings, having artifacts in the spire has been a godsend. I was able to finish evolving all of the Fire Phoenixes and 2 of the Brown Bears (I have had utter crap luck so far getting bear artifacts in Khel). However, I am not sure if this is typical of most players. I don't know how many players have partially evolved buildings sitting around. The only reason I had them was because it was Fire Phoenix and Brown Bear. For a combat player, even partially evolved versions are great.
I really like your idea about switching the spire to winning artifact fragments, which could be used to forge any artifact. This would let players focus on what evolving buildings they want to improve. I am totally in favor of anything that lets players control what they work on in their cities. If you put this forth as a poll in the Ideas and Suggestions forum, I would vote for it.
However that is for buildings starting from scratch. During the Coldfire Phoenix event I chose to convert my Coldfire artifacts to regular Phoenix artifacts and during the Moonbear event I chose to convert Moonbear artifacts to regular Bear artifacts. Therefore I had partially evolved Fire Phoenixes and Brown Bears in all of my cities. For these 2 buildings, having artifacts in the spire has been a godsend. I was able to finish evolving all of the Fire Phoenixes and 2 of the Brown Bears (I have had utter crap luck so far getting bear artifacts in Khel). However, I am not sure if this is typical of most players. I don't know how many players have partially evolved buildings sitting around. The only reason I had them was because it was Fire Phoenix and Brown Bear. For a combat player, even partially evolved versions are great.
I really like your idea about switching the spire to winning artifact fragments, which could be used to forge any artifact. This would let players focus on what evolving buildings they want to improve. I am totally in favor of anything that lets players control what they work on in their cities. If you put this forth as a poll in the Ideas and Suggestions forum, I would vote for it.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
But inno found a way to monetize artifacts so I don't think there will be any change.
Just like you, I managed to get a partially evolved mermaid from the spire. Now, mermaids are available for crafting which costs 50 diamonds(or 6 hours) per flip, and 900 diamonds (or 3 BP) per recipe.
Huor
Guest
Man... I didn't win one bear artifact.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Source?
Just because Beta screwed up and had 1 week of moonstone + 5 bears doesn't mean we'll drop to 5 weeks of bears.
Gladiola
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure how we can use it well though. (Criticism is not aimed at you.) So far out of 4 weeks of bear artifacts, I've gotten 0 on three of the weeks and 2 on one of the weeks. I've climbed to the top of the Spire every time. Granted, if I didn't do the Spire at all I would have 0 artifacts, but with just 2 artifacts I'm not sure if a bear is worth placing, so maybe it's the same as getting 0 artifacts.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Presumably, bears will be added to crafting just like phoenix, Stonehenge and mermaids have been, and a fall event could have new bear(s) once again that can be converted to old bears, so 2 might turn into 10 instead of 0 turning into 8
Edit: that said, I don't place any Evo until I have 9 artifacts for it other than the hut since that was good already at low level (and I'd place a low level firechicken)
Gladiola
Well-Known Member
@SoggyShorts I didn't craft a fire chicken until I had 7 evos for it. I have a fully evolved one now though! But it's the only evolving building I have placed so far. I converted my Ashen artifacts to 2019 Phoenix artifacts; if I'd known I would have been able to craft them with blueprints on an ongoing basis I might have placed the Ashen Phoenix, especially with the new league system. But now I only have 3 artifacts for it.
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