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    Your Elvenar Team

Null, Void, Dead, DOA, etc...


Null and Void thread, new threads posted elswhere
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Chef - loquacious Old Dog
@spambrando: I have no problem with pretty much anything you have said. The following comments are meant to suggest some other explanations/ideas.

First, being kicked out of a fellowship/guild/alliance isn't always your fault. However, being kicked out of several may indicate an insensitivity to group norms....like avoiding subjects which people can't seem to discuss without them turning into a mutual hate the other guy club instead of a mutually informing about the subject at hand, club. Like it or not, people do make decisions based on emotion and that means you will get the boot if you don't pay attention/care about their emotional state.

Having said that, their emotional state should be secondary to the subject at hand, so long as you are addressing that, and not their competency/emotional state/motives.... any one of which would be an ad hominem fallacy.

Second, the advice to keep it private is usually given because firmly and forcefully presenting your position in a crowded bar, if others can hear you, invites allies and enemies to appear where strangers were standing a moment ago. It is well known that a public stance on a position reinforces your commitment to that position as you become the "guardian of truth" and attract less articulate people to your side. Being a champion is a difficult thing of which to let go. Some of us (including my self for certain), enjoy the sense of power we get from being the "guardian of truth" and if we aren't careful we will find ourselves doing as Socrates was accused of doing, "making the worse appear to be the better cause," or, in my opinion, worse, turning to ad hominem and ad populum fallacies when we run out of good arguments for our position. (This usually occurs because we jumped in before we really thought about our position).

In addition, when you have a beef with someone else not only is the advice to keep it private useful, it's also respectful. Often when you accuse someone of doing something you don't like, they aren't aware of having done it. A private message keeps them from being embarrassed AND keeps you from taking a public stance that, once you've spoken to the other person, you might find in error. In other words, it's respectful of the other person AND often allows you avoid the embarrassment of being found wrong in public.

So, in the end your comments are not a problem unless you wish to avoid unnecessary conflict. Some have accused me of liking conflict myself, so I do understand there are those who do. The difference between necessary and unnecessary is that the group benefits in the long run from a civil focused debate/discussion of the subject, while unnecessary conflict is almost always focused on questioning the motives/attitudes/level of understanding of the the other side (ad hominem fallacies) or claiming that "everybody" or "almost everybody" or something like that, knows this or that (the ad populum fallacy).

Finally, if you found this long, sorry. The brevity of which many seek usually leads to to the repeating "memes, mantras and pithy sayings" in place sound reasoning, evidence and a well thought out and organized presentation of the facts at hand. In the end, you get emotion laden ramblings instead of thoughtful dialog.

Hope this clarifies a few things, or at least expands you awareness of other points.



Still in search of more players for NKA fellowships in Arendyll, Sinya and Ceravyn, to a much lesser degree, Elcysandir. New threads posting today!
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