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    Your Elvenar Team

Parking city before guest races

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
Yeah.... I'll be deleting my MH now. Thank you!
It depends how much tourney you are doing though. And of all the factors influencing the base squad and catering costs, wonder levels is the smallest variable. For most people, it’s not going to make that big of a difference. Don’t fall for the wonder fear mongering talks. Elvenstats says I have 497 AW levels and I average ~10k weekly just fine. Probably don’t need to build every single wonder and you’ll be fine.
 

Silly Bubbles

You cant pop them all
These are the effects on fighting/catering base of the formula based on the latest version of MinMax spreadsheet (using preset values, Ch 16):

1% production boost: 0.13% increase
One mandatory research: 0.45% increase
One AW level: 0.18% increase
One non-premium expansion: 0.88% increase
One premium expansion: 0.58% increase

All of these increases can be offset by the benefits that they offer. Also, I've read reports that the formula has changed a bit and the effects are a bit smaller now. Also, production boost affects it as well. I ignored it because of its benefits, here's the spreadsheet for anyone who's interested:

Link: https://minmaxgame.com/tournament-and-spire-requirements-2020/
 

Sprite1313

Well-Known Member
I agree with @crackie on the wonder levels. Consider all the pros and cons of a wonder before deciding to sell it. For my city, my MH gives me 133K population in 24 spaces. To replace that, I would need four MRs, taking up 96 spaces. Yes, the goods boost is lacklustre, but the population boost is great.

I used to hem and haw about building AWs, and left a lot unbuilt that could have helped me with other aspects of the game. I finally decided to build what I wanted and not worry about the CAL increase. I have 588 AW levels, and have no issues scoring at least 10K per week in tourney and climbing to the top of the spire. The AW penalty is the smallest factor in the calculation, and there are a lot of strategies to offset the pain.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
I finally decided to build what I wanted and not worry about the CAL increase. I have 588 AW levels, and have no issues scoring at least 10K per week in tourney and climbing to the top of the spire. The AW penalty is the smallest factor in the calculation, and there are a lot of strategies to offset the pain.
It's true. @Sprite1313 added 136 wonder levels since becoming an ant and still kicks my butt weekly in tournament. Not only that, but her massive tourney output is boosting everyone else's wonders in the FS by spreading the wealth, and very quickly (runes) too. Most of our smaller larva cities are prob going to enter settlement chapters with a GA at least in lvl 20 or even maxed at 30 before sentient goods because nobody is afraid to add more levels. That only helps the overall strength of the FS.

Remember, it's not that wonders don't affect you, but that most people don't do enough tourney for it to really matter. If you're doing 15-20k of tourney weekly, then yes, it's gonna make a difference and you will feel the difference. However, that's like 1% of the gaming demographics that play that way. Plus, despite all the wonder fear mongering, they have nerfed the effects of wonder levels even more since MinMax's analysis. Most players don't even do full Spire or that much tourney. #DontFearWonders

I agree with @crackie
I'm going to make this into a fridge magnet.
 

Moho

Chef
All of these increases can be offset by the benefits that they offer.
I run cities parked in chapter 6. They used to be parked in chapter 5.

I think if you only plant the AWs whose effects you need for your strategy and then upgrade everything else, like main hall, factories, or armories, handling the Tournament and the Spire will not be a problem at all.
 

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
Yeah.... I'll be deleting my MH now. Thank you!
I have 688 AW levels. I'm only going to do 7 more levels and be done with it. I did delete my level 30 HF, but that was because its benefits weren't needed by me, and I got the space to put in the PT which is now level 32. Didn't mean to scare you.
Every AW level increases the base spire/tourney squad size along with catering cost.
This was just stating fact. Deleting the HF didn't make much difference in the squad size since it was and is already huge. So, as the next quote says...
I agree with @crackie on the wonder levels.
I'm going to make this into a fridge magnet
Let's work to fill her fridge with magnets. They make great gifts.
 

elvenbee

Well-Known Member
It depends how much tourney you are doing though. And of all the factors influencing the base squad and catering costs, wonder levels is the smallest variable. For most people, it’s not going to make that big of a difference. Don’t fall for the wonder fear mongering talks. Elvenstats says I have 497 AW levels and I average ~10k weekly just fine. Probably don’t need to build every single wonder and you’ll be fine.

I have 688 AW levels. I'm only going to do 7 more levels and be done with it. I did delete my level 30 HF, but that was because its benefits weren't needed by me, and I got the space to put in the PT which is now level 32. Didn't mean to scare you.
The population and goods boost it provides isn't a lot. I participate in both, the spire has been HARD for me to fight, which makes it harder since I'm hybrid catering/fighting, so I can't always cater otherwise I start running low on goods. I'm curious to see if without the MH it becomes easier, or if it doesn't really make a difference.

With players like myself, we find this game (I literally saw the game in an ad in Microsoft's Solitaire game) and start playing, but when we join a fellowship, it's not always one that knows how to help new players grow and understand the game. I was the one who was seeking more info and it brought me to the forums to help the FS'. It's a lot of intricacies that could cause burnout..
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
I was the one who was seeking more info and it brought me to the forums to help the FS'. It's a lot of intricacies that could cause burnout..
In my first FS, we only got 5 chests in tourney and if we wanted anymore, I had to do more of the heavy lifting myself. As they say, necessity is the mother of invention! I had to get really good at stretching my army out to do more. That's how I started learning the nuances of manual fighting. Eventually, I was able to do more than the AM, who was in late game, despite my stick figure troops. This was also before they put buildings from previous events in the Spire/MA. Since I wasn't here for the bear/phoenix events, no Brown Bear or Fire Phoenix for me to play with. Once I knew I can do just as well or better with level 1 and 2 troops than someone with all the toys, I knew fighting was only going to get easier once you give me all those toys later in the game. So don't get discouraged. It does get easier!

The ratio of your troop to enemy troop is set for everyone at the same point in the Spire, whether you're in chap 5 or 21, and however which way you've decided to build your city. Therefore, as you acquire more toys, you are really fighting the same ratio, but now with more oomph behind your troops. Hence, it can only get easier. As your base squad size increases, it's more about being able to make back the dead troops in time to go again next week. That is a troop production issue more than a strength issue. The main difference between Spire and tourney is the multi-wave nature of the later encounters. Therefore, you do need to have enough health to survive, even if you can kill rather quickly. Monastery/Sanctuary will help with this, or dropping DAs/UUUs. If you get your military wonders high enough though, you can fight the Spire without Fire Phoenix or buffs. Until then, it's probably advised to fight the Spire with a fed Fire Phoenix and some buffing.
 

elvenbee

Well-Known Member
In my first FS, we only got 5 chests in tourney and if we wanted anymore, I had to do more of the heavy lifting myself. As they say, necessity is the mother of invention! I had to get really good at stretching my army out to do more. That's how I started learning the nuances of manual fighting. Eventually, I was able to do more than the AM, who was in late game, despite my stick figure troops. This was also before they put buildings from previous events in the Spire/MA. Since I wasn't here for the bear/phoenix events, no Brown Bear or Fire Phoenix for me to play with. Once I knew I can do just as well or better with level 1 and 2 troops than someone with all the toys, I knew fighting was only going to get easier once you give me all those toys later in the game. So don't get discouraged. It does get easier!

The ratio of your troop to enemy troop is set for everyone at the same point in the Spire, whether you're in chap 5 or 21, and however which way you've decided to build your city. Therefore, as you acquire more toys, you are really fighting the same ratio, but now with more oomph behind your troops. Hence, it can only get easier. As your base squad size increases, it's more about being able to make back the dead troops in time to go again next week. That is a troop production issue more than a strength issue. The main difference between Spire and tourney is the multi-wave nature of the later encounters. Therefore, you do need to have enough health to survive, even if you can kill rather quickly. Monastery/Sanctuary will help with this, or dropping DAs/UUUs. If you get your military wonders high enough though, you can fight the Spire without Fire Phoenix or buffs. Until then, it's probably advised to fight the Spire with a fed Fire Phoenix and some buffing.
Thank you!! I always try reading your Guide to Fighting, but lately my brain just isn't with it and gets overwhelmed. This breakdown definitely helped!
 

Lelanya

Scroll-Keeper, Keys to the Gems
Ah Crackie you put in my mind of my first weeks on Beta. The enemy troops fought at full strength until defeated entirely, while my own troops took wounds and losses. I was  hooked, never had so much fun outside of the invisible terrain but, and was terribly disappointed when they fixed it. What doesn't kill you, just helps hone your tactics.

That said, the troop match ups in Spire could be, evened out so that more of them are worth fighting.
 

Smooper

Well-Known Member
I have an interesting long term plan. Right now I only have on average 10 provinces open for each tournament type. I am easily able to just cater but I am also still producing troops so I fight 4 or 5 provinces each round. After the FA I am really going to maximize the goods production and port away my armories and any other fighting building. I crafted an aureate phoenix to put down but not sure which type of phoenix artifact works with it. Will also sell my needles which is very low level.

After a year of running it like this I should have all the birds, bears and artifacts I need to change it up completely and go with a military city.
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
So lets say, I build lots of factories to allow me to cater and negotiate my way. What is the best way to maximize those factories besides manufacturing enchantments? I know I will never have enough of them. I don't think there is an AW which helps like the Mountain Halls does. If Magical Manufacturing enchantments are the best, how do I make the most possible of those without running out of runes? Just looking for some tips to maximize my output.
I feed my fully evolved aureate and storm when I need a huge amount of goods, such as in the FA for bracelets. Without those, I make something like 16K every 3 hours from my planks factories. When both are fed, I can churn out around 28K for 3 hours. But the only bad part is that the feeding only last 3 and a half hours, so you can only get 2 collections per feed. Still, when you need it, you need it. Best time to feed it is in the morning, when you do a 9 hour collection and get a whole lot more, and then squeeze in one 3 hour collection with it.
 

Myne

Oh Wise One
My baby city is now in chapter 9, it did pretty well in fa as far as badges go. I do mostly cater in that city.
My main city is a bracelet desert in chapter 15.
 

Moho

Chef
My parked cities are in Chapter 6. Now that the FA is over, the shanty towns have been replaced by troops producing buildings, especially the types of units that I can't train in the Barracks or Training Grounds.

i35.jpg


The dent in this picture is the space reserved for the next event main building.
 

Smooper

Well-Known Member
My parked cities are in Chapter 6. Now that the FA is over, the shanty towns have been replaced by troops producing buildings, especially the types of units that I can't train in the Barracks or Training Grounds.

View attachment 16475

The dent in this picture is the space reserved for the next event main building.
Can I ask how many troop producing buildings you have and is there a limit to how many get offered in the MA?
 

Sprite1313

Well-Known Member
is there a limit to how many get offered in the MA?
On the troop producing buildings (like Grounds of the Orc Strategist) there is no limit on how many you can craft in the MA (except the RNG limit of how often they will appear).

I'm later chapter than you, but in between chapters I will drop 15-20 Orc Strats in my settlement space. I have about a dozen of them spread around my city right now.
 

Moho

Chef
Can I ask how many troop producing buildings you have
I have a lot of them, most of which have been earned during events.

I use some Grounds of the Orc Stragegist buildings crafted in the MA. I no longer use Vallorian Valors because my Triumph of the Tides buildings and now Aqua Splendor Sets (i.e. Sirens' Ballets) are more productive.

The following pictures are from a different city, where I have just planted three Genies as well.

Blossoming Brutes produce Orc Warriors, Creepy Clinics produce Rangers, Azure Stables produce Faineant Frogs, Voice of the Prophet produces priests, and Fin Stops and Bumblebee Stables produce Drone Riders.

i35.jpg
i34.jpg
i36.jpg
 
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