Please Rate

[BrinDarby]

I have finished Spire, now going on 1 yr, 6mo, & 6mo in my 3 worlds.
My Frags have platau'd @ 375k, 90k, and 90k, I craft alot and during an
FA, I'll use every last CC I have for residue..... ( neither baby city has any
Moonestone, main city has 2 full sets )

I don't feel there are too many Frags, and I feel bad for @Darielle .
As MagicWorkshops are my #1 prize to win, but to disenchant..... eeeeek !!
Spire participation has more factors than just what the rewards are.
Ever since Moonestone was removed, I get less stuff.... ( on average )
yet I keep playing it all the way each week.
( Frag usage is limited on CCs, with TheManorSet many players now
get equiv of 2 CCs/day. )

Do I want more, sure ..... but I've started new under the older system
(w/moonestone) and also the new system (w/o moonstone )... and
I havent need'd xtra frags or thought there was too many...

I agree with @Dew Spinner , and would hate to see chances for
Frags dropped from 7 to 4, and be more @ the mercy of the RNG.

 

[JessMac]

I have finished Spire, now going on 1 yr, 6mo, & 6mo in my 3 worlds.
My Frags have platau'd @ 375k, 90k, and 90k, I craft alot and during an
FA, I'll use every last CC I have for residue..... ( neither baby city has any
Moonestone, main city has 2 full sets )

I don't feel there are too many Frags, and I feel bad for @Darielle .
As MagicWorkshops are my #1 prize to win, but to disenchant..... eeeeek !!
Spire participation has more factors than just what the rewards are.
Ever since Moonestone was removed, I get less stuff.... ( on average )
yet I keep playing it all the way each week.
( Frag usage is limited on CCs, with TheManorSet many players now
get equiv of 2 CCs/day. )

Do I want more, sure ..... but I've started new under the older system
(w/moonestone) and also the new system (w/o moonstone )... and
I havent need'd xtra frags or thought there was too many...

I agree with @Dew Spinner , and would hate to see chances for
Frags dropped from 7 to 4, and be more @ the mercy of the RNG.

I’m sorry I’m new to the forum and I don’t know what an RNG is. Dew Spinner has come to the dark side of change and the reason being that even though the places offered has dropped the amount has not. So while you only have 4 chances they will carry a heavier pay load.

 

[Darielle]

I’m sorry I’m new to the forum and I don’t know what an RNG is. Dew Spinner has come to the dark side of change and the reason being that even though the places offered has dropped the amount has not. So while you only have 4 chances they will carry a heavier pay load.

Random Number Generator ... to be at the mercy of the random number generator means that a lot of people get lucky and a lot of people get unlucky. There's got to be a fairer system than that.

 

[Darielle]

I plan on only reallocating them. No removal hoping once I do the full list this will help clear that part up. It also hasn’t helped that I’ve revised my original thought on this matter like a million times lol!! I will tag you in the post when I get it out together. I’m hoping for late tomorrow. As I have to unfortunately go back to work tomorrow. Lol I’d rather be trolling my two posts all day haha.

Lol, so have I!

 

[ajqtrz]

I agree with @Dew Spinner , and would hate to see chances for
Frags dropped from 7 to 4, and be more @ the mercy of the RNG.

@BrinDarby @Darielle

You are right that the number of chances you have to get frags is reduced by 3. However, the percentages in the remaining 4 chests remain the same AND the rewards, overall, remain the same.

Here's how it works: I have 7 chances at, say 50% average or I have 4 choices at the same percentage. Thus, 3.5 times out of 7 (averaged over time, of course) I'm going to win Spell fragments in the current system. If the total spell fragments offered over those 7 times is 4000, I'll get 2000 SF on average.

Now if I reduce the chances to 4 and the four chances have the same 50% chance of getting SF's, AND the total SF's offered remains 4000, I'll "hit" on average 2 times. That means I'll get 2000 spell fragments on average....the same as the previous 7 chances. Since the percentages and the total spell fragments remain the same the overall effect is the same. Nobody will lose, overall, any spell fragments.

The only change is I now have 3 chances of winning other prizes, some of which are, by most players, considered "better."

@JessMac

I like the reduction in chances as you go up the gates. That should reduce any worry about being "overgenerous" and lessen the impact. I'd like to see the 4th gate sort of keep the "theme" of the gates in that the first three offer something and the 4 offers one of each. So, Gate 3 should, as you suggest, be 2 teleport. Gate 4 then, would be 1 8hr, 1 5hr, and 1 teleport. I think the extra teleport would actually increase the people playing the gate. AND it, in effect, matches the 3 teleport spells you win in the mystery chest. You're doing a good job leading us through this discussion. It's a lot of work and typing, I imagine, so thanks!

AJ

 

[SoggyShorts]

So while you only have 4 chances they will carry a heavier pay loa

This will worry some players.
If you flip a coin 10x for $10 each you'll pretty much always walk away with something, but if you flip it once for $100 you will often go home broke.

 

[JessMac]

This will worry some players.
If you flip a coin 10x for $10 each you'll pretty much always walk away with something, but if you flip it once for $100 you will often go home broke.

Sorry My son and I got sick so I have not been able to do anything on this. But it’s still been on my mind. I get this point and over all I believe it would be best to disperse the sf in the three gate chests to any and all chest below gate 4 in The Laboratory. This way we are not drastically changing ratios. I believe by doing it this way we could also stick with the devs love of keeping everything repeating at least for the inner chests between gates, Sf get moved away from last 4 gates in tier 3, in the end the amount of so could be SLIGHTLY increased at the other gates to curb the yells of displeasure about amounts and chances….

 

[Alram]

Why not just join a gold spire fellowship? No coding is necessary. You'll get teleports, portal profits, timers, and diamonds.

 

[JessMac]

Why not just join a gold spire fellowship? No coding is necessary. You'll get teleports, portal profits, timers, and diamonds.

I’ve been with my FS since it was started. The other mages and I have put in a ton of work getting us to where we are today. I love my FS and ditching them for a stronger participation rate is not an option for me. And at this current time half our FS is filled with smaller cities unable to achieve gold. This post was never intended for the better of just me. Yes I have crappy weeks. I also once in blue moon have good weeks. My goal! Is yo get to achieve a spire where fellowships DONT have to demand that players achieve certain certain level in spire.

 

[Alram]

I’ve been with my FS since it was started. The other mages and I have put in a ton of work getting us to where we are today. I love my FS and ditching them for a stronger participation rate is not an option for me. And at this current time half our FS is filled with smaller cities unable to achieve gold. This post was never intended for the better of just me. Yes I have crappy weeks. I also once in blue moon have good weeks. My goal! Is yo get to achieve a spire where fellowships DONT have to demand that players achieve certain certain level in spire.

You want the FS rewards without FS effort?

 

[Iyapo1]

My goal! Is yo get to achieve a spire where fellowships DONT have to demand that players achieve certain certain level in spire.

Wait? What?

Ultimately your goal is to move the FS rewards into the individual rewards chests? What will the FS rewards be?

 

[BrinDarby]

And at this current time half our FS is filled with smaller cities unable to achieve gold.

a CH3 city can crush the spire, smaller and they cant play the Spire.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I have not been able to do anything on this. But it’s still been on my mind.

There's no rush- understand that even if inno devs LOVE your idea it'll take 6+ months to implement so delaying the proposal by a few days or even weeks to make it better (or to deal with RL) won't hurt the timeline.

 

[ajqtrz]

This will worry some players.
If you flip a coin 10x for $10 each you'll pretty much always walk away with something, but if you flip it once for $100 you will often go home broke.

True. But if you go back to the same "game" over time you will get the same rewards either way. The odds don't change since the ratio of rewards to number of chances stays the same. If they consistently play the game they will come out even. AND, it might be argued, the "thrill" of winning $100 once every so often is greater than winning $10 ten times more often.

@lyapo1 Since nothing is removed from the mystery chests and nothing from the fs rewards, I'm having a hard time seeing how you see the goal as "move[ing] the FS rewards into the individual rewards chests." So when you ask "what will the FS rewards be?" I'm not sure how it applies.

Why not just join a gold spire fellowship? No coding is necessary. You'll get teleports, portal profits, timers, and diamonds.

True enough, but then the problem, as stated, is the abundance for many larger players, of spell fragments, not the lack of the other rewards. The solution suggested is a more widely balanced third tier distribution of awards so that all players benefit a bit more and the players needing spell fragments receive, overall, the same amount. It's not that the larger players don't get enough of the other things, it's that they get too many of one thing.

AJ

 

[Dew Spinner]

I really do think better prizes in the 3rd floor would increase participation which I would assume is INNO's end goal with the Spire. I see tons of comments on the Facebook Groups, how the 3rd floor is just too expensive for the rewards. By removing the Spell Fragments from the 3rd floor and incorporating them more into the 1st and 2nd floor, I think there would be a lot more Gold Spire FSs.

 

[ajqtrz]

I really do think better prizes in the 3rd floor would increase participation which I would assume is INNO's end goal with the Spire. I see tons of comments on the Facebook Groups, how the 3rd floor is just too expensive for the rewards. By removing the Spell Fragments from the 3rd floor and incorporating them more into the 1st and 2nd floor, I think there would be a lot more Gold Spire FSs.

I'm unsure of how moving SF to the first two tiers would encourage more Gold Spire fellowships. If you leave them in the third tier, as proposed, and increase the value of the other chests in the third tier, that, to me, would increase people doing the third tier and the number of Gold Spire fellowships. Moving the SF to the first two tiers hasn't been proposed but I'd still be interested in how how, if it were proposed and adopted, it would increase the number of Gold Spire fellowships.

AJ

 

[Dew Spinner]

I'm unsure of how moving SF to the first two tiers would encourage more Gold Spire fellowships. If you leave them in the third tier, as proposed, and increase the value of the other chests in the third tier, that, to me, would increase people doing the third tier and the number of Gold Spire fellowships. Moving the SF to the first two tiers hasn't been proposed but I'd still be interested in how how, if it were proposed and adopted, it would increase the number of Gold Spire fellowships.

AJ

I have read a lot on the Facebook Groups, IE., normal players, that they do not do the 3rd floor because it costs too many resources to get Spell fragments, a lot of the times from the chests. If you are going to lose a lot of troops or goods doing a 3rd floor encounter then the "prize" should be more than Spell Ftagments. I have read a lot of other complaints about the meager 3rd floor prizes but the number 1 most frequent complaint is Spell Fragments as a "prize" for a 3rd floor encounter. If INNO wants to further Spire participation and Gold Spire FSs, that will spend DIAMONDS to compete then they have to make that worthwhile. I's kinda like the going all out on a FA, that is just stupid for the crappy prizes. Granted Spire has better prizes but it still leaves a bad taste in a players mouth when they give up a lot of troops or goods on a 3rd floor encounter and get Spell Fragments as a "prize". As long as New/Newer players are compensated by getting more chances to win Spell Fragments on the 1st and 2nd floors and Higher Amounts of Spell Fragments, when the do win them, so as no to hurt them, this is a win/win for every player

 

[ajqtrz]

I have read a lot on the Facebook Groups, IE., normal players, that they do not do the 3rd floor because it costs too many resources to get Spell fragments, a lot of the times from the chests. If you are going to lose a lot of troops or goods doing a 3rd floor encounter then the "prize" should be more than Spell Ftagments. I have read a lot of other complaints about the meager 3rd floor prizes but the number 1 most frequent complaint is Spell Fragments as a "prize" for a 3rd floor encounter. If INNO wants to further Spire participation and Gold Spire FSs, that will spend DIAMONDS to compete then they have to make that worthwhile. I's kinda like the going all out on a FA, that is just stupid for the crappy prizes. Granted Spire has better prizes but it still leaves a bad taste in a players mouth when they give up a lot of troops or goods on a 3rd floor encounter and get Spell Fragments as a "prize". As long as New/Newer players are compensated by getting more chances to win Spell Fragments on the 1st and 2nd floors and Higher Amounts of Spell Fragments, when the do win them, so as no to hurt them, this is a win/win for every player

First, thanks for the explanation. Your idea of moving the SF's off the 3rd tier (and I assume re-distributing them to the first two tiers) or increasing the amount of spell fragments on the third tier would help the low and mid level players who need more spell fragments. The problem with either option though, is that it makes it less likely the devs will accede and "grant us our wishes," so to speak. Here's my thinking on the matter.

If you redistribute the spell fragments to the first two tiers you would have to more greatly increase the value of ALL the chests on the third tier. This would include the non-gate chests. And while the proposal does increase the amount of spell fragments in those non-gate chests the increase is minimal to most players since most are not doing the third tier for spell fragments.

If you just increased the amount of spell fragments on the third tier that, too, would encourage the spell seeking players to do more of the third tier. However, it would also mean the majority of players doing the third tier, who do not need more spell fragments, would not gain anything unless you both redistributed the spell fragments as proposed. The combined ideas would put all the spell fragments in non-gate chests AND increase the amounts so that those chests were worth more. At the same time, the proposal does increase the value of the gate chests, which would increase participation by those not seeking spell fragments. So all the gates in the third tier would increase in value. And they would do so, following the increase in spell fragments, more than the proposal being considered.

So while your idea may encourage players to do the third tier, those seeking spell fragments will be discouraged from doing so if there were no spell fragments offered on the third tier. And if you offered more spell fragments on the third tier the devs would be less likely to go for the changes proposed. It seems to me the proposal takes the middle ground and while it doesn't solve the problem those who need spell fragments have in getting spell fragments, it doesn't hurt them and it encourages third tier participation by making the gate chests more valuable to most players.

AJ

 

[JessMac]

Wait? What?

Ultimately your goal is to move the FS rewards into the individual rewards chests? What will the FS rewards be?

No I’m not trying to change the FS rewards at all.

 

[JessMac]

True. But if you go back to the same "game" over time you will get the same rewards either way. The odds don't change since the ratio of rewards to number of chances stays the same. If they consistently play the game they will come out even. AND, it might be argued, the "thrill" of winning $100 once every so often is greater than winning $10 ten times more often.

@lyapo1 Since nothing is removed from the mystery chests and nothing from the fs rewards, I'm having a hard time seeing how you see the goal as "move[ing] the FS rewards into the individual rewards chests." So when you ask "what will the FS rewards be?" I'm not sure how it applies.



True enough, but then the problem, as stated, is the abundance for many larger players, of spell fragments, not the lack of the other rewards. The solution suggested is a more widely balanced third tier distribution of awards so that all players benefit a bit more and the players needing spell fragments receive, overall, the same amount. It's not that the larger players don't get enough of the other things, it's that they get too many of one thing.

AJ

You’re basically making my rewrite for me! Lol much appreciated!