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    Your Elvenar Team

Poaching of players should be banned

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Marilyn*43

Member
Um, yeah. Because if they are happy, they will stay. If they are getting all the rewards they want, they will stay. Honestly, most players will even stay in dying fellowships if there are 2 or 3 other active members in it out of a sense of loyalty. In several FS's I've been in, these kinds of solicitations are cause for much mirth and we joke openly about receiving them because they aren't a threat.


You keep saying this, but you seem to be missing the fact that these "poachers" can't kidnap your players out of your FS. The player who leaves is choosing to leave. No one is forcing them change FS's. They have been shown an opportunity and they decide whether or not to take it. They choose. And regardless of how much work you may have put into nurturing them, they don't owe you anything in return.
We try our best to joke about it as well. But some do get sad when others leave. I'm not asking anything from the players. Everyone has their goals in the game. I'm asking those that run other fellowships to be respectful of the fact that the player is in a fellowship. Let the player wonder about in the neighborhood map and see if they want to join another Fellowship. I did the same thing. But, it was my choice I felt it was my time to move on.
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
I'm asking those that run other fellowships to be respectful of the fact that the player is in a fellowship.
But all players are already in fellowships. Seriously, find me 10 active players on the server who want to be in a FS and aren't already in one.
You can't, and do you know how I know you can't? Because if you could you'd have more than 15 players in your FS.
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Let me tell you how it is for a "top" FS and why they basically "poach" to survive:*

For the top spire rewards (275 diamonds each plus more stuff) you MUST have 21 players going ALL the way. If you drop under 20 due to real life issues or whatever, then every remaining player loses those rewards every single week until you find replacements. Eventually more will leave to get those rewards elsewhere and it snowballs until your FS is broken.

So, do you send out a message to some great players in "relaxed" fellowships, or watch yours die? Refreshing 25 tabs all day every day in the hopes that a top player suddenly becomes homeless won't work, and neither will a fancy overview page. Gathering players who have similar goals and abilities is (as you know) incredibly hard, and waiting for them to come to you is a recipe for failure.

*Note: some top-achieving FS might be lucky and only.lose players to RL issues at the same rate as they "naturally" attract new ones, but not many.
 
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Sodbury

Active Member
Do you reckon that something simple like the ability to set a "no solicitations" flag for your address would alleviate this somewhat? I'd be happy enough to have a small editable text description as part of my player profile. A player could include their own "no solicitations, please, happy where I am" type message that appears when you click to contact a player. I expect some would respect it.

Or perhaps the ability to temporarily /invite an outside player to participate in your fellowship chat. That way, players who do move on can more easily maintain relationships they established with the players in their old fellowship, and it won't be so hard to see them go.

In any case, I sympathize.
 

Marilyn*43

Member
That is s reality that sucks in it's own right.. I'm just trying to be fair. I'm trying to do what is right. There are high score players that don't want to join a fellowship because of the drama and some make a 1 person fellowship as well. What can I do. I just try to to give my team the opportunity to make things work for them. If I have to struggle to make the last point to obtain the rewards I will. I understand the game and know that the top team is A listers but, please don't kill the teams are trying to make it there too. You know. I just hope that everyone gets a chance at making it to the top. I have a small team and I know we aren't the best in regards to the stats. But, everyone gives it their all. And yeah 15 but, you see how many newbys are there.. The team takes the time to help each other out. They bond. But, as you said they must poach to survive. They should push themselves harder to reach the goal. Some don't want to burn out their supplies just be basic instead of giving it all they have. Sad though. But, you're right. Guess I'm just fighting for the little guys ..
 

Marilyn*43

Member
Do you reckon that something simple like the ability to set a "no solicitations" flag for your address would alleviate this somewhat? I'd be happy enough to have a small editable text description as part of my player profile. A player could include their own "no solicitations, please, happy where I am" type message that appears when you click to contact a player. I expect some would respect it.

Or perhaps the ability to temporarily /invite an outside player to participate in your fellowship chat. That way, players who do move on can more easily maintain relationships they established with the players in their old fellowship, and it won't be so hard to see them go.

In any case, I sympathize.
Yes, exactly.. some of my teammates get constant emails and it becomes annoying. Thank you
 

Katwick

Cartographer
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And happy six months ago doesn't mean happy now. I'm on Hiatus at the moment because Real Life is intruding.

But it works the other way round as well. Perhaps life has calmed down for one of your players, and they're now interested in challenges that your Fellowship is unable to offer.

Finally, are you SURE that the solicitation was as one-sided as it's being presented? Perhaps your ex-member had some feelers out there, and something finally opened up.
 
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SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
If I may interject here, have you tried to send the AM of the offending FS that is trying to poach a Message asking them/their players to stop?
It was the first thing that came to my mind..
If it was REALLY well worded that might work. Something in the direction of

"hey I'm trying really hard to advance this FS, could you please recruit elsewhere while we grow? If we have anyone leaving who says they want a more advanced FS, I can point them your way"

But if you came out swinging like in the opening post of this thread you'd likely just make them recruit even harder.
 

Marilyn*43

Member
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And happy six months ago doesn't mean happy now. I'm on Hiatus at the moment because Real Life is intruding.

But it works the other way round as well. Perhaps life has calmed down for one of your players, and they're now interested in challenges that your Fellowship is unable to offer.

Finally, are you SURE that the solicitation was as one-sided as it's being presented? Perhaps your ex-member had some feelers out there, and something finally opened up.
I suppose.. but, they could've said something. I try to help everyone feel comfortable and have an open discussion about whatever is happening. Family, vacation or even stuck on a level. Hope you are able to overcome whatever RL is throwing at you right now. So you can continue playing the game and succeed in the chapter that you are in to move forward.
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
If it was REALLY well worded that might work. Something in the direction of

"hey I'm trying really hard to advance this FS, could you please recruit elsewhere while we grow? If we have anyone leaving who says they want a more advanced FS, I can point them your way"

But if you came out swinging like in the opening post of this thread you'd likely just make them recruit even harder.
If it wasn't that FS, it would be another FS. There are just too many FS and not enough players to fill them all.
 

Marilyn*43

Member
If it was REALLY well worded that might work. Something in the direction of

"hey I'm trying really hard to advance this FS, could you please recruit elsewhere while we grow? If we have anyone leaving who says they want a more advanced FS, I can point them your way"

But if you came out swinging like in the opening post of this thread you'd likely just make them recruit even harder.
Exactly. Some people do it for spite..
 

Marilyn*43

Member
Maybe you should try to merge with another FS. The player shortage is a direct result of there being too many FSs.
Tried that already only to have them all pull out with their Archmage after they all recouped and gained a higher level.. left me and few of my teammates hanging. Sucks when people have their own agenda
 

Bricon

New Member
I think many are NOT listening to what Marilyn is saying. All she is saying it is disrespectful to try to steal another fellowship member to join yours. She also said you can advertise your fellowship where it is set-up in Elevenar. If a player is not happy in teh fellowship they are in, they will choose what they want to do. I am betting stealing other members has been going on through out the game. Some in here may have been guilty of that tactit and are trying to make Marilyn the bad guy for bringing up the topic. My two cents.
 

getmomo

Well-Known Member
I think many are NOT listening to what Marilyn is saying. All she is saying it is disrespectful to try to steal another fellowship member to join yours. She also said you can advertise your fellowship where it is set-up in Elevenar. If a player is not happy in teh fellowship they are in, they will choose what they want to do. I am betting stealing other members has been going on through out the game. Some in here may have been guilty of that tactit and are trying to make Marilyn the bad guy for bringing up the topic. My two cents.

No, she is saying that players should be banned if they try to recruit people in her fellowship. That's just ridiculous. I get people trying to recruit me, often times from higher level Felliwships than I am in. I'm happy with my FS so I don't leave. It's not stealing, the member chooses to leave or stay.
 

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
Seriously ya'll, it's like mass mailings and telemarketing. If it didn't work, it would go away. The fact that it remains means it must work at least some of the time. Thank goodness that in Elvenar, the ability to use the equivalent of robo-calls and email blasts is severely curtailed. One checkmark on the plus side for an antiquated message/chat system, lol!
We can debate back and forth all day whether it's ethical/unethical, violating some unwritten societal standard or whatever; but that's going to change exactly nothing. It's a bit disingenuous to put the onus on Inno to solve it. They are a global company trying to provide a product to many areas with varying requirements regarding personal privacy, free speech, individual rights of association, product advertising, digital product delivery, etc. etc. etc. To put it bluntly: They ain't got time for that! And, if I were a shareholder in that company, they'd have a lot of explaining to do if they re-routed the significant resources required to implement/enforce such a rule across all their markets.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
I'm not trying to get the communication banned.. I'm trying to say that if a player wishes to move to another Fellowship then let it be the players choice. Every fellowship has a spot to give their spill on how great their fellowship is so that players want to join. Do it there. Kill it. Make it desirable for anyone to want to be there but, respect the fact that a player is in a fellowship. Others have made bonds with them too. Is all I'm saying

It is the player's choice. Just as it's the player's choice to send the message of invitation. One thing you could do is send your fs a msg asking what they think of people "poaching." Start a conversation and you may be surprised at how many of your own members didn't realize it's not kosher in your fs to respond to poachers. By bringing the subject up for discussion you will both reinforce the "no poaching" attitude, inform them that the player base, as a whole, looks down on such behavior (notice I didn't say they think it "wrong," even if "looking down on it" implies such), and learn who, in your fs, might be tempted when approached. All for the good, I think.

And, sadly, the forum is visited by so few players it's almost a non-factor in recruitment. I don't think, in four or five years I've posted on the forum the need for members (like now, to anybody interested in a great fellowship on Khelonaar -- had to get that in), have I gotten a response. The only way to use the forum for recruitment is, I think, to pay careful and consistent attention to "members looking for fellowships" which, if you take more than about 10 seconds to reply, usually means the person has already found a fellowship. LOL!

In the long run then, the players always have a choice and the way to make them resistant to poachers is to make sure they believe they are in the best fit for themselves and that anybody poaching isn't exactly going by the community attitude and you have to wonder what other things they do independent or contrary to the community standards (which, may be wrong or not but aren't usually harmful and best observed).

AJ
 
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