Quite Changing the Rules!!!!!!!!!! Magic Academy!

[DeletedUser1987]

To propose another possible solution to the Magic Academy problem, I'm not exactly sure that players will ever be willing to sacrifice an entire expansion for the Academy, no matter how good the devs make it, because it is a huge investment of space, and in order to realize how good it is, people would have to be willing to take the initial step of building it. And that's a huge step for something so big, if someone's game style doesn't seem to need it.

Why not have the level 1 Magic Academy function something like the Barracks? Make it 2x2, or something similarly small, and then increase in size as it is upgraded? If people consider the Magic Academy integral enough to their playstyle, they will be willing to upgrade it, until it takes up the full 5x5 square. If they don't, they don't, and it won't get in the way nearly as much as the full 5x5 square could be.

As huge as the max level Barracks I've seen in higher scoring players cities is, there's no way I would have been willing to do the quest to build mine if the level 1 Barracks had been the same size as the maximum level. I would've been like no, this isn't worth it. If the level 1 armory had been a 4x4 square like the level 7 armory, I would have resisted it just as much.

It's a brand new feature, and people won't be willing to make the concessions, in terms of city expansion use, that it requires, if they don't feel that it's needed, since it can't be removed. The only way to get them to be willing to make the concessions is to get them to try it, but they will never try it if the initial city space sacrifice remains so high.

 

[DeletedUser1122]

complete a Tournament Sector you'll get a couple of Relics and a couple of Knowledge Points immediately. The current KPs from sectors can overflow your bar, so I wouldn't figure on the Tournament being any different. The end-of-the-week awards are only relics.

So you get 2 sets of relics from tournament sectors immediate and weekly.
The KP's will overflow your bar negating the full benefit of gaining KP by stopping KP hourly production.
They indicated that the rules of engagement have change for tournaments fighting. You think they made it easier? or will I finally get a Treant or a Necromancer. Hey I got a spell ideal....

 

[DeletedUser627]

An extra 32 or so Relics per week will eliminate many of the current objections to the Magic Academy

With 32 Relics we can make 16 Spells that make little or no significant difference in gameplay. Someone help me here - can a player even make 16 spells in a week with a level 2 (free) Academy?

Let's see: 16 Spells...we could boost 4 manufactories for 13 hours, get a few goods; if I already have a 125 culture bonus, I can get 10% more tax / supplies for 2 days; then I'll have 10 Spells for supplies to get 200% for 10 hours. So 5 days of the week we see zero benefit from Spells derived from Tournaments.

We relinquish 25 grid spaces, we spend time fighting for Relics, then we spend the Relics by making spells, then we have to carefully supervise the implementation of the Spells to maximize their value...and the end result? Less than we'd get if we devoted the 25 grid spaces to standard production.

 

[DeletedUser]

And actually, it takes 2 weeks to acquire needed relics, since you can only fight for one kind of relic each tourney (at least as far as I understood from the April video). You will at that point have enough to make 32 spells. And you'll only hit a relic type you need for one kind of spell 2x out of every 9 weeks.... yeah. I'd rather have standard production, working 24/7. Less muss, less fuss, less cost and more benefit. Deduct the cost of troops & negotiations to figure your profit margin. Throw into the mix to that the fact that your score will also increase with standard production (Magic Academy: Score=0. Houses/workshops/manufactories=score and potential to increase score as you progress through the tech tree.).

 

[DeletedUser627]

.. Deduct the cost of troops & negotiations to figure your profit margin. .

Well, duh...how did I miss that? Good call.

 

[DeletedUser]

I find myself wondering what the heck the fuss is all about? Yes the Magic Academy takes up space. However it does give very useful spells when used properly. I think the team at Elvenar implimented it as best they could to reduce fallout. The mere suggestion of creating another tier in the research tree is just to put it midly stupid. With so many different players who are at all different levels of the tree there was no way around how they implimented it. It would not have worked to completely add another tier to the tree. And at which point would you have suggested they add it along the exixting tree if you did not like going back for it? The same issues apply that with so many different players at so many different areas of the tree it would be impossible to make everyone happy. Are you then going to say they should have given it out for free without any research or effort on your part? Come on folks. You are complaining just to have something to complain about.

The bigger concern to me is the new provance tournaments. I play Elvenar because I got tired of playing city building games just to have other players come in and wipe out my efforts with an attack. I do NOT want any sort of PvP if it means my city will be attacked. I would like to see more information released about the tournaments and how the PvP is going to work before forming any opinion on it. In fact if the team at InnoGames had actually pre released the information about how they were going to impliment the Magic Academy into the game I think there would have been much less backlash over it. Just need to get them to actually inform us before hand so we are prepared. Just my 2 cents.

 

[DeletedUser]

Irishna - If you watch the April Inno Games episode (sorry, no link, but I think it's on the main announcements page of the forum), the Provincial tournaments are NOT adding a PvP element to Elvenar (good job, Elvenar team!). Essentially, the tournaments will focus on a specific kind of province, and you will be able to fight all the encounters of that province again to earn KP, relics and "tournament points". All the tournament points from your neighborhood are added up, and if together you reach certain thresholds, then everybody gets extra relics. So you're still competing PvE, with a cooperative element. I admit, I was a little nervous when they teased this, but I think the team did a good job of creating something in keeping with the spirit of Elvenar.

 

[DeletedUser1122]

I find myself wondering what the heck the fuss is all about?

Since the fuss is on ALL inno forums I suggest you read up on the International forum, Beta forum and of course here. If you have a ability to read dutch or german you may glem additional information although there is a common thread in all the forums: too big; to magicless; too worthless spells. Don't be upset, I missed that the tavern had very stale beer per hexagon

creating another tier in the research tree is just to put it midly stupid

That is what a dev will lets us know. All ideals may have some warrant. Don't judge.
Have fun

 

[DeletedUser1122]

I admit, I was a little nervous

About the twist they are going to add to fighting to "keep it interesting"? Seems funny that its a neighbourhood "fellowship" that will gain the maximum benefit. It will be a good way to get rid of all the extra troops you have although fighting on 2 fronts (province and neighbourhood) has not worked in the past.

spirit of Elvenar.

Typically a city builders game does not include fighting. Simcity may have been a little more fun though

 

[DeletedUser]

Since the fuss is on ALL inno forums I suggest you read up on the International forum, Beta forum and of course here. If you have a ability to read dutch or german you may glem additional information although there is a common thread in all the forums: too big; to magicless; too worthless spells. Don't be upset, I missed that the tavern had very stale beer per hexagon

That is what a dev will lets us know. All ideals may have some warrant. Don't judge.
Have fun

I do respect your opinion and reply. But do not discredit mine or assume I have not read anymore than just 1 thread or forum. I have as much right to my opinion as anyone else does. I may not agree with the "in crowd" but that is okay. I do not mind taking the road less traveled. The scenery is much nicer and less congested. Happy Gaming

 

[DeletedUser627]

Yes the Magic Academy takes up space. However it does give very useful spells when used properly.

When you say that players are making a fuss over nothing, and then imply it's because they're not using the Spells "properly"...you increase the odds of receiving a retort. If you start saying that another's suggestion is "mildly stupid", then you leaves oneself open to suggestions that you've also perhaps missed the obvious. At least 6pac was polite enough to point out that we all tend to overlook some factors when making opinions.

I looked at your Dwarven level city, and it does look nice - Congratulations! Given that your space utilization is concise, it surprises me that you like putting 25 grids into the Academy. But I notice you have a lot of workshops in relation to your manufactories - so I'm wondering if perhaps you can only tend your city once a day , or twice? You have a very nice score for a non-pay city - do you mind sharing how you feel about the future of a Level 2 Academy? In general I'm asking because your city otherwise doesn't look "less traveled" - it's well-managed for its size and cost. This makes me genuinely curious as to why you like the Academy, since it will disadvantage you when it becomes yet another way that paying players have significant advantages.

 

[DeletedUser]

When you say that players are making a fuss over nothing, and then imply it's because they're not using the Spells "properly"...you increase the odds of receiving a retort. If you start saying that another's suggestion is "mildly stupid", then you leaves oneself open to suggestions that you've also perhaps missed the obvious. At least 6pac was polite enough to point out that we all tend to overlook some factors when making opinions.

I looked at your Dwarven level city, and it does look nice - Congratulations! Given that your space utilization is concise, it surprises me that you like putting 25 grids into the Academy. But I notice you have a lot of workshops in relation to your manufactories - so I'm wondering if perhaps you can only tend your city once a day , or twice? You have a very nice score for a non-pay city - do you mind sharing how you feel about the future of a Level 2 Academy? In general I'm asking because your city otherwise doesn't look "less traveled" - it's well-managed for its size and cost. This makes me genuinely curious as to why you like the Academy, since it will disadvantage you when it becomes yet another way that paying players have significant advantages.

My intent was NOT at all to imply originally that players were making a fuss over nothing. Nor was I implying that anyone else was using spells improperly or that their idea was stupid. If that is the impression I gave then I did word my comment wrong and for that I apologize. I did not mean to offend anyone at all. I cannot say what anyone but myself does. I was speaking only from personal experience having built and the academy and all the spells created by it.

I do thank you very much for the compliments on my city. I am infact a very active daily player. I am on this game several hours a day not just once or twice. I have spent many many hours reworking and aranging my buildings in various ways to find the best use of space given. Yes, I am one of those dreaded "paid" players. I do not spend a lot at all and am very picky as to what I purchase with the diamonds I buy. You will not see a lot of paid content in my city because I use the opportunity for the extra expansions instead. This solves the 'space' issue. I currently have 2 free available expansions to place more buildings should I choose to do so. As far as the workshop vs. goods production buildings go. I believe in quality vs. quantity. Having fewer buildings and upgrading them as high as you can will give you far more production than amassing more buildings than necessary. I focus on boosted goods and trade for non-boosted goods. When you get higher up in levels trust me you will need the extra supplies. ie: 10k supplies per 1 dwarven track and so on. Onto the magic academy. With the addition of my AW's in combination with the spells I use my neighbor help (culture) gives a tremendous boost not only in duration but in amount as well. The supply boost greatly increases the output of supplies per workshop and same with the goods spell. For example say your culture is sitting at 125% and you start a production in a lvl 15 workshop for the 15 minute time frame. Your production without a spell will be 440 supplies every 15 minutes. If however you set the production then cast a spell on that building it will now produce a little over 1000 supplies every 15 minutes. That is over a 600 supply increase. It adds up. So yes I think the sacrifice to giving up realestate is worth it in the end game. This is how I can keep my goods production buildings to a minimum saving far more space in the long run. Oh 1 academy vs 2 more production buildings. Yes, I would totally upgrade my academy with diamonds. For me it is a no brainer. (speaking only for myself here not anyone else). Just as valuable as those premium expansions were/are.

 

[DeletedUser]

6-pac - I'll admit that I'm not exactly excited about the idea of more combat added to the game. I already find the combat boring and time-consuming. It's my least favorite thing to do. But I guess my comment earlier was more along the lines of ... it could have been worse. At least there's no PvP and at least they've heard us and given us a cooperative effort where we are not all competing for scarce resources at the expense of others. They were going to do the tournament anyway - at least it's something that is consistent with the ideals of Elvenar as a place where players interact to promote mutual good. And at least a couple days a week it'll give the players who are waiting 2-3 days for scouting something to do...

 

[DeletedUser43]

Irishna,
If you are a paid player, and you buy expansions, then essentially the requirement of the magic academy has cost you the amount of an expansion. Now, if you wanted that building, then there is no issue. But, if you didn't want that building, then that might be a problem.

I don't have any additional culture. I use my space for different things. Therefore, there is no spell that I can use to increase my culture. If you don't have over 100% culture, that spell does not work. As far as supplies go, I could use that space for a giant magic academy, or I could put up another workshop. The workshop would never cost me my finite supply of relics. And as far as goods go, I don't have any need for extra.

So, to me, that building doesn't provide any benefit at all. It is in my way on beta, sitting there idle at all times, and I curse it every time I need that space for something else. That is why I am upset.

I have lost a quest line because of this stupid building. I can live without it, but the story line quests were fun, so I am sad they are gone. But story line quests certainly aren't worth the cost of having that building to me. So that is why I am upset.

But mostly, this is a city building game and we should be free to build a city the way we want. If not, what is the point? If all our cities have to look exactly the same, then there is nothing fun about the game. Increasingly, that is where we are heading. Choices keep being taken away from us, and as far as I am concerned, that is equivalent to taking the game away from us. It is sad.

 

[DeletedUser2062]

My question with the magic academy is, why can't it be like the AW buildings? Build it for a cost, delete and rebuild it for a cost if you want it back. I agree with Bobbikitty, I want the space for other things, I don't mind the quests but when the quest for that is completed then let me move on. Let ME decide what goes in my city. This is frustrating for me and takes the fun out of it.

 

[DeletedUser594]

My question with the magic academy is, why can't it be like the AW buildings? Build it for a cost, delete and rebuild it for a cost if you want it back..

I've had the same question and personally I think its a misstep by the dev's. They've put this building at the same level as a trader and barracks as a permanent required building. The only thing I can figure is that they consider the upcoming province fighting tournaments a core game mechanic like trading and fighting and requiring this building forces your hand a bit toward engaging in the tournaments if for no other reason then to get a few relics for you academy.

The bigger concern to me is the new provance tournaments. I play Elvenar because I got tired of playing city building games just to have other players come in and wipe out my efforts with an attack. I do NOT want any sort of PvP if it means my city will be attacked

That won't happen. The devs are focused on cooperative effort activities -

let's say that I only make Provision Spells, and I've paid for a Level 5 Academy. I can make 6 Spells per day (until I run out of Shards?). So, on any given day, only half of 12 Workshops can be Spelled, and the Spell only lasts for 10 hours. Total benefit is then 100%, not 200%, reduced by the 10 hours, the total possible boost is 40%. So

I like the speed and directness of using the spells- more importantly than overall boost. Previously if you ran out of supply you would run quests as much as you could, return whatever Nh you hadn't and then just ...wait. With 4 or 5 boosted workshops and 140% or 160% additional boost from spells (or even without) you can crank out supply and build back up rather quickly. That's how I tend to use them. During periods of high demand when I don't want to wait forever to get something started

 

[DeletedUser627]

Irishna, thank you for the considered reply. Yes, at early Dwarven it's still possible to be maintaining your 125% Culture Bonus, but it will become increasingly inefficient and more frustrating to maintain.

Through Dwarven, it still remains that, for an active player, the most efficient method is to utilize the declinable quests. 6 -8 workshops will supply an entire city: 24/7 Barracks production, Scouting, 21 T1, 9 T2 and 6 T3's. Some players don't like scrolling through the declinables 3 times every 3 hours...but 13,000 supplies every time through, well - it's a big reward for the effort.

With the Academy, let's say that I only make Provision Spells, and I've paid for a Level 5 Academy. I can make 6 Spells per day (until I run out of Shards?). So, on any given day, only half of 12 Workshops can be Spelled, and the Spell only lasts for 10 hours. Total benefit is then 100%, not 200%, reduced by the 10 hours, the total possible boost is 40%. So, in your city scenario, building an Academy and running only Provision Spells, the maximum benefit to your 12 workshop city is 40% of your usual output. At your current level 2 Academy, I forget how many hours are required to make one spell - is it 3 per day? the benefit is below 20%.

The higher level Workshops finally start showing some real benefit when Spelled - my L18 3-hour production is 2840, so 3 times that is nice. But it's still producing less than the Quests - so it doesn't feel spectacular. It doesn't feel Magical to only 1/2 the time be able to do what I have already been doing for months with Quests. It seems even worse when we're advocating for players at your level and much lower - because you can get 13k Supplies every 3 hours just for popping down 2 L1 workshops.

 

[DeletedUser]

I do get all of the points made here and respect them. Every one of us have a different playing style which is perfectly acceptable. Speaking on my own personal style, I care less about the mathmatic equations and mechanics behind each action as opposed to just enjoying my game. I follow the KISS system. So I have less stress when playing.

Sure there are features the developers have horribly gone wrong on and I could certainly do without. My take on gaming is not to sit and try to analize time/cost/space but rather to make the best uses of what I am offerd. I hated math in school and still hate it today. I love the challenges presented and seeing if I can accomplish working around them. Also if you are giving up on culture you are only hurting yourself in the end. Culture is very important in this game. Again, it goes back to quality vs. quantity. Would you truly rather bog your city down with a ton of extra production buildings rather than leveling them up to get max benefit out of them? I honestly do not understand that concept. Rethinking that system would truly save a lot of space which would allow you the freedom to add the culture buildings you need. Which by the way I was just giving examples. I was not stating I only have 125% culture.

As you pointed out, you were surprised that I am doing so well with the buildings I have. I put a lot of thought into my city in order to maximize benefits, save space and truly get by fairly well. I mean in a game like this it is very interesting to see how everyone goes about reaching their goals. I love hearing all of the different ideas and thoughts from other players. What is most interesting is how differently we all reach the levels we do. Maintaining a rank over 100 is hard enough but useing different methods to maintain over 50 rank is awesome. I commend anyone who accomplises that no matter how they got there.

 

[DeletedUser594]

I do get all of the points made here and respect them. Every one of us have a different playing style which is perfectly acceptable. Speaking on my own personal style, I care less about the mathmatic equations and mechanics behind each action as opposed to just enjoying my game. My take on gaming is not to sit and try to analize time/cost/space but rather to make the best uses of what I am offerd. I hated math in school and still hate it today. I love the challenges presented and seeing if I can accomplish working around them. Also if you are giving up on culture you are only hurting yourself in the end. Culture is very important in this game. Again, it goes back to quality vs. quantity. Would you truly rather bog your city down with a ton of extra production buildings rather than leveling them up to get max benefit out of them? I honestly do not understand that concept. Rethinking that system would truly save a lot of space which would allow you the freedom to add the culture buildings you need. Which by the way I was just giving examples. I was not stating I only have 125% culture.

As you pointed out, you were surprised that I am doing so well with the buildings I have. I put a lot of thought into my city in order to maximize benefits, save space and truly get by fairly well. I mean in a game like this it is very interesting to see how everyone goes about reaching their goals. I love hearing all of the different ideas and thoughts from other players. What is most interesting is how differently we all reach the levels we do. Maintaining a rank over 100 is hard enough but useing different methods to maintain over 50 rank is awesome. I commend anyone who accomplises that no matter how they got there.

For some players it is irrelevant if they bog down their city with this or that- they will do it bcs they are achievers and want the points. For people who fall into the explorer category figuring out the mechanics is exactly how they enjoy the game. Your take on gaming suits your type and your city approach reflects it as well. If you would like to understand why some bog down their city with high point buildings or spend hours tinkering to figure out the game mechanics you can take this test to get your gamer type and I'll post some links to info on the Bartle gamer types as well.
http://4you2learn.com/bartle/
groyup name iluvatar
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[DeletedUser627]

Would you truly rather bog your city down with a ton of extra production buildings rather than leveling them up to get max benefit out of them? I honestly do not understand that concept.

I'm glad you don't understand such a crazy concept, since I don't either. Fortunately I don't think we know any players who have "tons" of extra buildings that aren't leveled up.

Also if you are giving up culture you are only hurting yourself...Rethinking that system would truly save a lot of space which would allow you the freedom to add the culture buildings you need. Which by the way I was just giving examples. I was not stating I only have 125% culture.

I you haven't reduced to 125 or below by Fairy, the game makes it mandatory.