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Discussion Rebalancing of select (old) event buildings

tesstee

Member
@Ælfwine Quote copied from announcement (it wouldn't let me do an actual quote) "...If you want to know if any of your buildings will be rebalanced, we have provided a list for you (open the spoiler below)..."
Maybe it's just me, but I can't find the spoiler.

if anybody else wants to see the list and what buildings are affected from when I was able to do a copy paste from the post:
Our earliest event buildings (from events hosted in 2016 until early 2017) had significantly higher bonuses than their counterparts of later events. We have since avoided giving out these buildings, for this reason. Now that we want to allow upgrading for all event buildings, we need to streamline the values of all event buildings, which means that older buildings need to be rebalanced to make them more in line with more recent event buildings.
Leaf Codex
Sun Codex
Lava Codex
Crystal Unicorn
Silver Unicorn
Rainbow Unicorn
Summer Flower Cage
Spring Flower Cage
Rainbow Flower Cage
Bronze Guards
Silver Guards
Heroic Banner
Noble Banner
Dark Signpost
Glossy Garden
Father Tree
Observatory
Venar's Rocks I
Venar's Rocks II
Venar's Rocks III
Wonky Walters
Charming Tree
Scream of Halloween
Daunting Pumpkins
Snow Flake Mountain
Castle Snow Flake
Tower of the Winter King
Winter Star
Frozen Lake
Snowball Fight
Lazy Snowman
Igloo Festival
Glacier Garden
Lampion Winter Pond
Winter Pond Habitat
Temple of the Flame
Temple of the frozen Flame
Father Glitter Tree
Father Tree of Candy Canes
Father Frozen Tree
Frozen Unicorn
Candy Cane Unicorn
Winter Deers
Snowy Charming Tree
Frozen Flame Blue
Frozen Flame Orange
Frozen Flame Green
Frozen Flame Purple
Winter Lampions
Winter Shrine
Winter Forest Shrine
Forest Igloo
Frozen Tree Stomp Magic
Gaelagil's Balcony
Burukbrak's Bridge of Love
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
It is not hard to get into the top 5 of a wonder, if you're only 1 of 5 (or less in some cases) donating. The tricky part is to know where to look! (but lets not start a debate if that is the "ethical" thing to do. I know some people don't like that tactic, but this how the system is set up so move on. Don't blame me, blame the system! ;))

I didn't say it was a KP nerf, I said it was a tech tree advancement nerf. Yes, i'm getting a lot more KP now and its been a huge boost for my wonders. However, you can't tell that if I started a city today, I'd be in Fairies in about 16 weeks now that wonders KP can only be spent on wonders... That, my friend, is a nerf to the tech tree advancement.
And I'm not saying it isn't a nerf, only that it's a minor one. One for which they deployed a corresponding bonus that gave most players an overall net at the same time.
 

DeletedUser5521

Guest
"Oh sure we'll have residences, but then we'll just have event buildings that would make residences useless so that everyone can build those instead!"

The Event Buildings are just an option to have in the city, a reward for the work put into the Event in which they were won. They are limited, can only be won at the RNG's discretion, and available for only a short time. They may come around again, or something comparable, but in the meantime, if you intend to grow your city, you'll still need resies. Yes, some people seem to have many of a particular Event Building, but for the most part, average players will probably have, maybe, 1-5 of any given Event Building, adding some variety and pleasing aesthetics to the looks of the town. They're not meant to make resies useless, and they won't, no matter how awesome their stats. And with the shift in recent Events to Set Buildings, there is less opportunity to go for random hybrid buildings AND still get the set buildings, and I believe that is one of the ways they (the devs) chose to control how many sweet pop/cult buildings one might win in a given Event. So I, personally, don't think there is a threat of resies becoming useless. (But I did think it was nice that I had a couple buildings in my city that made it so I just didn't need so darned many of them lol :p )
 

The Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
I have a question because everyone wants to keep dragging FOE into the discussion (has been mentioned on a couple of the threads). People saying that having these OP building will allow veteran players to basically stomp on newbies.

Is FOE a PvP game? if so then saying veteran players can stomp on newbies here is a fallacy as we are not a PvP game and the only thing that veteran players have over newbies is score and ranking and there is nothing gained by those in game - just some bragging rights. (And diamond players will ALWAYS have the advantage there regardless of a few OP buildings).
The PvP is quite limited in FoE compared to pretty much every other actual PvP game out there...
The problem with the balance in FoE, is that older players have fields of certain event buildings (*cough*shrineofknowledge*cough*) and they make it very, very difficult for newer players to get anywhere...
Even within various guilds (FoE's version of Fellowships), the old players who can farm 300-400+kp's per day from their event buildings/GB's and the like thus take all/most of the Great Building blueprints (aka: AW runeshards) for themselves for example.

And when the name of the game is really all about kp's, it thus makes a two-tier game where newer players are at a marked disadvantage. :(
 

DeletedUser4441

Guest
Seems like the Magic residence could be a good solution. Gonna hang around a bit longer and see how that goes.

Everyone will receive this so you should thank us for our whining and complaining!!!
 

stephenr10

New Member
When we see an upcoming reward and we collectively go along the lines of, "good god - that building is as a good as fully-upgraded residence from the next chapter - and only 3/4 the size? load up on 'em boyz & girlz!!"
We end up kinda responsible when the company in question then realises their mistake, and goes back to nerf these handful of overly powerful buildings.

We have no responsibility for trying to do the best we can. When it is made available by the game itself. It is not like someone is using cheats. The game provided the buildings( which say when you click on them that the numbers are permanent). You would be foolish not to take advantage of what the game gives you. The real issue is if the need to make a change, they need to do right by the players that they deceived. The number were not permanent, better option needed to be given to the people who were harmed.
 

Nectar of the Gods

Well-Known Member
I don't mean to be condescending, and but I put it to you to answer the "how"? If not this way, then how? Here is the state of play:
1. Inno made some buildings that are "too powerful" compared to equivalent buildings (mainly Glossy Gardens and Winter Stars vs current event buildings).
2. Players want the ability to upgrade event buildings (this has been an overwhelming request).
3. Upgrading Glossy Gardens/Winter Stars/etc. would worsen the "overpowered" problem.
4. The "overpowered" buildings need to be brought down in strength to accomodate #2.

So what better alternative does Inno have?
They could have 2 versions of each overpowered building I suppose. So that your Ch. 5 Garden, and my Ch. 5 Garden which I upgraded from Ch. 4 have different values. Seems hard to do programming-wise, and very clunky.
They could have given everyone an upgrade spell immediately. That would have been nice, but it seems like there's a reason Inno hasn't done that yet (and the reason cynically just might be a cash grab).
Or they could do something else? But I don't see how people expect Inno to square #1 and #2 without breaking a few eggs, so to speak.

Many people in this thread have answered the "how". I'm not going to rehash it, though I do think the "legacy building" a good idea. It would have answered your "difficulty of programming" concern.

I don't think that any building was "overpowered" and needed to be adjusted. If they didn't want people to have those pop/culture bonuses anymore on those buildings, all they had to do was stop recycling and giving them out during events. I don't know, how about their artists making a new building? Remove the horn and put wings on a unicorn and change the stats. Simple and done. Btw, you are talking about two buildings being affected. Have you seen the list of those that were "adjusted"?

As far as upgrading the old buildings, if they wanted to do that and the building was already too powerful at the start, then make the initial upgrade on those buildings smaller than on other buildings. Frankly, I'm betting that upgrading the culture buildings means I'm not going to be able to do it because it requires something I don't have and can't reasonably get--like blueprints. I am in 4 FSs and not one of them completes all the chests in a Tournament. I never get a blueprint. So, for those upper level FSs that can take all the chests the rest of us have to suffer? Isn't that special.

Your #2 is incorrect. Not all players want upgradable event buildings. I would say most just want to be left alone and not have what they have worked for, sometimes paid real cash for, be lessened over what a few vocal people want. I may be wrong. I'm betting, however, I'm not. The outrage I'm seeing in the FSs and here in the forums says differently.

I have a question for you now that I've answered yours. Why are you defending the developers actions that have caused so many of us major pain? What's in it for you?
 

DeletedUser3507

Guest
Premium players that use magic workshop and magic residences, and buy premium culture have a higher expectation of relevant communication no matter what you think.

And Elvenar has never been up to par on this.

I have considered quiting quite a few times, and I drop $150 on this game monthly.
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
If I could sum up my feelings on this it would be something like: Any time you take agency away from the players, you engender ill-will. Even a poor choice is better than no choice. The current deployment not only took agency away, but did it with inadequate communication. Now the attempted easement of that loss is by giving something to everyone. So those who took the greatest hit get substantially less than they lost, while those who took no hit at all will still gain exactly the same "compensation."

There is pretty much nothing about this that is an improvement.
 

DeletedUser12171

Guest
Premium players that use magic workshop and magic residences, and buy premium culture have a higher expectation of relevant communication no matter what you think.

And Elvenar has never been up to par on this.

I have considered quiting quite a few times, and I drop $150 on this game monthly.

Yes. In reference to the couple of posts I made relating to the expectations of paying customers - I was making the point that we don't own what is effectively the intellectual property of the company. So when someone says "I paid for the building and I demand you change it back or return me my money", they are quite misled in their thinking.

Communication - this is quite a separate issue, not related to whether one pays or not, and which I do agree the company could do better in
 

DeletedUser3507

Guest
Also that's why I hate set-building I prefered to buy 3 Temples Of The Elements than participate in something that would be nerfed in the future.

And I have never seen them nerf a premium building.:p At least so far...:rolleyes:
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
When we see an upcoming reward and we collectively go along the lines of, "good god - that building is as a good as fully-upgraded residence from the next chapter - and only 3/4 the size? load up on 'em boyz & girlz!!"
We end up kinda responsible when the company in question then realises their mistake, and goes back to nerf these handful of overly powerful buildings.
The event building have to be that good.
What's the alternative?
"Ohh look, a building that is the same as my residences....yay."
 

DeletedUser3507

Guest
But the event building does not use culture and gives it instead so even if it's the same you gain.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
But the event building does not use culture and gives it instead so even if it's the same you gain.
With the loss of coin production, the little culture difference is almost a wash.

A building the same size as a res that gives the same pop only has the no road advantage, and some culture.
The no coins disadvantage, and needing a Royal Restoration spell to keep it viable next chapter would make choosing to go for those prizes a bad option. Certainly not as good as going for instants or military buildings.
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
With the loss of coin production, the little culture difference is almost a wash.
In fact, that's been the case for several events now. I don't even try for the buildings any more because they just aren't worth the effort to find room for when I'm going to need to replace them in a few weeks. Since last summer, I go strictly for time reductions and military boosts, and the only buildings I've been getting lately are the ones for finishing an event.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
In fact, that's been the case for several events now. I don't even try for the buildings any more because they just aren't worth the effort to find room for when I'm going to need to replace them in a few weeks. Since last summer, I go strictly for time reductions and military boosts, and the only buildings I've been getting lately are the ones for finishing an event.
I'm getting about 50% of my pop from event buildings( I had to check, I thought it would be ~30%), and so far I've had no problems replacing them with new event buildings before they go stale.
Since the devs buffed chapter 12 buildings and are adding the RR spell, this should remain a viable strategy going forward.
 

DeletedUser12171

Guest
The Event Buildings are just an option to have in the city, a reward for the work put into the Event in which they were won. They are limited, can only be won at the RNG's discretion, and available for only a short time. They may come around again, or something comparable, but in the meantime, if you intend to grow your city, you'll still need resies. Yes, some people seem to have many of a particular Event Building, but for the most part, average players will probably have, maybe, 1-5 of any given Event Building, adding some variety and pleasing aesthetics to the looks of the town. They're not meant to make resies useless, and they won't, no matter how awesome their stats. And with the shift in recent Events to Set Buildings, there is less opportunity to go for random hybrid buildings AND still get the set buildings, and I believe that is one of the ways they (the devs) chose to control how many sweet pop/cult buildings one might win in a given Event. So I, personally, don't think there is a threat of resies becoming useless. (But I did think it was nice that I had a couple buildings in my city that made it so I just didn't need so darned many of them lol :p )
Exactly, so if people would take event buildings for what they are, maybe this change wouldn't be such a big deal. People say the event buildings were not game breaking and might not even have needed rebalancing. But all these wails and shouts seem to indicate otherwise - that they are indeed a game breaker for many because they build entire cities around having event buildings! To me, this is exactly proof that event buildings have been used beyond their intended purpose and need to be rebalanced
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
Exactly, so if people would take event buildings for what they are, maybe this change wouldn't be such a big deal. People say the event buildings were not game breaking and might not even have needed rebalancing. But all these wails and shouts seem to indicate otherwise - that they are indeed a game breaker for many because they build entire cities around having event buildings! To me, this is exactly proof that event buildings have been used beyond their intended purpose and need to be rebalanced
You're exaggerating. I doubt anyone's city is entirely built around event building. That might have been the case when certain buildings first came out, but that naturally fell away over the following months, as it should. I have a pretty large collection and cutting them in half still only represented about 10% of my population, and even that was partly made worse by the fact that that I get quite a bit of population from Ancient wonders, which dropped along with the other drop. I think most of the frustration is about the standard poor handling of the rollout. They specifically introduced the news function so players could be informed of important updates, but they never seem to remember to use it for the things that players most need to know. The only thing in my news is that there will be a fellowship adventure starting on the 10th of May. To quote a certain Commander-in-Chief, "Sad."
 
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