Rebalancing of select (old) event buildings

[Ashrem]

Yes sir, but discussing this after the fact is not likely to change things, especially given the way Inno has responded on similar things before.

That is true for almost anything any company does. The primary goal of players should be to ensure the developers understand there was (from our point of view) an error and hope it doesn't happen again.

If you complain, things still probably won't change, but if you don't complain, they definitely won't change.

 

[The Unbeliever]

Upgradeability that far less than 10% FS can achieve and this is supposed to be a valid reason? i don't doubt they will introduce a tourney difficulty increase shortly to slow down the game as well that will further make the 10 chest option harder on most members of the game

FoE has had the ability to upgrade event buildings for roughly 2'ish years now... while the 1-up/reno kits were difficult (or just expensive due to diamond use) to obtain initially, they're to the point that they're now rather common.
So while the new RR spell will likely be initially difficult to obtain when it's first released here, don't be surprise that as time goes on, and we get more events, that we'll see them drip-fed through out the game beyond just "10 chest only" items.

As for the lackluster (okay, all but useless!) set buildings... well, I'll admit, we FoE players kinda borked that one, with Inno's help of course.
When initially introduced to the other game, the first 2 sets were both;
a) grossly powerful, as in, you could easily run your entire city needs on just the set buildings!
b) very compact in size, making it quite easy to fit 15-20 into any decently advanced city. (the largest was 'promoted' as an 8x4, but could be worked to gain all bonuses technically as a 4x6 due to duplication)

Imagine for example, a Dwarf or Fairies chapter city that had nothing but maybe 6 token residences, 5 workshops, their barracks/armoury and then nothing but set buildings, which would still give them better production vs. just having that same amount of space in boosted factories?!
Kinda nuts, ain't it?!
Oh, and for the added kick in the pants, that city would also generate 60-80+ kps per day from the sets too!

And of course, like pretty much every game dev out there, instead of just tweaking our set buildings once they introduced them, Inno just nerf batted the ever living gak out of them, so now they're huge in size & generally fairly useless for production.

 

[DeletedUser10196]

oh and giving me a spell to restore 1 building thats all well and good if that can replace the pop loss from all but ofc it wont.... and wheres this soo called list showing which buildings been screwed ive looked and havent found anything its not on the important thread or here so yeah a spoiler is where you pre warn us not after just saying. rant over

here is the link to the list, but of course I don't remember what the population was to begin with in the building. So I much I lost in each is unknown. The rainbow unicorn was on the list and it now shows 51 for population and culture now.
https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/rebalancing-of-select-old-event-buildings.16283/

 

[DeletedUser10196]

Wasn't there a list of affected buildings somewhere? On Beta maybe? I can't find it and the list is missing from the announcement. Can someone post it here? Thank you!

https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/rebalancing-of-select-old-event-buildings.16283/

 

[Ashrem]

but of course I don't remember what the population was to begin with in the building. So I much I lost in each is unknown.

Elvenarchitect has a complete list of the old and new values so you can see exactly what happened to each building.

 

[Deborah M]

This dog is growling! Top of the forum or not, labeling it.... may contain spoilers does NOT give anyone heads up that this is a must read! Your event buildings are about to be nerfed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As mentioned before many of us have LIVES! And do not read every little thing on the forums. I do love this game but not the way changes are done. I get why people are ticked! Been working since the change and am now down 2000 pop. I am deleting all event buildings and will not build another no matter the enticement due to the way they handle things. Will not get caught like this again! I am soothing ruffled feathers in my fellowship as best I can. Many of us are stalled and so far nobody has left but wont be surprised if I lose a couple people.

Almost too funny on a morning that a neighbor knocked on our door to complain about our dogs barking. Had to run them outside because of a smoke alarm malfunction that was setting them completely crazy Anyway, I get that a lot of people apparently don't read the forum often. Sounds like maybe only when there is a problem. I would think that if they do come to the forum they would at least check the ones pinned to the top since my assumption would be that those are the ones Elvenar wants people to pay attention to for "important" information. That is still my opinion.

That being said, please read what you quoted. "LOL! Unbelievable how many times it has been said that this has been in the conversation pinned to the top of THIS forum since April. I guess it is like a dog with a bone syndrome even when proven wrong " Please note the emphasis on "THIS forum". This was written in response to it being claimed over & over & over that you had to be on the Beta forum to have any access to any knowledge that this was coming. It had been said many times that the information was on this forum in the conversation you refereed to. It simply got very old hearing about having to be on the Beta when that was not true.

 

[Ashrem]

That being said, please read what you quoted. "LOL! Unbelievable how many times it has been said that this has been in the conversation pinned to the top of THIS forum since April. I guess it is like a dog with a bone syndrome even when proven wrong " Please note the emphasis on "THIS forum". This was written in response to it being claimed over & over & over that you had to be on the Beta forum to have any access to any knowledge that this was coming. It had been said many times that the information was on this forum in the conversation you refereed to. It simply got very old hearing about having to be on the Beta when that was not true.

Deborah, I understand the point you are trying to make, but it is inexcusable to expect that everyone will dig through a miscellaneous thread labelled "Spoilers" for information that is important to their game play. That is simply a ridiculous expectation and it is not reasonable to expect that everyone will visit the forums and look through a spoilers thread that has a dozen different subjects in it to see if anything important to the future of their game is included somewhere several pages in. Using it as evidence that people aren't paying attention is utterly ridiculous. That boat just won't float.

 

[DeletedUser8129]

Those of us above 100K can adjust. My only problem is with my players who are scored in the 50K and below range. They do not have the resources to prepare. It is a chore to keep them motivated and engaged in the adventures, events and etc... These type of changes should be posted in the game. Clearly and Detailed. Very few players read the forums. No one really understands a disaster until it has happened.

 

[DeletedUser12171]

Those of us above 100K can adjust. My only problem is with my players who are scored in the 50K and below range. They do not have the resources to prepare. It is a chore to keep them motivated and engaged in the adventures, events and etc... These type of changes should be posted in the game. Clearly and Detailed. Very few players read the forums. No one really understands a disaster until it has happened.

You are right, many people, up and down the ranking ladder, don't venture out of the game at all. until Inno gets their communication act together, I'd suggest you get one or two members (or even make the effort yourself) to frequent the forums, or better yet, play the beta. In a FS of 25 people, chances are you'd have at least a couple who are already doing that, or would be willing to do that.

we could go into an endless debate about whose responsibility it is to make sure players know things, but bottom line is this - in the current environment, doing as I suggested above is your best bet to put your FS in an advantageous position

 

[Deborah M]

Deborah, I understand the point you are trying to make, but it is inexcusable to expect that everyone will dig through a miscellaneous thread labelled "Spoilers" for information that is important to their game play. That is simply a ridiculous expectation and it is not reasonable to expect that everyone will visit the forums and look through a spoilers thread that has a dozen different subjects in it to see if anything important to the future of their game is included somewhere several pages in. Using it as evidence that people aren't paying attention is utterly ridiculous. That boat just won't float.

Good Lord! I have said this multiple times. I wasn't saying they had to read it. The point of that quote was that they didn't have to be on BETA and that had been said multiple times. I give up. I don't know any way in the English language to make it more clear. I could have sworn I was on the US Forum

 

[Ashrem]

What you said isn't particularly confusing. The most reliable interpretation of the context of your meaning is wrong.

 

[SoggyShorts]

If people did not build their cities around having so many event buildings, they would not have been so affected by the changes
You can disagree, that's fine.

No actually I can't disagree, as this time you have stated an absolute fact.
Just like
if players hadn't built the Crystal lighthouse, they wouldn't have been effected by that nerf.
if players didn't build the Golden Abyss before chapter 5, they wouldn't have been effected by that nerf.

However, saying that any change wouldn't have hurt a player if they had played differently kinda sounds like you are putting the blame on the player for doing something wrong. Either that or you are saying something super obvious like "Your shoes wouldn't be too tight if you didn't wear shoes."

How, may I ask, is this relevant to the discussion?

I think it would help me understand your position and perspective if I had more information about your playstyle, that's why I asked if I could see your main city.
If THIS is your only city, then you lost about 1,000 pop, putting you at -931, which makes your position surprising. On the other hand, that city hasn't had a score change in 5 months, so it would seem like speedy progress isn't part of your playstyle, which might explain your position better.

 

[Deborah M]

What you said isn't particularly confusing. The most reliable interpretation of the context of your meaning is wrong.

What is not clear English by definition of " It had been said many times that the information was on this forum in the conversation you refereed to. It simply got very old hearing about having to be on the Beta when that was not true." I made it very clear what the point was.

 

[Ashrem]

What is not clear English by definition of " It had been said many times that the information was on this forum in the conversation you refereed to. It simply got very old hearing about having to be on the Beta when that was not true." I made it very clear what the point was.

First, I said what you wrote is perfectly clear. Most people are going to treat a thread that has both "beta" and "Spoilers" in it as being both Beta and spoilers. If they don't want to get into either of those things (not both, but either) then they can't be expected to think they should be looking in that thread for information that matters to them. thus, the information is not "available" to them.

Can you imagine what that thread is going to look like the next time something important comes up? It's going to have pages and pages and pages of stuff about every upcoming FA and Event and change to the game. If they actually treat it as indicated, it will be a hundred pages by fall, with 95% of it being irrelevant to most players. The fact that the Beta spoilers thread exists, does not make the information "available on these forums" as most people understand those words.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

Btw, you are talking about two buildings being affected. Have you seen the list of those that were "adjusted"?

Your #2 is incorrect. Not all players want upgradable event buildings. I would say most just want to be left alone and not have what they have worked for, sometimes paid real cash for, be lessened over what a few vocal people want. I may be wrong. I'm betting, however, I'm not. The outrage I'm seeing in the FSs and here in the forums says differently.

I have a question for you now that I've answered yours. Why are you defending the developers actions that have caused so many of us major pain? What's in it for you?

I only mentioned 2 buildings because those were the 2 biggest offenders. The majority had improvements, so I didn't mention those, and many were buildings that you could only have 1 instance of (e.g., you can't have multiple Scream of Halloweens or Gaegils Balcony).

I didn't say all players wanted upgradeable buildings. I said many. And if you follow the "suggestions" forum, and the Timon and Rike Q&As, you'd agree that it has been a constant request from dozens of unique players. I don't think characteriznig this change as something a vocal minority wants is accurate. I don't want upgradeable buildings because I participate in every event. So whether I upgrade old event buildings or win new ones, I'm the same off. I don't care.

The outrage you're seeing is people wanting to have their cake and eat it too. They want amazing event buildings (see every event thread in the past 12 months of people complaining about the strength of the rewards), and they want to be able to keep them around forever. People ask for game changes all the time, and they almost never acknowledge that an improvemnt on one end needs to have a corresponding in-game change that makes life harder.

There's nothing in it for me for "defending" the developers, other than recognizing that I want an improving and evolving game. If anything, that should give credence to my arguments. I wish Inno was giving me diamonds for my forum posts, but you can see from the lack of premium buildings in my city that its simply not the case.

 

[DeletedUser12171]

However, saying that any change wouldn't have hurt a player if they had played differently kinda sounds like you are putting the blame on the player for doing something wrong.

You call it blame, I call it taking responsibility. As I mentioned, a substantial amount of my pop was from candy cane trees when I won them. I recall now that I won them in dwarves. They were 720/720 pop/culture and I had 5 of them. Without them, I would most surely not have been able to afford to upgrade my factories/workshops at the rate that I had done then. However, as you and some others also said, I outgrew them. I kept them all through fairies and ditched them at the start of Orcs precisely because a combination of chapter-maxed residences and chapter-unlocked pure culture would outperform them. So while I did build my city around having 5 of those buildings, I also moved out of reliance on them quickly enough. Another part of the reason was that in the Spring event, I went for the GPs and could not get new non-GP hybrids without spending diamonds (and I was unwilling to), so without chapter-updated event hybrids, I decided to do away with event hybrids altogether and shift to a regular pop/culture build

I think it would help me understand your position and perspective if I had more information about your playstyle, that's why I asked if I could see your main city.

At this time, I'd prefer to keep that to myself. However I will describe my situation

I am currently in Orcs and have 4/4/4 T1/2/3 factories. I have 10 regular workshops and about 40+ regular residences. Excluding Grand Prizes, I only have two hybrid event buildings - Wedding Altar and Menhirok's Barrow, both chapter 7 (fairies). I have a barracks, TG and 3 armories. All my buildings are chapter-maxed atm. I probably am somewhere between low-to-moderate on the spending scale. My next premium expansion costs 5,300 diamonds (you can work out how many I bought already). I have a Lv5 BH and MA, and a couple of magic res. Both my GA and MH are at least Lv6, and my WT and Sanctuary are at least Lv7. My FS regularly gets 10 chests in tournaments

 

[DeletedUser3116]

Dear Bank,


Something has definitely happened with my account. a few days ago I had over $1,600 in my account, now I am at a negative. What is the deal? Two years ago when you opened you CD , the interest on it was 3.5%, and it has been running for the past two years on that. We recently changed our interest on that type of CD to .8%, so we had to revalue your CD to reflect the current rate and recoup some of the interest. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this has caused you. Here, have a toaster on us.

 

[Ashrem]

You call it blame, I call it taking responsibility. As I mentioned, a substantial amount of my pop was from candy cane trees when I won them. I recall now that I won them in dwarves. They were 720/720 pop/culture and I had 5 of them. Without them, I would most surely not have been able to afford to upgrade my factories/workshops at the rate that I had done then. However, as you and some others also said, I outgrew them. I kept them all through fairies and ditched them at the start of Orcs precisely because a combination of chapter-maxed residences and chapter-unlocked pure culture would outperform them. So while I did build my city around having 5 of those buildings, I also moved out of reliance on them quickly enough.

Good. Now what about a player exactly identical to you, except they only play once a week for a few hours on Saturday morning and they haven't finished fairies yet? Because they play slower than you, they get less value than you did, and haven't come to the point that they are done with those buildings. What exactly is their responsibility for this? That they should be playing more often? Is that really the message you think they deserve to hear?

 

[DeletedUser3116]

Dear Bank,


Something has definitely happened with my account. a few days ago I had over $1,600 in my account, now I am at a negative. What is the deal? Two years ago when you opened you CD , the interest on it was 3.5%, and it has been running for the past two years on that. We recently changed our interest on that type of CD to .8%, so we had to revalue your CD to reflect the current rate and recoup some of the interest. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this has caused you. Here, have a toaster on us.

 

[DeletedUser12171]

Good. Now what about a player exactly identical to you, except they only play once a week for a few hours on Saturday morning and they haven't finished fairies yet? Because they play slower than you, they get less value than you did, and haven't come to the point that they are done with those buildings. What exactly is their responsibility for this? That they should be playing more often? Is that really the message you think they deserve to hear?

You are missing the point, as soggy did when he used the example of building CL/BS before the nerf, or GA before the nerf.

The point is this: I took advantage of the mechanic of chapter 6 candy cane trees being better than regular residences for dwarves through fairies. I got my benefit. I'm lucky I outgrew them before the changes but even if I didn't, I don't feel it to be a shortchange, because I did already benefit from it while it lasted

The same goes for the CL/BS. People who built their cities around getting goods from hundreds of NH a week, got their advantage and benefit while that mechanic lasted. Or the GA. This is and will be true for whatever changes that had come and will come.

One other thing is, at the end of the day, those who stay ahead of the game will always find a way to get more out of it than others, nerf or otherwise. This mechanic stopped working? Well then I'll find another! No biggie. It's more a matter of mindset then anything else really