Recruiting from Fellowships?

[Deleted User - 107391]

I'm guessing my fellowship doesn't act much like the more advanced fellowships. All that bouncing around is not in accordance with my playing style.

Essentially, Talisman, I agree with you; but most of the above kind of got off the original subject of the thread.

Rather than 'bouncing around', what Bobbykitty is talking about -

I'd love to see (... Katwijk ...) put together a map ... so if I wanted to trade with anyone, I could do it by giving it to one member who can then hop it over to the next player.Or we can always use the trading post for big trades between fellowships.

- is leaping *goods* from fellowship to fellowship. and Katwijk was suggesting a chart to keep track of things -

Consider the following approach. ...Trading Post... Spreadsheet ... trades into the spreadsheet...sort Goods by quantity...Visit a candidate city from your list,...their world map a... recognize any of the nearby neighbors...you may have to work a bit of magic to get everybody talking to each other, but you'll know in advance that they will be able to execute a large mutually beneficial trade, and that's a pretty major incentive..

The 'bouncing around' from fellowship to fellowship would not suit me, either. Committing to one fellowship is, to me, part of the game. However, in the interests of bringing needed goods back to my fellowship, I will visit the Trading Post.

 

[DeletedUser]

Essentially, Talisman, I agree with you; but most of the above kind of got off the original subject of the thread.

Rather than 'bouncing around', what Bobbykitty is talking about -

- is leaping *goods* from fellowship to fellowship. and Katwijk was suggesting a chart to keep track of things -



The 'bouncing around' from fellowship to fellowship would not suit me, either. Committing to one fellowship is, to me, part of the game. However, in the interests of bringing needed goods back to my fellowship, I will visit the Trading Post.

I'm mistaking "fellowship" for its original intention of the word. Do whatever you can to benefit your guild.

 

[DeletedUser61]

All that bouncing around is not in accordance with my playing style.

Desperate Times call for desperate measures. The "bouncing around" is one of the reasons why I try to avoid excess capacity.

Bouncing around is a symptom, not a solution.

 

[DeletedUser]

Desperate Times call for desperate measures. The "bouncing around" is one of the reasons why I try to avoid excess capacity.

Bouncing around is a symptom, not a solution.

I'm adverse to agreeing with you, but, yes, I do agree. I nearly always have enough of every good, and I give it out when I can.

 

[DeletedUser627]

As so often is the case, I stand in amazement as the ability ot Katwijk to divert a thread.

The first page discussion began on the OP's topic of solicitation and allegiance to fellowships. Baba mentioned "shortage" of supplies and how that related to an occasional need to visit the Trading Post (i.e. leave one's fellowship momentarily). The next post, KJ says "hey presto!", turns that into his wisdom about avoiding "excess" supplies... AND Ladies and Gentlemen - we're off and running!

The diversion has its intended effect. as everyone becomes sidetracked to the point where KJ can drop another pearl "Desperate times call for desperate measures". Really? How does this relate to Riggs' original question? How can one be so presumptious as to disrespect an OP's poll by turning it into a bully platform for a pet theory?

This isn't politics. This isn't Facebook. This is Elvenar - a fantasy community based on cooperation and mutual respect. It's not an environment to promote one's own self-interests to the detriment of others - making fantastic claims that are like a self-invented religion named "Clickless". Funny thing is, I'm all for your expression of extremism. Pursue your dream of an eventual self-perpetuating city where you make one click and everything falls into place like a row of dominoes. Wax lyrical about how pleased it makes you when you can produce less and less by eliminating clicks and unnecessary buildings. Write odes and ballads to the perfection of your clickless society. I'll join in with you in celebration and even participate in theoretical discussion should you decide come down from the mountain long enough to actually confer with any human.

But, I like my big-a** city. I loooooove my excess goods. In fact, the more excess the better. My pursuit of a dream is to have 500k of every good in my Main Hall, so I can set up a fellowship to start an Arendyll bank. You need to shut up your criticism of how I - and many others - operate our cities.

You're the lucky happy camper who just so happens to be sitting in a rare sweet spot in this game. You actually like playing less and less and less. You're probably the only gamer in the history of gaming who is so fortunate as to want to play less and simultaneously be sitting in a game where the developers concurrently want their players to play less. It's an oxymoron, and a fluke rather like winning the lottery. But stop thinking you're "right". You're just in the right place at the right time. (I won't go into the rampant speculations that you're not in this spot by accident.)

You gloat. It's unattractive. You're not going to convince anyone that a smaller city with virtually no goods is the perfect true expression of Elvenar. It's your expression - thus it's valid. But I'm not going to allow you any peace herein until you start recognizing that the expressions of other players are equally valid.

 

[DeletedUser61]

But I'm not going to allow you any peace herein until you start recognizing that the expressions of other players are equally valid.

If you're reading all of the threads, you're wearing very selective blinders.

Win at All Costs is the bumper sticker, and while it's a perfectly valid playing style it's not my thing.

The CORE NOTION in this thread is that folks with EXCESS GOODS desperately need trading partners to justify their playing style. They may present it as "charity" or "helping out new players," but the simple fact is that they have TOO MUCH JUNK, and they're demeaning other Fellowships that aren't so driven.

The excess inventory folks have ALREADY set up a Trading Post, AND they're encouraging folks to change fellowships. Trading is one of the PRIMARY drivers for aggressive recruiting and the consequent fellowship hopping, which is the subject of this tread.

 

[DeletedUser1053]

The Core Notion of this thread is about the validity of soliciting players to leave their current fellowship and join a different one, not for the temporary purpose of trading, but for a permanent place to play.

Multiple people have derailed this thread from its core purpose. I don't mind the discussion that has occurred, but I would please ask that it be taken to a different/new thread.

 

[DeletedUser61]

but for a permanent place to play.

Do you really think that they're going to throw the fish back into the sea, once they've found somebody who can balance their inventories? It's not likely.

 

[DeletedUser626]

Do you really think that they're going to throw the fish back into the sea? It's not likely.

i think of fish as goods to use as food, to be traded for at the market.
The goods traded are put back into the market, no matter how unlikely you may say.

If you're reading all of the threads, you're wearing very selective blinders.
The CORE NOTION in this thread is that folks with EXCESS GOODS desperately need trading partners to justify their playing style. They may present it as "charity" or "helping out new players," but the simple fact is that they have TOO MUCH JUNK, and they're demeaning other Fellowships that aren't so driven..

demeaning other fellowhships for being perfectly balanced to each other cities in goods production at all times, is not the intent at all for the trading post. some fellowships have members in it that they enjoy, regardless of what boosted goods they make or how spreadsheet data of factories production tallies add up.
for those fellowships that are not perfectly balanced, the trading post option to get balanced is offered. best wishes to you on your spreadsheets sir.

 

[DeletedUser627]

Riggs, I visited your city and fellowship - it looks nice. I like the content of your fellowship description, too.

Do you think fellowships in your range are soliciting in order to get certain goods, or are they trying to increase their rank? At one point there was some solicitation among the top 10 fellowships specifically to see who could get to No1.

On a related note: I noticed that Ice Dragons is going to run a little low on gems and silk at some point. Would you prefer 1) that your Archmage kick out players with duplicated boosts and then solicit players [from other fellowships] who have the boosts you need? 2) keep going the way things are [or will be] and everyone is a bit stymied by the lack of these two goods 3) pool the goods you have the most of and send a player to the Trading Post to trade with another fellowship? And, of course, bring back the goods and distribute them in whichever manner you all determine.

Do you really think that they're going to throw the fish back into the sea, once they've found somebody who can balance their inventories? It's not likely.

This sounds like an inference that the Trading Post is some plot to get players away from their home fellowships and keep them. How devious is your mind?! There aren't any active members in the Post - only someone's secondary account as Archmage placeholder. By rule, no player is allowed admission into the Post without their Archmage's consent. By rule, they may only remain for 24 hours (unless the post gets busy and there is specific consent granted) By rule, trades are on par - basic for basic, crafted for crafted, etc. This so that fellowships have to establish their own reasonable balance of goods, but aren't hampered due to the fact that the group happens to have more silk boosts than scroll. By rule, there is a zero solicitation policy - not even indirect solicitation.

The Post is a courtesy, offered by players specifically in response to the OP's concerns voiced in his initial post. I started soliciting players based on the notion that fellowships needed to better balance their boosts....only to find that players seemed to care more about who they played with than the troubles associated with running short on goods. This was pleasantly surprising, so we developed a simple way for players to have their cake and eat it too: play with your friends - like a tribe. Occasionally come to the Post and trade with other tribes. No pony raiding involved.

Riggs, as you receive solicitations, maybe you could mention the Trading Post...or ask the purpose of the solicitation. We'd like to know more about newer players and how they're responding to the game.

 

[DeletedUser61]

By rule, there is a zero solicitation policy - not even indirect solicitation.

Am I to suppose that papering the forum is not "indirect solicitation?"

I've seen several such "noble efforts" in both World of Warcraft and in Forge of Empires. No matter how well intended they ALWAYS seem to end up being pernicious, because they are fundamentally an attempt to paper over a flawed economic model.

There's also a second danger. In Forge of Empires there's a fee for trading outside of a Guild, and a group of itinerate traders were subverting that tax by "making the rounds" every day. In large part that's why there's now a restriction on how long we have to wait BEFORE we can rejoin the same fellowship.

If the Brokerage House concept subverts the need for proper economic planning, and the effectiveness of the 50% markup incentive for discovering your neighbors, InnoGames will take remedial action. You can plan on it. What part of "thrive on their own" don't you understand?

 

[DeletedUser626]

Am I to suppose that papering the forum is not "indirect solicitation?"?

I thought it was pretty direct for the parties that would benefit, not so much for those in the utopia neighborhoods, and fellowships running factory production in unison for perfect harmony.

What part of "thrive on their own" don't you understand?

hmm "thrive on their own" refers to who? is that the game style where everyone made non-boosted and kept them upgraded to meet research requirements, and negotiations?

we had that before fellowships, inactive non-trading neighbors is that your idea of a city "thriving on their own"?

the game thankfully has fellowships.. perhaps it's time to evolve from building a city "thriving on their own", and embrace the social dynamics, and economical opportunity of a world economy.

 

[DeletedUser1053]

Riggs, I visited your city and fellowship - it looks nice. I like the content of your fellowship description, too.

Thank you. We try to make it nice. We are less concerned with rank as with enjoying the game. I personally am very competitive by nature, but I will not do anything I consider to be bad form.

Do you think fellowships in your range are soliciting in order to get certain goods, or are they trying to increase their rank?

I would think they are soliciting new members based on goods, but it is not a hard/fast rule. If people come to us, we are open to that as well no matter what their boosts are.

On a related note: I noticed that Ice Dragons is going to run a little low on gems and silk at some point. Would you prefer 1) that your Archmage kick out players with duplicated boosts and then solicit players [from other fellowships] who have the boosts you need? 2) keep going the way things are [or will be] and everyone is a bit stymied by the lack of these two goods 3) pool the goods you have the most of and send a player to the Trading Post to trade with another fellowship? And, of course, bring back the goods and distribute them in whichever manner you all determine.

Thankfully I have a large number of people around me who actively trade, 8 I have 'discovered' and several more I have traded with, but are not ones I have 'discovered', and I have never had any trouble getting what I need.

Kat, if I were playing this game for a profession or doing the things in real life, I would be doing things the way you suggest. You appear to by intelligent and have some very good ideas. However, this is a game and people have a right to play the way they wish. There is no correct or incorrect way to do so. Some are more effective than others, but this also depends on the reason people are playing the game. I have been playing this style of game for about 30 years. I realized long ago many people think differently than I and there is no way I will ever be able to change anyone. Some people may be able to adjust their thinking, but that is something only they can do. I understand the frustrations many players have, even if I don't agree with many of them. You are probably correct in that Inno may decide to correct the trading 'fix' by having a minimum return time. There are ways around that as well. Even if I were not in my fellowship, I would be able to trade with a member without a tax.

As long as there are rules, people will be looking for shortcuts and ways around them.

SDG,
Riggs

 

[DeletedUser1053]

Kitty, I disagree that his way is lazy. Some may not enjoy it, but it is a valid way of playing. It also takes an extreme amount of planning and intelligence. What I disagree with is acting as if one way of playing is better than another. Obviously some ways are more effective than others, but this is one reason we play. Some people play simply to socialize with others, and though I disagree with that, since I enjoy working toward specific goals, it is still a valid reason to play. Everyone has their own reason and or goals. I would ask all people to not denigrate others because they play differently than you or I. If you have advice, that is fine. But advice is just that and the player has the right to accept or ignore it. There are those in my fellowship with a wildly inefficient city-layout. I have given general advice and offered to help privately. It is no longer my problem. If I allowed how others choose to play adversely affect me, then I have issues I need to get over.

Apparently there are 2 factions here in the forums. Unfortunately, few seem willing to see the validity in what the others are saying and it becomes a sniping contest. Please stop. This is a game. There is no need to get personal and either directly insult, or covertly insinuate. I teach middle school and see this sort of behavior enough.

 

[DeletedUser43]

Honestly?

Ok. I will leave his nastiness unanswered.

Deleting my post.

 

[DeletedUser]

Kitty, I disagree that his way is lazy. Some may not enjoy it, but it is a valid way of playing. It also takes an extreme amount of planning and intelligence. What I disagree with is acting as if one way of playing is better than another. Obviously some ways are more effective than others, but this is one reason we play. Some people play simply to socialize with others, and though I disagree with that, since I enjoy working toward specific goals, it is still a valid reason to play. Everyone has their own reason and or goals. I would ask all people to not denigrate others because they play differently than you or I. If you have advice, that is fine. But advice is just that and the player has the right to accept or ignore it. There are those in my fellowship with a wildly inefficient city-layout. I have given general advice and offered to help privately. It is no longer my problem. If I allowed how others choose to play adversely affect me, then I have issues I need to get over.

Apparently there are 2 factions here in the forums. Unfortunately, few seem willing to see the validity in what the others are saying and it becomes a sniping contest. Please stop. This is a game. There is no need to get personal and either directly insult, or covertly insinuate. I teach middle school and see this sort of behavior enough.

I find myself falling into that rut of defensiveness, even though I fight not to. But is it a bit of a different monster regarding Katwijk, who, since I have joined the forums and probably well before, has gone out of his way to be rude for no reason, and not lashing back is difficult, which usually has nothing to do with his ideas, but his mannerisms.

 

[DeletedUser627]

Am I to suppose that papering the forum is not "indirect solicitation?"

.....
If the Brokerage House concept subverts the need for proper economic planning, and the effectiveness of the 50% markup incentive for discovering your neighbors, InnoGames will take remedial action. You can plan on it. What part of "thrive on their own" don't you understand?

Solicitation implies that I'm asking someone for something. Pretty hilarious - I don't need anything outside of what my fellowship provides. I made it pretty clear that players enjoy the interpersonal aspects, and the Trading Post simply allows players to not be punished for enjoying each other's company.

If Inno wants to ignore this concept - which may suit FoE, but is contrary to the player profile they're targeting - so be it. Again, I've never seen instructions in game from Inno requiring "thrive on their own". Boosted manufacturies remain a clear indication that players are supposed to depend on one another, and it's just par for the course if Inno expects players to make assumptions contrary to their own game strategies.

Riggs - from your perspective, you're correct about the two factions. As I mentioned previously, I'd be happy to enjoy and appreciate KJ's perspectives, if he would do the same. Unfortunately, he will not. His continual insults are overlooked, because they're couched as pseudo-pithy endlines. He has called us every name in book - all without rebuke.

I am sorry you're catching the end of this. I keep wondering if we should abandoned the forum and leave KJ to be king of virtually nothing...

 

[DeletedUser1999]

I have played other games where there were groups. It does not matter whether they are called fellowships, alliances, guilds, or anything else.

I have been propositioned multiple times now to leave my fellowship and join a different one. I am not asking about if I choose to contact another fellowship, but if they contact me without prompting.

What are the opinions here about whether that is acceptable or not?

I'm trying to find out if there is a waiting period if you are already with a fellowship and you leave can another fellowship immediately take you or is there a waiting period?

 

[Maz Mellor]

I'm trying to find out if there is a waiting period if you are already with a fellowship and you leave can another fellowship immediately take you or is there a waiting period?

As I understand it, another fellowship can immediately take you unless you have both joined and left another fellowship in the past 24 hours.

Regarding the question of recruitment, might I offer a (relatively) new player's perspective, anecdotal though it be? The first fellowship I joined was one that several of my near neighbors belonged to. After joining that fellowship, I continued to offer NH to other neighbors who were not fellows, two of whom began to offer me NH on a near-daily basis. I thought this was remarkable enough that I messaged them to say thanks. In the brief exchanges that ensued, one of them said that if I ever got to thinking of leaving my current fellowship, I should let them know, as they had some vacancies in theirs. I thought that was a nice offer and said so.

In the fullness of time—OK, like, a few weeks later <g>—I did leave that first fellowship, because being in it had taught me (rather ironically) that I wanted more fellowship than it offered. That is to say, I found I wanted to be a part of a group that traded more, visited more, chatted more, and also paid attention to the balance of boosts among the membership. I was sorry to leave the original fellowship, in a way, because I liked some of the people, such as I was able to get to know them (especially the Archmage). But my present fellowship—which I found through a recruitment post in the Arendyll Forum, thank you very much!—is a much better fit for what my playing style turned out to be. I am grateful to the more experienced users who post frequently on these boards (Bobbykitty, Bobbipiazza, Varron, Insanity Talisman, Lyleth, Aydenn...), who gave me some idea of the range of fellowship experiences available, and to that neighbor of mine, for indicating to me that switching fellowships is a Thing People Do.

As an aside, I think it's super cool that those two neighbors continue to bless my city, along with some of my now-former fellows (who are also neighbors, as I said). I continue to visit and sometimes trade with them. And I wonder about the evidently active players in my neighborhood who never return-visit me, even when they semi-regularly accept my trades. I guess it's all down to playing style, and some people just aren't down with the more social/cooperative aspects of the game. Or are they just that competitive—or that tired of clicking, clicking, clicking?! I don't have hurt feelings or anything, it's not that; I'm just... bemused? That might be the right word.

Apologies, Riggs, if I have now taken your thread even further off topic than Katwijk. I did have good intentions, I promise! And, I would be interested to know other folks' anecdotal experiences of Neighborly Relations—or switching fellowships, or whatever. Because I suppose I am down with–slash–fascinated by the social/cooperative aspects of the game.........

 

[DeletedUser627]

A...... And I wonder about the evidently active players in my neighborhood who never return-visit me, even when they semi-regularly accept my trades. ..... I would be interested to know other folks' anecdotal experiences of Neighborly Relations—or switching fellowships, or whatever. Because I suppose I am down with–slash–fascinated by the social/cooperative aspects of the game.........

Some of the active players in your neighborhood may not have discovered you yet, so they can't visit. Otherwise you're right, some people just play differently.