Red Panda - should it be Fed all the time? (HIGH CHAPTER QUESTION)

[MichaelMichael]

This is a question only for those that have completed most if not all of the Elvenar chapters - if you haven't completed chapter 17 or so this is a moot point. It is not worth it. Also if you don't do at least 35 provinces in the Tourney and complete the spire every week, this is also not a question you can answer. Frankly, you probably need to be top 50 in Tourney performance (>7,000 points) to understand the issues involved. After completing the last FA, I am debating this question. During the FA, I did exactly that to earn a whole heap of Arcane badges as well as a lot of other stuff.

This is only a question for well developed cities with a good natural source for CCs. I have 10 Moonstone Libraries with a level 16 Dragon Ark. Consider this, with a the Red Panda, I can average 4 Vision Vapor per CC, so it takes 25 CCs to get a Mystical Object. It is a reasonable expectation that I could get One Mystical Object every day if I don't use many time instants for either the spire or for troops. The crafting items are mix of useful and useless. Time and coin instants as well as Pet food and combat building are must buys, but high Vision vapor per CC are also buys so you also take some useless building and relics. The question is whether one mystical object per day is worth giving up the troops you might have gotten for those instants. Mystical Object are pretty random but the most common in order are Time Instants, 35KP or a useless building. Occasionally it also gives troops or 500 diamonds.

I tend to be goods oriented in Spire and tourney - generating about 5 million goods each day. My troops are generally only good for the first 20 or so provinces (after that I mostly use goods) despite having 4 or 5 building and a Fire Phoenix and a Twilight Phoenix. I open 50 provinces and complete each 4 times for the spells they yield to generate the goods I need. It is a separate thread on how I generate 5 million goods a day but just trust me (or look up the posting with screen shots on the Twilight Phoenix debate).

So the questions is:

Are mystical objects worth the effort of using 1 pet food every 3 days and a lot of time instants?

I am in parallel upgrading my fight AWs but I don't really understand how that path works past about 35 provinces without cheating (ie buying buildings like the 9 Twilight Phoenixes, as the top player on my map has to earn 25,000 tourney points a week). If anyone has adopted the strategy of always feeding the Red Panda, I'd appreciate your observations.

Advise is appreciated.

 

[defiantoneks]

i'm in the middle-ish of Team Spirit. I think this is an issue of personal play. Do "I" think it's worth it to use up that much pet food and time boosts? No. But you may. Perhaps the deciding factor is, what are you hoping to get from the mystical object? if you're pushing your luck and resources to increase the potential for a diamond chest, then yes I'd say you're going to "need" to hurl as many resources at it as you can. For the way I play and what I expect, I stick to crafting only what I actually want instead of everything available just for the Vapor.

 

[Henroo]

Personally the only time I feed the Red Panda is during a fellowship adventure in order to help make Arcane Residue badges. During this period I am time boosting my craftings and am also using Sips of Clarity to flip the magic academy so I do not have to wait for more options. FAs are also the only time I use Sips.

 

[crackie]

Haven’t seen diamonds out of Mystery Object chest in months and I craft a lot because I have multiple Moonstone sets to support the habit. I am with @Henroo. Not worth it except during FA.

 

[Killy-]

This panda has not seen any food from me, my 400 pet food are way too precious.

 

[Talaedraiia]

I’m with @Henroo and @crackie. The MA is suppose to give diamond, but I haven’t seen a single diamond since they changed the output and I never received very many before that. The only time my panda eats is during an event and he seems to be doing fine

 

[mucksterme]

Add me to the Henroo club

Also, this past FA I had 30 mystical objects saved up. And by the time I used up all my clarity I had about 5 more.
Out of all of them I got diamonds once.

 

[MichaelMichael]

I have decided to do the experiment. I don't really miss the pet food. It is more the time instants that are expensive. Basically, to keep things going, I don't get any troops off time instants. I have been doing it now for a couple weeks. After about 4 weeks, I will report back. I still can use a few for Fire Phoenix and Brown Bear each week, as well as my ashen Phoenix during events.

I am pretty sure my strategy is pretty unique. I maintain my goods production at about 5 million a day by exploiting the wholesaler to the max. I support that level of production by completing 50 provinces 4 times each week during the tourney. Keep all those things plus a mystical object once a day (or more often) puts me on the edge of what is possible but does not impact my ability to maximize upgrades. The biggest problem I have is a constant need to trade for my boosts. Nine (9) tier 1 and Five (soon to be 7) tier is not enough to keep up with wholesaling. I agree that getting the diamonds is unlikely - I think I got 500 just once in two weeks. I am hoping some of the other items may accumulate, particularly coin instants as those have become more valuable as I use the wholesaler more.

The flip side is I am trying to get my fighting ability (or at least production) up. Needles (30), Shrewdy Shrooms (20), Flying Academy(27), Simia Sapien (just 13), Sanctuary (16) are my top priorities for upgrade. On the goods side, most are 30+, but the individual troop bonus AWs are spotty - no Hero Forge (heavy melee) with the rest as follows; Victory Springs (18: Light Melee), Needles (30: Light Range, previously listed), Dragon Abbey (21: Mages), Toads (7: Heavy Range). I am prioritizing troop production over quality, perhaps that is right or wrong. Unsurprisingly, I boosted the troops I can boost with building a bit more. Any advise, from this group, on how to fight better is appreciated.

 

[mucksterme]

Dragon Abbey (21: Mages), Toads (7: Heavy Range). I am prioritizing troop production over quality, perhaps that is right or wrong. Unsurprisingly, I boosted the troops I can boost with building a bit more. Any advise, from this group, on how to fight better is appreciated.

I would definitely prioritize upgrading that Toad.

 

[BrinDarby]

Haven’t seen diamonds out of Mystery Object chest in months and I craft a lot because I have multiple Moonstone sets

Thats not a good sign.... the changes should've only taken it down
to 1:12 & 1:8 , from 1:8 & 1:8... @most 20-25% , but your results are
far worse than that. Doesn't bode well for my hording of VV, I better
lower my expectations from that windfall.

 

[crackie]

Thats not a good sign.... the changes should've only taken it down
to 1:12 & 1:8 , from 1:8 & 1:8... @most 20-25% , but your results are
far worse than that. Doesn't bode well for my hording of VV, I better
lower my expectations from that windfall.

Yeah and I wasn't supposed to win that many Winter Lampions either.
My other city only managed to win it once in that same period. The Devs got smart. They scattered more dingbat prizes in there so now you don't see an obscene amount of Blue Flames and Winter Lampions to remind you of how much the RNG gods shun you. It's now spread over a ton of small rooms, mermaids, flower floats and whatever other nonsense we don't want.

 

[Arkadia]

My Red Panda is always fed. My Dragon is level 11, only have 2 Libraries placed in my city. I randomly use the Sip of Clarity and often speed crafting to the point that now I've ran out of my stash of Spell Frags ...time to disenchant the junk in my inventory
I do have a Twilight Phoenix, but never fed it yet. I maintain a huge stash of troops >999 each unit. I barely ever negotiate in the tourney and never in the Spire.
I love my Singing Fish Organ though, and my Shrooms of Joy

 

[ajqtrz]

The only number you have to consider is if the number of pet foods you use
to keep the Red Panda fed, is more or less than using the same ones for something else. And that depends on the number of pet foods you have and the number you use/collect each week. Assuming you are currently using about what you take in, we then just compare the three things for which you could use your pet food to help your military. They are: Red Panda (indirectly), Brown Bear, and Twilight Phoenix. The following is based upon how I play the game and may not be applicable if your style of play is much different than mine or your city is a lot different. Still, here's my "model" for your perusal.

Since the Red Panda helps you get more VV, and thus more Mystical Objects (MO), I begin by asking how much would a fed Red Panda increase my pet food per week. It would have to increase it at least 2 since that's what it uses per week.

I believe a pet food shows up about every 5 crafting rotations. I'll use about 75 CC's and 10 5 hr time instants for each 5 (assuming I craft 2 items out of the 5, which, in my case is about right). The amount of VV I get is dependent on what I craft, but 60 is probably about right since I usually aim for the high VV time instants, supply instants, coin instants, military help buildings rather than the 1-5 VV small stuff.

So, my VV rate of collection is 12 per rotation, or 36 per day. That means in a given week I'll gain about 2.5 Mystical Objects If I feed the Red Panda (which I don't except during FA's), I take in 18 VV per rotation and thus, 54 per day (3 rotations and 2 items in each). Over a week, therefore, I get 370 VV or 3.7 Mystical Objects.

Now if the pet food I get happens about once in each 5 rotations, and I'm doing three rotations a day, I'll get about 4.25 pet food per week. (3 rotations per day = 21 rotations. 21/5 =4.25). But of course, the 4.25 pet food isn't dependent on the Red Panda. Fed or not I'll still do 21 crafting rotations with 2 items on average in each. (NOTE: if you do more rotations per week by using Sips of Clarity, the same logic applies. Your fed/unfed Red Panda doesn't change what you will get). My VV gain if the Red Panda is fed continuously will be 42 (2 items x 21 rotations) x 3 or 126 (3 x 42) or 1.26 more Mystical Objects (which matches the 1.2 mentioned above). So I gain 4-5 CC and whatever I get from the MO. And I use about 40 time instants to do it since I seldom just leave the item to craft itself (and risk that slot not being open when the rotations switches). Still, crafting steadily does get me 4.25 pet foods, but the Red Panda gives me no more since it doesn't give me more rotations to do. Feeding the Red Panda all the time is a net loss of 2 pet foods per week.

Now for the fun part. If I, instead, use those 2 pet food on my Twilight Phoenix during the tournament, I get 5%, my troop losses back. Since I lose about 1/3 of my standing army when I do 35 provinces (about every other week while the rest of the time I do about 30), those pet food are worth about 5% of 300 squads (spread out over 15 types), or 15 squads. A bit expensive but okay if you have the extra pet food.

On the other hand, if I use those 2 pet foods on my Brown Bear and have 2 12 hour 50% military production boost periods? In a given 12 hours I can produce about 45 squads, (each one covers 24 hours if you apply them just before collection and your queue is about 12 hours deep). This is three times as much as I get back from the Twilight Phoenix!. And if I use time instants I do even better. I can easily gain about 100-150 squads that way.

In summary., then, if you want to use the same 2 pet food you should just boost your troop levels by putting them on the brown bear and use some time instants. Second choice would be Twilight Phoenix. As for the Red Panda and extra VV, I doubt it helps at all.

That's how it works for me. I generally convince the spire, negotiate encounters, autofight the tournament to about lvl 30-35 on average and am in chapter 18 with 6 fully grown Armories and the usual compliment of military AW's at about lvl 21 for the most part. I also use 1 ELR, 1 MMM, 1 UUU and sometimes 1 DA each week, feed the Fire Phoenix and might, if I have the pet food (which I sometimes don't), feed the Twilight Phoenix. I only feed the Red Panda during the FA.

Isocrates, the Greek Sophist (i.e. itinerant teacher) said that we learn from "theories, models, and practice." I hope my discussion of my "model" helps you design your own winning approach.

AJ

 

[MichaelMichael]

Results so far, I have been running flat out for 4 weeks.

I find that using the Brown Bear is crowded out due to a lack of time instants (not Pet Food). I have enough Pet food for the Fire Phoenix most of the time and occasional use of Twilight Phoenix. I always climb to the top of the spire and I tend to fight most of the 1-16 provinces with most (but not all) above that taken by catering.

My goal (as KP are not materially useful) is to complete 4 rounds of everything up to province 50 four times - for spells. I can do 50 each week but it is at the edge of my capability. Trading for enough of my boosts for catering is rate limiting as well as orc production. I have 8 tier 1, 6 (soon to be 7) tier 2 and 5 Tier 3 standard manufacturies (at max level) and 9 Armories (also at Max Level) plus 9 Orc Ships for Orcs. All the rest of the goods I can produce by wholesaling. So far I have gotten 500 diamonds twice or 250 a week. I also occasionally use spells and pet food to augment standard goods production.

I suspect I am getting a Mystical object somewhat more often than once per day 1.5, perhaps. I have 10 libraries producing CCs as well as 8 from my Dragon Ark each time I get a mystical object. The rate limiting item is not Pet Food or CCs. It is clearly Time Instants. Because of that, I am more likely to take something I don't need that generates more VV (50% Portal Profit, 29+3 VV for 6 hours & 10 CC) than less expensive useless crafting that uses fewer CCs. (shards for example, 3+3 VV for 3.5 hours and 1 CC). This reduces the relative value of feeding the Red Pandas Overall, I complete 3 or 4 of the crafted items each cycle on average so the Red panda adds at least 36 VV or more on an average day or a little bit more than 1 mystical object per pet food plus some useful (and useless) crafted items. I'd add that since the stratagem generates diamonds, it may be worth considering an occasional use to reset the crafting list above and beyond the Sips of Clarity received.

I am continuing the experiment. The good news is I get significantly more time instant, coin/supply instants (which become Goods) and a few diamonds. It is what I am doing for now. The one change I will do is using the Brown Bear a bit more over the Twilight Phoenix as I found the logic by @ajqtrz (even without using time instants) as compelling.

 

[MichaelMichael]

Result - I decided that the Red Panda is Fellowship Adventure only luxury for Pet Food.

My new position is feeding the Brown Bear continuously (extra troops). That looks like a winner to me, so long as I inventory at least 10 Pet food.