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    Your Elvenar Team

[Rejected] Change to Prevent Time Creep on Collections

Xelenia

Senior Forum Moderator
Elvenar Team
I largely agree with your opinions here and think this is clearly the hurdle to overcome. My intention in putting this thread up is to see the original thread through to the end of a process that got started there. If the idea dies here, that's part of the process I suppose! If it goes to a poll, I think the premise behind the question would be where Inno places the obstacles to the good offered in these types of buildings...in the acquiring of these buildings, or in the use of them once acquired.
Well, I think having proper maintenance on this sub-section is a learning curve for myself and the players as well on identifying which ideas you think the developers will welcome or even consider even for a slight moment :) We just have to choose the right ideas to rally behind one by one and before we know it, there will be many things pushed up the pipeline that the support teams such as myself and the CM can celebrate with you all who takes the time to discuss them :) This particular idea have been pushed before by previous CMs (concepts and ideas not born on the forum), and as you are aware players have been mentioning as well since beta :eek: there just needs to be a better way of presenting the idea.
 

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
The more this has gone on, I've been increasingly having second thoughts about the concept in general. While the concept of preventing or reducing time creep is very appealing, it is beginning to seem too forced to show it as an improvement to the game. There are too many exceptions and what is left seems to have less value in my mind then when I originally thought about. To me it doesn't seem to really have the aspect of improving the game. About the only building I've really disliked the time creep on was the wishing wells. Each day, it would slip a bit until I'd miss a collection. So, couldn't get the as many shots at getting my precious diamonds. Oh, well. @Xelenia makes very good points about us needing to be careful about what and how it is presented and I'm not seeing it with this idea any more. As such, I'm removing my support for it. It really doesn't feel like it's going anywhere or have much of a chance of being adopted.

That being said, I'm really glad @Dowager Jazz Mean that you brought it up. For me, it's time to move on. There are other fish in the sea.
 

AtaguS

Well-Known Member
The more this has gone on, I've been increasingly having second thoughts about the concept in general. While the concept of preventing or reducing time creep is very appealing, it is beginning to seem too forced to show it as an improvement to the game. There are too many exceptions and what is left seems to have less value in my mind then when I originally thought about. To me it doesn't seem to really have the aspect of improving the game. About the only building I've really disliked the time creep on was the wishing wells. Each day, it would slip a bit until I'd miss a collection. So, couldn't get the as many shots at getting my precious diamonds. Oh, well. @Xelenia makes very good points about us needing to be careful about what and how it is presented and I'm not seeing it with this idea any more. As such, I'm removing my support for it. It really doesn't feel like it's going anywhere or have much of a chance of being adopted.

That being said, I'm really glad @Dowager Jazz Mean that you brought it up. For me, it's time to move on. There are other fish in the sea.
I agree, and have been feeling this all day myself. I was willing to collect the thoughts of the first thread and format it as a stepping stone to a poll....but didn't feel a desire to become a defender of the idea once the required presentation was consicely written...because the discussion was a tad frustrating in the old thread as well. I like the idea, and think other players do too...but against the framework of improving the game, all the argument has for legs is "it sucks to work toward winning a prize building only to find I am not intended to get everything out of it I thought I would." This push to present the argument over and over has me cooked. I'm happy to put it to bed as well.
And yes, I second Yogi Dave's appreciation to Dowager...always speak your mind I say!
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
What are some of the real pros and cons for the over-all health of the game?
  • It increases player satisfaction by reducing irritation.
  • It soothes the OCD player who can't stand things slipping to weird times, and feel bad when they have to wait almost a full day to get back on the schedule they like.
  • Does it affect diamonds sales? Do players actually expend more diamonds because they missed a day with their event building? I think that would probably be rare. I doubt if there is noticeable financial angle to the changes, as long as output is scaled. If timer rollovers go from 2 a week to one a week, that's not going to be a significant production boost.
  • It has the potential to inject excess material into the economy. That needs to be offset by a corresponding reduction in output, and the time reduction can't be so much that it absolutely removes creep. The spire buildings have a little too short at 21 hours. There's practically never creep, and it can usually be overcome by a couple of days of careful play. A 23 hour production cycle, or a 47 hour production cycle isn't going to eliminate creep, just reduce it a little. People will still miss deadlines by an hour once in a while and loose a day of production every week or two.
  • It requires changing timer entries and potentially some graphic assets if there are timers coded as images instead of text, but shouldn't be a difficult change. Most of the entries are simply database changes. replace 24 with 23, replace 48 with 47. Quests shouldn't be affected significantly as they are usually based on the specific production name rather than the length it runs.
We know it was not always an impossible request, but maybe it is now. Forum mods on Beta have said in the past that the devs were willing to consider different production lengths as long as we understand it is trading one for another, not adding new lengths. Maybe that has a changed under a new lead designer.
 
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My initial instinct was for an additional item to be crafted at the magic academy .. a time reducer that would work on expiring building cycles. Which seemed like a simple enough ask until one realizes it involves changing the nature of the buildings. I'm 60 years old and I've seen enough 'time creep' to add it to death and taxes as a certainty. Thanks to everyone for putting your backs into the issue.
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
Creep happens every day. Setting it back one a month will have very little effect at all. Most people will have already lost something to overnight/work-day by the time of the reset, probably multiple times.
Periodic one-offs are a lot more work to program than a fixed time, which only requires a one-time change in the databases. On the surface, I can't see the devs being interested in manually resetting all the clocks every month-or-so
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
As you can see, it could be as much as once every two weeks (26/52 per year). They certainly would not have to manually set this - inputing the 26 dates once a year does not seem insurmountable.
It's not about insurmountable. Anything that has to be done manually, Whether once a month or once a year, comes with a chance of it being forgotten, missed, or entered wrong.

That said, if you want to submit an idea to do this, you should do so. Anyone can post an idea. It doesn't need to be tagged on to a different idea, especially one which has already been voted on and forwarded to the developers. If you go to the Ideas and Suggestions main page, there will be a green "Post Thread" button.
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Gothmag29

New Member
TLDR: Any event building with a timer of 24 hours becomes 23 hours. Any timer of 48 hours becomes 47 hours. Any time under 24 hours does not change. Any time which turns over without player intervention does not change.

YES. +1
 

LisaMV

Active Member
TLDR: Any event building with a timer of 24 hours becomes 23 hours. Any timer of 48 hours becomes 47 hours. Any time under 24 hours does not change. Any time which turns over without player intervention does not change.

YES. +1
"TLDR" -? Can you decipher for me?
I do not understand the reason why the 12 hour timer should not change - it will be creeping ahead without a break just like (or worse than, actually!) a 24hr building, since two 12 hr blocks of time = 24.
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
"TLDR" -? Can you decipher for me?
TLDR is the acronym "Too long, Didn't Read" representing a distillation of the entire content of a post for people who don't have the time or inclination to read the whole thing.
"TLDR" -? Can you decipher for me?
I do not understand the reason why the 12 hour timer should not change - it will be creeping ahead without a break just like (or worse than, actually!) a 24hr building, since two 12 hr blocks of time = 24.
Because with anything under 24 hours, you only need a short cycle to reset it, and if you reduced 12 to 11 it would be very.very easy for someone to collect earlier and earelier in order to gain an extra (third) collection in only a few days.
  • With a 23 hour cycle, you can gain an extra collection every 23 days if motivated. an extra value of 1/24 or 4.2% and if you have a typical eight hour sleep cycle, you have to wake up at night 8 times to do it.
  • With an 11 hour cycle you can gain an extra collection every 6 days. an extra value of 1/6/2 or 16.6% and only have to wake up at night 3 times to accomplish it, a much less onorous task.
 
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LisaMV

Active Member
TLDR is the acronym "Too long, Didn't Read" representing a distillation of the entire content of a post for people who don't have the time or inclination to read the whole thing.
Ah! "Too long, Didn't Read" - you did a great job with that, then! thanks
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
And a missing bracket in that post caused the second part to get hidden in the quote, so you might have missed it. Fixed it now
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
Looking back over this and I will say that as long as expiring buildings are included, this will most likely get a NO. I just don't see them wanting us to have all those extra collections that would make. But it is possible the devs may take the idea and shrink the selection down themselves and keep it alive.
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
Looking back over this and I will say that as long as expiring buildings are included, this will most likely get a NO. I just don't see them wanting us to have all those extra collections that would make. But it is possible the devs may take the idea and shrink the selection down themselves and keep it alive.
How many / Which expiring buildings would it effect?