Release Notes version 1.10

[DeletedUser2191]

The last elephant that we're hunting is Map Density, and once that's been dealt with then Tournaments will make a lot more sense, and we'll have a lot more interaction with our neighbors, simply because we'll have a lot more active neighbors.

Elvenar is coming together quite nicely.

If we ever get more active neighbours. Been 3 weeks since the MASSIVE purge, with another smaller purge just 2 days ago. Guess how many gold mines have been replaced in that time? None, zip, nada, zero, zilch. I have to scroll 10,000 miles just to reach the outer most of the closest 200 trade partners, but since they are undiscovered I'm not trading with them. That means less options to get goods needed if people want to negotiate for provinces when fellowship trading is slowed or stalled. For newer or mid ranged players that are dropped in this situation, the negotiating weakness you state does not apply then as they won't be able to blitz the provinces.

I'm seeing more Elvenar ads across more websites but that obviously isn't doing anything for them. Being linked up with Facebook isn't much better, we are all familiar with FB's shady history and means of operations. I found this game from seeing an ad on FB, but I didn't connect to it through FB, I went direct to the Innogames site to keep away from FB's shadiness.

You can come back with your fancy graphs, forumlas, algorithms yada yada, but in actuality practicality trumps theory. No formula, graph, cartoon is going to physically bring people into the game. If the developers were actually monitoring game progress of the players and population density, they would of known not to put the road blocks everyone is talking about in place.

The research trees on their own do not give enough expansions to grow our cities to their fullest potential. Players rely on conquering provinces to acquire the additional land that is needed beyond what is given by the research tree. That has now been blocked with the orcs as a negotiation good.

 

[DeletedUser43]

I hit like, but that isn't enough. Those are excellent points Ludwig.

 

[DeletedUser627]

Soft Capping the "Overproduce and Negotiate" playing style is what the Orcs are all about.

You keep repeating "cap", as if simply by continuing to say it, it will have meaning. They didn't cap a playing style - because they didn't cap it. They still allow it - only one has to pay $ for it now, rather than earning it through play time.

Yeah and Amen. The ability to Negotiate twice as many Provinces as you could acquire by fighting was a glaring design weakness. I suspect that the developers were astonished when folks began to complain that they couldn't scout because they didn't have enough Main Hall storage capacity. Say What???

There was no over-availability of expansions - in fact, there were exactly the correct number of expansions available originally. In my main city, I 1) completed all the expansions via Research 2) purchased all the expansions available via Main Hall and 3) scouted daily and completed a reasonable 291 Provinces now that we're just into Orc. Guess what all that yielded? Did it yield more expansions that the grid will hold - which is what one would expect if I had been "overproducing and negotiating" per your accusation? No. It just happens to yield exactly the number of expansions that are available on the grid by the end of Orc Research. Since this is too complicated a scenario to have happened accidentally, we have to suppose that the devs originally plotted the lengthy scouting times to match up with the length of time necessary to complete these three initial Guest Races. The number of expansions we could acquire matched up with the number of expansions that could be placed on the grid. No evidence of abuse, overproduction, nor ruin.

 

[DeletedUser43]

And I have been playing since the day this game started. I have started the orc chapter but I did not buy the expansions. I have instead chosen the incredibly hard work of being here every day and making sure my scout has never missed a second of time. I just now got the last expansion from the dwarf era. I don't have even one fairy expansion.

If anyone actually looked or did the real math they would see we are woefully deficient on expansions. Before the horrific scouting times got so out of whack, you could keep up with expansions as you played the different era. No longer. I won't get the fairy expansions until long after the last orc has skulked out of the city. That means I am 10 expansions behind. TEN. And now I have an entire new race that eats space like it eats magical mystery mushrooms.

 

[DeletedUser188]

With the new race comes new culture buildings
Why are there no pop/culture buildings available
Will there be any available in the future

 

[DeletedUser61]

They didn't cap a playing style - because they didn't cap it. They still allow it - only one has to pay $ for it now, rather than earning it through play time.

• The Premium Expansions have always been soft capped, by your credit card bill. ( 1/3 rd the expansions )
• The City Expansions have always been hard capped, but your Technology Tree ( 1/3 rd of the expansions )
• The Provincial Expansions ( 1/3 rd of the expansions )
  • have always been fighting soft capped by Squad Size, and your losses
  • are now negotiation soft capped, because Orcs are required beyond Ring 10, which covers the first 222 provinces
• Enough footprint space is now available (100 expansion slots) to max out all three expansion sources

Before the horrific scouting times got so out of whack

• The scouting costs and times are a soft cap.
• The Main Hall storage capacity is a hard cap.

 

[DeletedUser2855]

• The Premium Expansions have always been soft capped, by your credit card bill. ( 1/3 rd the expansions )
• The City Expansions have always been hard capped, but your Technology Tree ( 1/3 rd of the expansions )
• The Provincial Expansions ( 1/3 rd of the expansions )
  • have always been fighting soft capped by Squad Size, and your losses
  • are now negotiation soft capped, because Orcs are required beyond Ring 10, which covers the first 222 provinces
• Enough footprint space is now available (100 expansion slots) to max out all three expansion sources

• The scouting costs and times are a soft cap.
• The Main Hall storage capacity is a hard cap.

i want to know answer to this one: Katwijk
Well what i want to know is that by upgrading to orc house lvl 20 we lose people will Inno repair this?

 

[DeletedUser43]

Why would you cap people at having FEWER expansions than is needed for a race? You wouldn't game wise, you would if all you want is to sell expansions.

Oh...and I see reporting those ugly forum rule violating cartoons did nothing. One set of rules for one person and the rest of us have another set of rules. I am very disappointed in the moderators. KJ gets to attack all the players and that is somehow just fine. For shame. I don't care who he is in the organization, he is making this whole company look horrible.

 

[DeletedUser61]

upgrading to orc house lvl 20 we lose people will Inno repair this?

There are actually two answers:

1. Short term, when you upgrade to level 21, you'll get them back again, so immediately upgrade each house TWICE.
2. Long term, at some point the workers/supplies/culture requirements have to flatten out, or else there won't be enough space for everything without urban sprawl.

There's nothing that says that things have to get bigger and better for every Guest Race. A different look and different puzzles are really all that's needed.

 

[DeletedUser2855]

still getting only 24 people per house for upgrading 2 orc level house isnt that too little????

 

[DeletedUser61]

isnt that too little

There's a lively discussion over in the Beta forum, and I do believe that Philplessis has the correct interpretation.

Spoiler: Orcish

imho, I do not believe in "inhabitants/square" stuff
what I see is :
-level 19 residence gives 550 inhabitants
-level 20 residence gives 750 inhabitants
of course, it will use more space, but it will provide more population;
I have managed to put some space on the side that will allow me to upgrade 10 residences to level 21,
and in return I will keep some squares (because of the 2x4 -> 4x3) that will let me upgrade 2 more armouries in the end
ok, the final gain in population per square is quite small indeed, but I will break even anyhow

- https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/inde...y-useless-and-waste-of-money.5459/#post-35907

 

[DeletedUser2855]

lol

 

[DeletedUser627]

There's a lively discussion over in the Beta forum, and I do believe that Philplessis has the correct interpretation.

Spoiler: Orcish

- https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/inde...y-useless-and-waste-of-money.5459/#post-35907

Yay! Just what we want to do dis "break even".

But it's not really a break even. And of all people, you should run the numbers and hate this race. Why? Because upgrading only results in running up scores, lowering culture bonus, and producing the same or fewer goods. (Unless you buy snails).

 

[DeletedUser]

There has been one real path to success in this game and that's been to load up on production buildings, produce a ton to negotiate, and get the benefit of high scores whether a city can even run those factories or not.

Hello, Varron, if you see this post would you mind explaining further what you mean about "whether a city can even run those factories or not"? How can a player keep producing goods if they can't afford the costs in coin or supplies to run them? Do you mean people build/upgrade their manufactories & then let them sit just to have scoring points from them? And if this is what you mean, does it not also work if people who choose to fight build multiple armories which also earn points? I guess I'm unclear because I don't see this "imbalance". If I want X number of manufactories, I sacrifice something else - perhaps not having the space for multiple wonders (which add points) or not having room for another armory (which adds points). If looked at from the other perspective, if I choose to have multiple armories, I may not have as much room for extra manus or AWs also, but I am still getting the points towards rank for what I do choose to build. Everything is a trade-off in this game, no matter what you choose to build, because there are costs associated with everything.

Is there some actual math involved that I am not realizing that shows that the time & cost to own/build multiple manufactories (production focused) is superior or inferior to the time & cost to own/build armories (fighting focused)? I don't ask to be antagonistic - I ask to find out why some posters say the game has been "imbalanced".

More production=more goods to negotiate, more expansions, more Kps you can buy for advancement or AW's and it's a fairly linear relationship between more production and higher score, rank, city size,etc.

True, if you negotiate provinces with the earned goods you produce, you can then use your completed province KPs to fill your Tech Tree quicker. But if you fight to win that province instead, you can also use your earned troops & then use your completed province KP to fill the Tech Tree quicker as well. You get the same amount of KP whether you negotiate the province or fight the province. It takes time to produce goods, it takes time to train more fighters. It takes progress in the Tech Tree to upgrade manufactories, it takes progress in the Tech Tree to upgrade armories & barracks and the kinds of fighters you can train. And upgrading anything takes culture & population. All players can earn coin to buy KPs using that little plus sign too. So, my point is that everything takes time, no matter whether you gravitate more towards production or more towards fighting. If everything takes time & effort from a player to do, where does the "imbalance" come in?

In a previous post of mine, I talked about the different reasons someone might want to have multiple factories, and one of my suppositions was that a person might like to produce a lot of goods to support their other FS members or neighbors who are not boosted in that good.

What is the line in the sand for the amount of manufactories we "should" have? Does this number change if you are in an area with mostly gold mines or inactive players? Does this number change if your FS is made up of newer players? More advanced players? If you are the only one with that boost, does the number change?

FWIW, I have 6 steel factories at level 16. For a good while, I was in a FS with less frequent players and less advanced players & I needed that amount of steel to trade. I congenially left that FS and am now with a higher ranking one where I am one of multiple regular players & I think I can probably get rid of one of my steel manus. But, until this week, I only had 4 scroll manus at level 15. I'm actually feeling like that's not enough, so I've built another scroll manu & it's at level 10 with the intent to raise it. I have 3 level 15 elixer manus and am satisfied with that for now but I do notice that players above me have more Tier3 manus than that.

Do I have too many? Why or why not? And if I don't have too many, then how have I somehow earned "too many" provinces? I have paid for those provinces in scouting costs, coin, KP, troop amounts & goods amounts, haven't I? I have not found some unfair way to earn more troops than anyone else - I have not consistently posted unfair trades that have worked in my favor to get extra goods. It's my opinion that I've gotten as far as I have with provinces & any other aspect of the game primarily because I am a REGULAR player. And, to be upfront, as I've already mentioned in my first post in this thread, I did buy diamonds to upgrade my builder to lvl 3 and I have bought a few expansions as well.

I also have 3 armories at 15 & Barracks at 17. Is that too many? Too few? Why or why not? I burn through Treants, Golems & Soreceresses but I keep paying the costs to train more so I can use them. I feel like my goods production and my troop production are both adequate for my current needs. Am I wrong? Why or why not?

Whenever I sign in, I don't only choose to make more goods or train more troops. I do BOTH. Is the "imbalance" of the game that some people are saying coming from the idea that some players are only doing one or the other?

If so, then yes, there is "imbalance" by some players. But there is not "imbalance" by those of us, including me, who do both, right? And if I am not "unbalanced" then why is my playing style of liking to complete provinces (primarily to work towards big cities) either 'wrong' or criticized in any way?

Personally I like to fight & also trade. Many times I will try to fight a province first, and if I lose, I might go back & try a different combo of fighters before using negotiation. The reason I can do this is because I play frequently - losing lots of fighters & goods isn't my favorite, but I know that if I sign back in frequently, I can make up my losses without TOO much time being lost. Also because I play so frequently, I do have the ability to earn more KPs than someone who plays less often. Sure, that's an imbalance, but isn't that fair & should be how games work?

If 2 people started playing this game on the same day & one person played a lot and the other played less frequently, wouldn't we expect that after 6 months, the regular player would be much farther ahead? There are many ways they could be compared - one player will likely have lots more money, lots more supplies, lots more goods. One player will likely have lots more provinces scouted & completed. One player will likely have lots more KP, lots more items built, lots more expansions in their city, lots more troops (and variety of troops), etc.

In my own FS, I actually have more points than a couple of people who are farther in the Tech Tree than I am. I have more points than others who have multiple AWs (I currently have none). I think this is due to 2 things - I play more frequently & I complete more provinces (by both fighting & negotiating) than they do. Is either way "wrong"? Is either way "better"? Nope, I don't think so, just different. Have we each not somehow earned our points though? Should a more active player be penalized because they are having fun playing the game frequently? And should a less active player somehow get advantages in order to make their point level more in line with that frequent player?

I also think this goes back to my question of why should we all be forced to play the exact same game? Everything we do earns us points, so if someone in Fairies (quite ahead of me in the Tech Tree) has a lower point score than I do (and I'm in Dwarves), do we look at that & say "how unfair, that Dwarves person must have an unfair advantage?" or do we look at that & say "probably that Dwarves person plays a lot more than the Fairies person"?
We've made different choices to get to where we are - one of which is that one player plays more often, maybe one player got in a better FS (which is just a chance/luck thing), maybe one player landed on a better map spot (with active neighbors & less gold mines, etc), and a hundred other choices.

It seems to me that the "imbalance" I am finding is that my "effort in" no longer has any consistency, with no change from myself.

 

[DeletedUser3456]

I'm finding a very difficult time getting onto level II. I smoked past the first part and with the glitches and not being able to advance unless you buy or spend money. I'm not new to gaming so I think I will fold this game up.

 

[DeletedUser61]

you should run the numbers and hate this race

One of the intriguing aspects of Elvenar is the Guest Races. Once the game has settled down enough to implement a mobile version, I'd expect to see a lot more mini-games, like Tournaments, and consequently less emphasis on the macro aspects of upgrading your city. On the other hand, I would expect the Guest Race puzzles, and the associated quests and special events, to get more and more intriguing.

Now that we have enough expansions to pretty much fill up our cities, I would NOT expect any more increases in the averages for Workers/Culture/Supplies/Expansions for the City itself, going forward, but future expansions could very easily be devoted to INTERIOR space.

Just blue skying, but we haven't done ANYTHING yet with interior decorating. Clicking on the Trader, for instance, could open up an entirely new screen for the development of your city's marketplace. That would be a dandy way to use up some future expansion. Each Guest Race could easily have an aisle in the marketplace.

I feel like my goods production and my troop production are both adequate for my current needs.

That's a very useful definition of a balanced game. If you MUST play one way or the other, in order to remain competitive, then we really only have half of a game. If you're still using both Negotiating and Fighting, depending on the circumstances, then you're already playing a balanced game.

 

[DeletedUser627]

That's a very useful definition of a balanced game. If you MUST play one way or the other, in order to remain competitive, then we really only have half of a game. If you're still using both Negotiating and Fighting, depending on the circumstances, then you're already playing a balanced game.

I think perhaps you're missing both the direct and implied points of TTV's post. Politely, he's of the opinion that we don't really have a case for opining as to other players' choices of game strategy / style. So your blessing upon his city - bestowed with the rarity of raindrops from heaven - is either oblivious or condescending.

 

[DeletedUser43]

travelstovegas, correct me if I am wrong, but as I read your post you were saying that you HAD a balanced game before this change and now you will be skewed towards fighting only to clear those provinces instead of choosing fighting or negotiating.

 

[DeletedUser627]

travelstovegas, correct me if I am wrong, but as I read your post you were saying that you HAD a balanced game before this change and now you will be skewed towards fighting only to clear those provinces instead of choosing fighting or negotiating.

BK, channeling her inner lawyer!

 

[DeletedUser]

travelstovegas, correct me if I am wrong, but as I read your post you were saying that you HAD a balanced game before this change and now you will be skewed towards fighting only to clear those provinces instead of choosing fighting or negotiating.

Bobbykitty, yes definitely I face being forced to play the game differently now if I wish to progress in provinces anymore!
I *did* feel like I had a balanced game, but now the only way for me to complete any provinces anymore is to fight since I don't have Orcs (& won't get them for a long time either). As I am only in Dwarves & my troops are only at a certain level, I must try to make them stronger if I am to win more fights in these 10th+ ring provinces. To do that, I am faced with the only choice of building more armories, upgrading armories & barracks as fast as I can, and prioritizing Tech Tree items that increase fighting skills.

As has been said, if I can't win fights, I can't earn province KP or province expansions, and I can't add neighbors to visit for coin & supplies or to trade with, therefore bringing much of my game to a halt.

So, one possibility is to demolish manufactories I already own & replace them with armories to increase my Squad sizes & perhaps give me a better chance at winning battles. Yet if I do this, I then become an unequal member of my FS since I'm self-focused and am not sharing goods so much as taking what I need. I also am no longer "balanced" in that I'm forced to prioritize fighting at the detriment of goods if I want to make any progress.

Previously, I tried to play with an eye towards no one thing getting all of my attention, & that resulted in steady progress in pretty much everything.

No choices or different paths for me any longer other than sit still without growth on the map (unless or until I earn Orcs, which I've already detailed how long that will be) and maybe try to wait out the clock, or focus on fighting at the expense of all else (even though I'm outclassed & outnumbered in troops) in order to just TRY to get ahead.

Oh, and I find this ironic - ever since that last massive purge of nonplayers, I have a ton of non-discovered players in my Trader, some of whom are 25+ rings away from me. So, I am being teased with active players who I could trade & visit with, if only I could get to them - but, I can't get to them because even if I dedicated myself to going in that direction, my ability to balance negotiation & fighting for provinces is now nonexistent.

Also - before this 10th+ negotiation thing went into affect, I discovered a few occasional players who are lower down in the Tech Tree than I am. I can take their trades with no additional costs, but they can't take mine until they discover me. Which isn't going to happen for them either, because they can't work towards me due to the 10th+ ring issue. So in our ghost town of a map, I'm one of the biggest players they could work towards but even if they don't know it yet, they shouldn't head my way unless they want to be frustrated once they realize they aren't strong enough to fight the provinces near me.