Release Notes version 1.31 + Halflings

[SoggyShorts]

We have done some calculations about the halfling race goods/factories and came to a shocking discovery.

Awesomely enough it seems one of the members of the elvenar team seems to have have made a serious miscalculation
http://crazywizard.info/en/tnt_gr_factories.html

What about overbuilding? How would you increase the ratio from
6 level 2 farms/8 level 1 farms
3/3/4/5

If I can fit more than that, what would be best to add?

Also I've tried to make it as square as possible, and this is what I've got:

Spoiler: squarish

355 squares used, including all the dead space in the middle.

another option:

Spoiler: From S&D to halflings

 

[DeletedUser1016]

Awesomely enough it seems one of the members of the elvenar team seems to have have made a serious miscalculation
http://crazywizard.info/en/tnt_gr_factories.html

This is awesome CW!!!

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

What about overbuilding? How would you increase the ratio from
6 level 2 farms/8 level 1 farms
3/3/4/5

If I can fit more than that, what would be best to add?

Also I've tried to make it as square as possible, and this is what I've got:

Spoiler: squarish

View attachment 2061

355 squares used, including all the dead space in the middle.

another option:

Spoiler: From S&D to halflings

View attachment 2062

Nice layouts
If you have even more room, good question. the numbers of grain and carrots are currently rounded down(3.15 or so is the real value)
This because when you start popping those fields you preproduce a lot of grain (and later carrots) if correct.
because of this effect by the time your fields are upgraded properly your inventory already will look like this (use the pictures, my main is dutch)

Pumpkins and apples are rounded up so you already slightly overproduce them

If I had more room I would calculate the goods you would need for 12k bread, 18k soup and 30k jelly. (+ the goods needed to upgrade portal)
I would then throw down some extra grain fields, once I reach the numbers I need (depends on your production portal bonus so I cant tell you them)
I would upgrade them to carrots, similar upgrade them to pumpkins and eventually apple fields.

Once you have all numbers filled up, destroy all fields except for 1 of each (backup in case you miscalculated) and fill all the room with lvl 1 farms.

I hope you have an abbey at that time that is able to give you all the mana you need because you will fly trough the chapter at that point at a rate that's insane.

 

[qaccy]

We have done some calculations about the halfling race goods/factories and came to a shocking discovery.

Awesomely enough it seems one of the members of the elvenar team seems to have have made a serious miscalculation
http://crazywizard.info/en/tnt_gr_factories.html

What makes this statement true for Halflings and not the other guest races? From what I understand, the other guest race production buildings also require time/resources to upgrade. Could you elaborate on why this isn't efficient for Halflings in particular? I don't doubt that you've done calculations, but I'd be interested in actually seeing them.

EDIT: Also, here's what I came up with for a Halflings layout.

Spoiler

Incredibly weird dimensions, but tried to keep the 'dead space' to a minimum and the widest dimensions bring it to a 21x19 footprint, which is somewhat similar to the campus (mine covered a 20x22 footprint). Also, it appears I use the planner with flipped dimensions compared to Soggy up above but this is how I 'see' the game as well. All about perspective!

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

What makes this statement true for Halflings and not the other guest races? From what I understand, the other guest race production buildings also require time/resources to upgrade. Could you elaborate on why this isn't efficient for Halflings in particular? I don't doubt that you've done calculations, but I'd be interested in actually seeing them.

It's different than the other races because fields do not increase in output as they level, instead they change there type of output.
Farms on the other hand when they level they require more input, which means more fields to produce those goods
6 lvl 1 farms need ~12 fields to support it
6 lvl 2 farms need ~18 fields to support it
6 lvl 3 farms need ~24 fields to support it
6 lvl 4 farms need ~30 fields to support it.

You can imagine there is no way you can have 30 fields working with only 6 farms since every field needs to be directly connected to a farm

this is why anything beyond 1/2 is a waste of time and effort.

oh and with an output of 20 you would need 15x6=90 hours just to upgrade 1 farm to lvl 2, a record time, in a slow sense

 

[qaccy]

It's different than the other races because fields do not increase in output as they level, instead they change there type of output.
Farms on the other hand when they level they require more input, which means more fields to produce those goods
6 lvl 1 farms need ~12 fields to support it
6 lvl 2 farms need ~18 fields to support it
6 lvl 3 farms need ~24 fields to support it
6 lvl 4 farms need ~30 fields to support it.

You can imagine there is no way you can have 30 fields working with only 6 farms since every field needs to be directly connected to a farm

this is why anything beyond 1/2 is a waste of time and effort.

oh and with an output of 20 you would need 15x6=90 hours just to upgrade 1 farm to lvl 2, a record time, in a slow sense

That makes a lot of sense and of course I completely forgot that fields don't actually produce more when they're upgraded, just a different resource (even though that's one of the main 'challenges' for this guest race). Thank you for illuminating that!

Considering that fields still need resources and time to upgrade, I'm not sure why they couldn't have also had a production multiplier with each level up, to keep it in line with every other guest race building so far. In hindsight, just changing the resource produced (especially since you can't 'downgrade' a building once it's upgraded) doesn't seem like enough of a reason to upgrade, despite us being forced to do it if we want to progress. Even looking at the sample layouts for the chapter, it's odd to me that you end up needing more of the fields from the higher levels than you do the lower ones. That means paying for nearly 51 fields (in terms of fertilizer) just to ultimately receive the output of 15. A bit disappointing to learn now that you got me to think about it

 

[SoggyShorts]

EDIT: Also, here's what I came up with for a Halflings layout.

It looks like your layout has 24 squares of roads/dead space, and mine each have 27 I think.
So while it might look strange, your plan does save some space. Although having the portal sunken in might make connection difficult.

Also, it appears I use the planner with flipped dimensions compared to Soggy up above but this is how I 'see' the game as well. All about perspective!

Do you view the cliffs (where wonders go) as being East then? I think the orientation I use makes those cliffs North.

 

[qaccy]

It looks like your layout has 24 squares of roads/dead space, and mine each have 27 I think.
So while it might look strange, your plan does save some space. Although having the portal sunken in might make connection difficult.

Do you view the cliffs (where wonders go) as being East then? I think the orientation I use makes those cliffs North.

It is a bit odd with the portal 'sunken' as you put it, but I'm just going to use some basic paths to connect it (already have a 'main' road running along that side that I'll attach it to). Overall, I wanted as much as possible to confine the Halfling stuff to the same space I had allocated for my campus, which unfortunately wouldn't fit either of your configurations. Unfortunately once I start really getting all those buildings down, there goes most of my mana production...

And yes, I do view those cliffs as being 'east'! Makes it a bit weird to talk about layouts sometimes, so I try to keep my dimensions ordered the way the game does it (which for me would be north-south x west-east).

 

[DeletedUser1036]

Yes but only going so far in leveling your going to end up abandoning the quest line > https://www.gamersgemsofknowledge.com/halflings-quests

I did that once because I didn't want the Magic Academy and paid dearly for it in the end.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

then level them up as far as the quest demands, and not a bit more

if you need 3 lvl 3 farms you build those but ignore the other ones.

 

[Thistleknot]

I didn't save it, but I made a mock up in the architect, and if you count roads, then 20 libraries take up the same space as 11 grape farms, so the change is a positive 800 mana per day and a gain of 30K culture. Of course you should probably factor in the 24h construction time for each one during which time you produce zero mana---that takes a lot of time to recoup.

Maybe it's back to the older chapters where you're better off skipping every second culture "upgrade" if you are moving through the tech tree quickly. (like orcs culture buildings)

I just did a look at the Arcane Library vs the Grape Farm vs the Witch Market Stall. I would say that Soggy is correct about not upgrading to the Grape Farms.

If I had unlimited space, I would go with the Grape Farm. It has great culture and a nice mana production if you can get a bunch of them. But there is the problem - SPACE. Based on the space that I have, the Arcane Library will be better. I can get 14 Arcane Libraries vs 8 Grape Farms. The 12-hour production of the Arcane Library vs the 18-hour production of the Grape Farm means that I am more likely to get more collections which means more mana overall. Yes more mana is produced in the single 18-hour production but I am only ever going to collect that once per day. Over a 72 hour period, I should be able to collect the Grape farm 4 times, but in reality it will only be 3. For the Arcane Library, I will get 6 collections.

As far as the Witch Market Stall, again you run into collection issues. It has 6-hour productions, but you only truly collect 3 times per day, not 4. I would also need 54 to equal my 14 Arcane Libraries and that doesn't fit in the allotted area.

As far as culture, The Grape Farm is the best, almost doubling the Arcane Library. The WMS is a little more than a quarter of the Grape Farms. But in general, culture isn't really a major issue. I have around a 23K surplus at the moment with the 14 libraries active plus all the event culture.

So for me, the Arcane Library is the best balance of culture, mana production, and space required.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

Hmmm

 

[qaccy]

I just did a look at the Arcane Library vs the Grape Farm vs the Witch Market Stall. I would say that Soggy is correct about not upgrading to the Grape Farms.

If I had unlimited space, I would go with the Grape Farm. It has great culture and a nice mana production if you can get a bunch of them. But there is the problem - SPACE. Based on the space that I have, the Arcane Library will be better. I can get 14 Arcane Libraries vs 8 Grape Farms. The 12-hour production of the Arcane Library vs the 18-hour production of the Grape Farm means that I am more likely to get more collections which means more mana overall. Yes more mana is produced in the single 18-hour production but I am only ever going to collect that once per day. Over a 72 hour period, I should be able to collect the Grape farm 4 times, but in reality it will only be 3. For the Arcane Library, I will get 6 collections.

As far as the Witch Market Stall, again you run into collection issues. It has 6-hour productions, but you only truly collect 3 times per day, not 4. I would also need 54 to equal my 14 Arcane Libraries and that doesn't fit in the allotted area.

As far as culture, The Grape Farm is the best, almost doubling the Arcane Library. The WMS is a little more than a quarter of the Grape Farms. But in general, culture isn't really a major issue. I have around a 23K surplus at the moment with the 14 libraries active plus all the event culture.

So for me, the Arcane Library is the best balance of culture, mana production, and space required.

You seem to discount the fact that you can collect mana productions early. You're probably not only collecting Grape Farms once per day because of this fact, unless you intentionally only collect from a mana building when its production is full, but in that case you'd also be wasting mana as you attested to with your argument against Witch Market Stalls. Although, how come over a 72 hour period you're still able to perfectly collect your Libraries but not the Farms? That seems biased to me.

BUT, ultimately all three of those buildings are roughly the same in terms of production per square (adding in a road connection for each one, they all fall within one mana of each other per square). If you really want to get down to mana efficiency, Grapevines are the way to go. 25 per hour per square, 20 if you include the road connection, which is still roughly a 50% increase over the others. But it's a less efficient use of builders, and they come very late in the tree. It IS possible to obtain them ahead of 9 other researches though, so you can obtain some benefit from using them. They're only beat by diamond buildings! Or a Maze of Dark Matter around level 5-7 (depends on how many provinces you've obtained)...which *has* to be collected every 3 hours to not waste mana.

Hmmm

We're not really discussing diamond buildings here. /snapjudgement

 

[DeletedUser3507]

ahahaha who said anything about diamond buildings, I was just showing my available culture....

 

[Thistleknot]

Although, how come over a 72 hour period you're still able to perfectly collect your Libraries but not the Farms? That seems biased to me.

Qaccy,
I should have stated that the intention is to not collect early and therefore in theory get the maximum production.

Here's my example. The 72-hour period was used as a common denominator. 72 hours = 4 18-hour productions = 6 12-hour productions.

Grape Farm
If I start production at 7am on day 1, I will not be able to collect until 1am. Since I would be asleep at that time, I won't collect day 1 until 7am on day 2. At which point a start the second production. Again it completes while I'm asleep and I cannot collect until the 7am on day 3. I start the 3rd production and it gets collected on day 4. Only 3 collections in the 72-hour period instead of the 4 possible collections due to the need for sleep.

It would be possible to collect 4 times if I started day 1 later in the day, but after the first 72-hour period you're back to the above example.

Arcane Library
If I start production at 7am on day 1, I will collect at 7pm that same day. Then I start the second production. At 7am of day 2, I collect the 2nd production and start the third. At 7pm on day 2, I collect the third and start the fourth. At 7am on day 3, I collect the 4th production and start the fifth. At 7pm on day 3, I collect the 5th production and start the sixth. At the start of day 4, I collect the last production. I have collected 6 productions in full and therefore have been able to collect more mana.

Again this is all based on limited space and looking at 14 arcane libraries versus 8 grape farms. Not too mention that I don't have to spend any additional time or resources building the grape farms.

I will state that if space was not as much of an issue, the grape farms are better overall for culture and mana. Also if I can get the Maze of Dark Matter built, I will be upgrading it heavily.

Jps54, I'm glad that culture is not an issue for you. I have just over 48K at the moment, but will lose half of that when I start full on building the Halfling settlement and have to sell off libraries for space.

 

[DeletedUser1390]

One oddity I've noticed - in this chapter for the first time the connector tech (canals) and the first settlement building (farms) are parallel on the tree, rather than sequential. Which means if you're curious like I and coincidentally one of my fellows were today, you can get the farm tech first, and then try to lay one down before you have the canal to connect it to the portal. Partly in the faint hope it might let you build some farms while you're waiting for the connector tech, but mostly just to see what would happen.

As I expected it won't build it, but what is curious is that it does let you lay down the construction, takes your goods and occupies your builder, but then immediately shows the red broken connection icon. In the Builder's Hut the farm is there under the 1st builder, but is greyed out, and says above it in red 'Missing Street!' Oh and I just noticed the premium button says I can complete it for the grand sum of 3 diamonds - but that button is greyed out too.

This is no great hassle for me as I'm not building much at the moment anyway, and I assume I will get my 'money's worth' once I can activate the build. But it does appear that one builder will just remain frozen, and the farm in perpetual construction, until such time as I can build a connector. (Of course you can't cancel the build because it won't even open the building when it's unconnected.) I just wonder if this is the way the designers intended this to play, and if so if some warning or other prophylactic should be included.

 

[qaccy]

Qaccy,
I should have stated that the intention is to not collect early and therefore in theory get the maximum production.

Here's my example. The 72-hour period was used as a common denominator. 72 hours = 4 18-hour productions = 6 12-hour productions.

Grape Farm
If I start production at 7am on day 1, I will not be able to collect until 1am. Since I would be asleep at that time, I won't collect day 1 until 7am on day 2. At which point a start the second production. Again it completes while I'm asleep and I cannot collect until the 7am on day 3. I start the 3rd production and it gets collected on day 4. Only 3 collections in the 72-hour period instead of the 4 possible collections due to the need for sleep.

It would be possible to collect 4 times if I started day 1 later in the day, but after the first 72-hour period you're back to the above example.

Arcane Library
If I start production at 7am on day 1, I will collect at 7pm that same day. Then I start the second production. At 7am of day 2, I collect the 2nd production and start the third. At 7pm on day 2, I collect the third and start the fourth. At 7am on day 3, I collect the 4th production and start the fifth. At 7pm on day 3, I collect the 5th production and start the sixth. At the start of day 4, I collect the last production. I have collected 6 productions in full and therefore have been able to collect more mana.

Again this is all based on limited space and looking at 14 arcane libraries versus 8 grape farms. Not too mention that I don't have to spend any additional time or resources building the grape farms.

I will state that if space was not as much of an issue, the grape farms are better overall for culture and mana. Also if I can get the Maze of Dark Matter built, I will be upgrading it heavily.

Jps54, I'm glad that culture is not an issue for you. I have just over 48K at the moment, but will lose half of that when I start full on building the Halfling settlement and have to sell off libraries for space.

I guess I'm still not really understanding why you feel like you have to wait until the full 12 or 18 hours have passed in order to collect. You know there's not really any difference in mana gained if you collect early or later, right? You can collect from your grape farms every 12 hours, just like with the libraries, because they're able to collect starting at 9 hours (and a library can be collected after only 3 hours). To repeat, there is no difference in mana gained by collecting early or waiting until the timer's maxed out, though that does of course open you up to potentially missing out on a lot of mana if real life gets in the way of you being on to collect from your libraries once that bar fills up. You should just collect whenever it's available, regardless of how long is left on the production timer.

And as an aside, do NOT apply this 'wait until it's full' strategy and wait the full 24 hours to collect seeds from your trader because you get a bonus every time you collect based on your AW levels, which can be done every three hours. That means up to 8 bonuses per day versus just one if you only collect from your trader once a day...which in my case is a difference of nearly 20,000 seeds each day.

 

[SoggyShorts]

@Elven Ivory will it let you sell it?

 

[DeletedUser1390]

What a clever thought... and yes it appears it will! Never even thought whether you could sell a building under construction, but it appears you can, who knew.
So it's good to know if I really want my builder I can free him up for a modest price. I can let my colleague know this as well.
Thanks!

 

[DeletedUser3507]

I can't help myself I love culture. And it does help, ask @SoggyShorts who has 170% with nothing polished...