Release notes version 1.8

[DeletedUser551]

.....oh come on - no need to get personal here. BobbyKitty is a valuable contributor to this forum!!! The manner and style presented here should be welcomed? Ranting [excuse me please Bobby if that term offends you, I'm actually generalizing], getting passionate, being negative, etc, etc, etc, is a means of communicating. I didn't see any rules of the forum being broken here that required YOUR warning, not to post .....[well, none that I'm aware of, but I haven't read all the rules...lol]

I greatly welcome what BobbyKitty had to offer - it's valuable information that will help me in my future game play, especially during future tournaments...and now to be careful of unannounced upgrades!

I'm not sure if Moderators should get personal though?

Indeed, no forum rules were broken aside of the multi-posting one. I decided to be proactive and ask Bobbykitty to refrain from posting for a brief period of time, so as to avoid possible further warnings. It wasn't meant as a personal insult, and I'm more than glad for Bobby's contributions to the forums.

I think we might calmly suggest that you consider a bit more carefully before reprimanding a player based on your opinion rather than on forum rules.

See my answer above. I also merged your adjacent posts.

 

[DeletedUser594]

Hi Varron -
I have to presume you are talking about fighting with sorceress III when opening up new provinces? Because during my last two [2] tournaments, I auto-fought my way through 20 plus provinces [in excess of 160 encounters] and used either 5 granite golems, or 5 sorceress III, or a combination there of depending on the enemies, all using the autofight feature.

I do agree with you when opening new provinces, I hardly ever use autofight, I manually fight each encounter or I negotiate the "impossible ones". I play as an elf, so I do autofight all the Crystal provinces using 5 Treants - this combination has never lost yet....lol

I should have phrased that differently perhaps. They can be really good or suicidally bad. It's just a matter of knowing when not to use them. The sorceress III has more power and can work its way through fights that the sorc II would get killed fighting but they are still open to the same threat. If there is an enemy that has high initiative and good defense against the sorceress you run the danger of losing an easy fight if you auto because the AI algorithm locks them into attacking the high initiative target. They will ignore other threats that could be neutralized by spreading a few shots around and dial all 5 attacks against the one enemy while others hack them down.
The first time I lost 5 sorceress in a fight was when I hit auto half way through leaving them with just 2-3 units to finish up. Unfortunately one was a golem which all 5 attacked and while they dinked away a few Hp on the golem every round, they ignored the other two units that decimated them. You can get away with leaving them to auto fight multi-golem, or golem-steinling or other combo's right now bcs of the power discrepancy but when the enemy troops get close to equal it's easy to lose all 5 units in the wrong match-up.

 

[DeletedUser627]

Indeed, no forum rules were broken aside of the multi-posting one. I decided to be proactive and ask Bobbykitty to refrain from posting for a brief period of time, so as to avoid possible further warnings

If she didn't break any rules, what was the basis of asking her "to refrain from posting"?

 

[DeletedUser551]

If she didn't break any rules, what was the basis of asking her "to refrain from posting"?

While frustrated, it's easier to break additional rules which will only lead to additional infractions. Much safer to take a break before resuming posting about the update.

 

[dikke ikke]

I play this game now for 5 months, I don't have sourcerers level III nor Golems, I am human and just upgraded my paladins to level II, which means I am almost at then of level V. Every 14 days there had been an upgrade so this is not the first update during a tournament, and what is that about getting tired and not sleeping enough during tournaments. This is just complaining for nothing at all.

 

[DeletedUser627]

While frustrated, it's easier to break additional rules which will only lead to additional infractions. Much safer to take a break before resuming posting about the update.

Since she didn't break any rules in the first place, how can you justify your response by using the terms "break additional rules" and "additional infractions"? She didn't make any infractions to begin with.

I stay frustrated with Inno 24/7. Are you going to ask me to refrain from posting because it's possible I might actually make an infraction at some future date?

 

[DeletedUser61]

because she didn't make any infraction at all.

no forum rules were broken aside of the multi-posting one

I would hope that Bobbykitty's Fellowship Leaders are also concerned about the heath and well-being of their members,
and aren't sacrificing Fellowship Members on the High Score altar.

 

[DeletedUser627]

I would hope that Bobbykitty's Fellowship Leaders are also concerned about the heath and well-being of their members,
and aren't sacrificing Fellowship Members on the High Score altar.

What can I say about a mostly [semi]retired group of professionals? We're of the generation that goals are there to be met! Since we haven't been beaten by age or encroaching illness - it goes against the grain to say, 'well, this effing game, I just can't do it". I think if it were just about high scores, they'd plop down a few dollars here and there; it's more a generational thing. You know what I mean - we weren't raised to think that giving up is an option!

BobbyKitty especially, since she's testing the no-pay game. Tournaments are the only way she can make significant progress, since Expansions are so incredibly slow without purchase.

I play this game now for 5 months, I don't have sourcerers level III nor Golems, I am human and just upgraded my paladins to level II, which means I am almost at then of level V. Every 14 days there had been an upgrade so this is not the first update during a tournament, and what is that about getting tired and not sleeping enough during tournaments....

Congrats - sounds like you're progressing! To give some additional background - top tournament players are engaging in over battles during the 4 days of play. Much of this is manual play, since autofight creates too much loss. With yesterday's update, there was a noticeable increase in battle difficulty - both unannounced and unexplained. Had this been announced, players perhaps wouldn't have wasted troops opening 20+ provinces for a non-boost good. So it was a double whammy, of sorts. Spending hours and hours fighting, then finding out it may have been a waste of time.

And tournament play isn't really optional for advanced players - the KP and rune shards and relics are all crucial. If we don't fight, we will fall further and further behind. Some of this will start to evidence more in the next couple of weeks when Wonders start to score.

*******************

Those of us who began playing Elvenar a year or more ago are finding the $ pressure very frustrating.

For the first 6-10 months of the game, time and money were interchangeable

if you had time to invest, you could rank equally with a player who had money to invest

Then, after we'd invested time (and some money), Inno introduced changes that favor spenders. And, salt in the wound, one doesn't even have to be a skilled player to rank well - all it requires is money. Buy snails, autofight and buy troops and levels...up up you go!

I wouldn't be complaining if this had been the basis of the game from the outset. It's the feeling of "bait and switch". That feeling cheated, plus the marketing strategy which incorporates perpetual frustration in order to induce sales.​

 

[WolfSinger]

I must be one of the luckiest players in regards to the timing of the tournaments. I have yet to lose massive amounts of sleep. Of course - I also have a job, where I can pop into the game - depending on how busy we are.

First round is at noon (my time - Mountain Time in the US) - which I usually hit fairly quickly as soon as it starts. / Second round will then be a little after 4am the next morning - I usually hit between 5 and 6am. / That puts the third round for me between 9-10pm that evening. The forth round will then be 1-2pm the next day / the fifth round will then be around 5-6pm the next day with round 6 between 9-10am the next morning - leaving me approximately two hours buffer before the tournament ends.

 

[DeletedUser61]

With yesterday's update, there was a noticeable increase in battle difficulty - both unannounced and unexplained.

Does Inno have any idea what it is doing to its players?

You can find plenty of arguments about meat bag space, but Elvenar is clearly a designed environment although, regardless of how closely you examine the wiki, you won't find any indication of what the costs and difficulties of the battles are SUPPOSED to be.

Indeed, the combat models are complex enough so that most of the behaviors are emergent (a consequence), based on rules that are actually quite simple. So if "unannounced and unexplained" starts from day 1, then sure. But there's most certainly nothing in the wiki, nor in the game, about the "expected" strength nor disposition of the opposing armies for either Provinces nor Tournaments.

I can generate data with the best of them, and I'm comfortable with the analytical tools that are needed when underlying algorithms are probabilistic rather than deterministic and, while there are some definite patterns, all we actually have is the parameters for each of the units. Beyond that it's all artfully vague.
See https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/battle-troop-training-costs.2435/#post-14668,

Artfully vague is actually a pretty realistic approach for a combat environment. Regardless of how the previous battles have gone, and the rewards that were received, the NEXT war "should" be different. For my money the developers SHOULD be steering the costs/difficulties to balance the game. Even if the developers weren't tinkering with the balance, the units themselves have a range of random attack values, which ensures that no two battles will ever be identical, even when the combat engine is only managing the defenders.

 

[DeletedUser1016]

First round is at noon (my time - Mountain Time in the US) - which I usually hit fairly quickly as soon as it starts. / Second round will then be a little after 4am the next morning - I usually hit between 5 and 6am. / That puts the third round for me between 9-10pm that evening. The forth round will then be 1-2pm the next day / the fifth round will then be around 5-6pm the next day with round 6 between 9-10am the next morning - leaving me approximately two hours buffer before the tournament ends.

Wow, you got this thing figured out, impressive!

I have a similar strategy for getting to level 6, not very different from you, I just don't have the times "nailed" down so precisely as you...lol: I play the first hour the tournament starts [Tues] & the last hour [Sat] before it finishes [that's two rounds, then just once a day [which is the other 3 days [Wed, Thurs, Fri] - hence 3 more rounds], then in anyone of those "3-days" squeezing in two rounds exactly 16hrs apart [6th & final round]. What's key is doing one set 16 hours apart, i.e.: 8am, then midnight; and to complete the 1st round ASAP.

 

[Maz Mellor]

I lost 5 once when they had 3 troops left to kill but all 5 went after one golem, apparently with a pillow

::SNORT:: Your posts always crack me up, Varron. Thank you for that!!

Also the portraits would be more aesthetic, in my opinion, if they were circles, not squares - another quick, easy and simple incorporation.

I agree, circles would be more appealing. Not a big issue by any stretch, but still.

 

[DeletedUser551]

Since she didn't break any rules in the first place, how can you justify your response by using the terms "break additional rules" and "additional infractions"? She didn't make any infractions to begin with.

I stay frustrated with Inno 24/7. Are you going to ask me to refrain from posting because it's possible I might actually make an infraction at some future date?

Actually, she did break the rule regarding multi-posting, and she has done so multiple times in the past. Hence, additional rules and additional infractions.

The difference lies in how you express your frustration with InnoGames. In every instance you have broken the rules you have been warned, both publicly and privetly. But since your violations have traditionally been outright, I never had to publicly issue a simiral warning to you. The line between breaking a rule and not breaking one is accurately described by Bobbykitty's attitude in the post I verbally warned.

Please stay on track with the topic, but feel free to privately message me if you want to further discuss the topic of forum moderation. If you feel I didn't appropriately handle a situation, please message the community manager directly and she'll look into it.

 

[DeletedUser1016]

Please stay on track with the topic, but feel free to privately message me if you want to further discuss the topic of forum moderation. If you feel I didn't appropriately handle a situation, please message the community manager directly and she'll look into it.

Please provide her contact info, link, or directions on doing this...thank you.

His email address is frenesis@team.elvenar.us < looked it up since I was surprised at this thread going south.

Thanks - will do. I presumed a "she" and not a "he" because of Synesthesia's reference..."she'll look into it"? Nonetheless, I sent my concerns regarding "airing personal laundry" to Frenesis

 

[DeletedUser2753]

His email address is frenesis@team.elvenar.us < looked it up since I was surprised at this thread going south.

 

[DeletedUser551]

Messaging me on my personal e-mail won't do you any good in that regard. Private message either me, or Ælfwine.

Please return to the topic. No use further derailing the conversation.

 

[DeletedUser2753]

I was caught of guard by the last upgrade 1.8 during the tournament but used the forum to get some insight. I also reported a bug with the ranking indicator, upper let, with out a response other then they were having issues with their servers. I am surprised at the practice of releasing code to bata for one week and then passing it all on to production the next week even if it has a known bug. but that is just my take on it.

Now to get back to my reaction to this release. It appears that the developers have hit some sort of wall. To not release the Coming Soon parts of fairies is lets say at best problematic, We, the customer, player, diamond buyer have no guidance when that feature will arrive or what there requirements will be. I have held fairie farms in my city because I think they will be needed to pay for there new fighters. am I wrong? Who knows, the devs do, we don't.

In a more general vain I must say this game has been changed from a cooperative building game with progressive levels to one that as I said earlier has hit a wall because of its design. The city is limited in size and therefore can not be expanded once you complete the last few chapters, Then they add more Ancient Wonders, which are by design harder and harder to build (the Rune/Shard issue). The result is advanced players are forced into a whole new game of collection shards, collection KPs and building wonders and nothing else. Frankly I feel betrayed. This is not a solution to expanding this game based on the original intent and sale as a cooperative city building game.

 

[DeletedUser1016]

I have held fairie farms in my city because I think they will be needed to pay for there new fighters. am I wrong? Who knows, the devs do, we don't.

Errr- I hope not - I've moved on and deleted all my Fairy Chapter buildings....I'm hoping all I need is to build the mercenary camp? I've held off constructing this because of the delay in new fairy troops - with such a long delay, I'm glad I didn't take up the space early on!

 

[DeletedUser43]

I was going to stay out of this, but this is getting insane. O M G a double post! Get out the bazookas, ban the player from the forums! Katwijk has whole threads that are filled with nothing but him posting...post after post after post. And for good reason. If he kept posting and adding it to the last post, it would be unwieldy to read. He double, triple, quadruple, quintuple, posts because it makes his comments clearer. At some point, it just hurts communication to keep adding on totally different thoughts. It is why we have paragraphs andspacesbetweenwordssothattheeyedoesn'tgettiredandsometimesadoubleposthelps. I also always put two spaces after a sentence so that it is easier to read too.

I respect the concept behind not wanting double posts, but at some point you have to let go of a rule here and there and use common sense. I have idk... thousands of posts? I have double posted less than 10 times. All of those times were for very good reasons. So, please don't speak about me as if I am some horrible rule breaker who deserves a public dressing down. Not only do I not deserve it, but once again, others watching the forums are chilled from making comments.


I'm glad the times work out for some players, for others, it is a real discomfort. We are a global game with players in a big country with lots of different time zones. Other servers only focus on one time zone. But even still, people have different times that work better for them. Some can play at night, others are morning people, some work. That means that for many, the times of the tournaments don't work for them. These tournaments have really cut down on the potential audience for the whole game since without playing in them you can't do well and who wants to play a game you know you can't do well in? But...hey....this is not my company. I don't have any stock in it either. If they want to cut off many potential customers, that's their business.

Not to mention, even if you can make those close cut off times, you can't manually fight all the battles in that time period. It takes too long.

 

[DeletedUser61]

This is not a solution to expanding this game based on the original intent and sale as a cooperative city building game.

For those of us who have played Forge of Empires, is apparent that Elvenar is a progeny of FoE, The scramble for Rune Shards (blueprints) and Ancient Wonders (Great Buildings) was a long time coming. Likewise the cater/negotiate/fight paradigm and the navel staring contests at the end of each tech tree release.

The game has TWO phases:

1. At the start of a new chapter there's a mad scramble to upgrade your buildings, and finish the tech tree. Then you wait for more content. The Advanced Scouting Chests pretty much recreate that condition for folks who are still catching up.
2. While you're waiting, you focus on Tournaments and acquiring more Provinces, to get Relics, Rune Shards, and Knowledge Points, all of which allow you to create temporary buffs (Spells) and permanent buffs (Ancient Wonders).

I am surprised at the practice of releasing code to bata for one week and then passing it all on to production the next week even if it has a known bug.

It's actually a two week cycle. See https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?forums/release-notes.6/.

1. New code is released into the public Beta, and the notes are published just AFTER the code is released
2. If there's something fatal, it's hotfixed as soon as possible
3. The beta community tries to break the code, for 10 days
4. There's a final hotfix just before the production release, for the stuff that could be reproduced and fixed
5. The Production notes are Released shortly BEFORE the production release
6. We finally see the Production Release, usually shortly after 9 am German Time on alternate Wednesdays
7. If something goes crosswise during the release to the production servers a hotfix may be needed, typically within a few hours of the release.

Just as a FYI, in Forge of Empires they are experimenting with incremental Beta releases, to they're seeing new code every couple of days.

Can you tell that I like Beta environments, and being just a half jump behind the developers??