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Restart: Re-balance spell fragments (SF) between GW and HH. Re-balance SF in Lab to 0%

Re-balance spell fragments (SF) between GW and HH


  • Total voters
    22
  • Poll closed .

sam767

Well-Known Member
Polls Opened: July 20th
This is a restart of the prior unrecoverable thread. As I came to fully appreciate the elegance of Ashrem's suggestion to manipulate probabilities, I made it an integral part of both parts of the suggestion.

The recommendation has 2 parts:
1. Re-balance the spell fragments between the Gateway and High halls by increasing probabilities in the Gateway and reducing them by an offsetting amount in the High Halls. Then re-balance the remaining rewards in each to sum to 100% for each chest.
2. In the Lab, remove the SFs with no replacement. Re-balance the other probabilities. (This may not be possible and dropping the SF probability to 1% or 5% may not be aesthetically pleasing). Another option is to just replace the SFs with some other reward.

Pros:
1. Gives beginning players more SFs in the Gateway.
2. There are no changes to the rewards - just different probabilities.
3. For experienced players who routinely run the spire, it removes the agony of the 500 SF award in the Laboratory. THE SPIRE IS NOT EASY FOR ANYONE.
4. By managing probabilities of the current rewards set, it pushes all discussion of new rewards in the spire to a new suggestion
5, Should be trivial to implement.
6. This is a highly specific suggestion that addresses(in part) one problem many have with possessing hundreds of thousands of SFs, and further, it eliminates those insulting 500SF rewards in the Lab.
Cons:
1. By eliminating SFs and re balancing the remaining rewards in the lab, we are slightly increasing the average value of the rewards in the lab. This was not part of the original concept. Most would consider this a pro.

The prior thread is linked in the next comment.

Thanks for Xelenia's guiding hand and all of your constructive suggestions (in the prior thread) for this forum newbie.
Thanks to Ashrem for encouragement and fantastic suggestions.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

sam767

Well-Known Member
Link to prior thread is here.
It evolved from a demand side discussion (find new uses for SFs) to a supply side discussion - reduce the number of SFs.

The problem with excess spell fragments has been extensively discussed in the prior thread. There was almost complete consensus that the number of fragments in the Lab is too much.

Other notions discussed.
1. Increase then rewards as we ascend the spire. Great idea but not part of this discussion. For those in an FS, the team spire accomplishes this in an elegant fashion.
2. All comments about new rewards are obsoleted by the current form of the suggestion. We can bring them back based on additional discussion, but I am getting attached to only manipulating probabilities.
3. The comment about Gateway cities needing the other prizes was partially offset by not changing the prize set. There is a potential issue that some might like the current SF probabilities because they have enough SFs and don't want to go into the HH.
4. A couple of posters specifically alluded to a shortage of SFs in chapter 4.
 
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samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
Posting mainly to pull this thread back towards the top of the forum in order to get more of a discussion going.. Good job on this version @sam767
Looking forward to opinions on how these specific changes might impact players with various play styles and at various chapter levels throughout the game.
 

Crow Last Elf

Well-Known Member
Looking forward to opinions on how these specific changes might impact players with various play styles and at various chapter levels throughout the game.

I have a city in Orcs (chpt8) and a city in chpt. 5. The Orc city placed one entire Moonstone library set around the end of Dwarves(chpt6). The chpt.5 city does not have the moonstone library, it does have endless scrolls and one plant(not both). I always finish the second level in the Orcs city and rarely go further. The chpt.5 city finishes somewhere within the second level, I don't always complete it. In both cities, I craft as much as possible, but rarely use time boosters in crafting (also, my Orc city needs petfood and the chpt. 5 city does not)

Once I placed the Moonstone library set in my Orc city, my spell fragments began accumulating, I wouldn't have any use for SF's awarded in level 3. In my chpt.5 city, I am desperate for spell fragments and often skip crafting items. If I had a pet in my chpt.5 city, I would need even more. I'm convinced the difference is in placing the Moonstone library.

As far as the OP's recommendation, shifting SF from level 2 to level 1 would be welcome to my chpt.5 city. Also, I think a pro is that elimination of spell fragments in the Lab would make the Moonstone Library set's output (a spire reward), more valued.

The topic of the spire came up recently in my fs, all with cities around chapter 8 like mine, all who rarely go to the third level, and several members mentioned they wished they won spell fragments less often.

I tried to guess why my chpt. 8 city is so different from @CrazyWizard 's experience in a city that started in Sept/Oct as well and I can only guess that in order to use more SF, I would need to increase my CC gain through spire rewards or time boosts, craft some of the higher cost recipes that I don't currently, and somehow craft more, maybe using time boosts regularly in the MA. Something to think about, for sure.
 

Deleted User - 4646370

Guest
I'm convinced the difference is in placing the Moonstone library.
Agreed. The moonstone library set produces 525 SF a day, while each Spire level awards 700 SF a day. This means a city with 4 sets produces as much from these as the whole Spire awards. This being said, I wonder if people doing the whole Spire but not putting the sets are swimming on SFs.
Note : the set also produces 525 SF per CC. Only one recipe (Supply Windfall 20%) outside of SF-only ones require that much SF per CC.
 

skeeter6060

Member
yes I agree something has tp be done with the abundance of SF from the spire I don't mind buying/spending diamonds but I now refuse to use them in the spire and actually though I like to spire I am going to cut back on playing it due to constantly getting SF. This spire I am in the second to last block at the very top. I have gotten SF from every regular chest except 3 I realize they are based on % but come on if you want us to spend money buying diamonds we have to get some value out of it thank you
 

sam767

Well-Known Member
Slightly reworded the first post to remove the comment that this idea might evolve. Replaced that sentence with an option to just replace the SF rewards. I think this has simmered for long enough and we are ready for a vote.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
I am starting to feel that any spell fragment rewards after the first floor are unnecessary. My little chapter 4 Beta city has never gone further than the first encounter of the second floor and I have yet to be too short on fragments to craft something I really wanted. And when I am a little short, I already have a decent supply of enchantments to disenchant.
 

AtaguS

Well-Known Member
Slightly reworded the first post to remove the comment that this idea might evolve. Replaced that sentence with an option to just replace the SF rewards. I think this has simmered for long enough and we are ready for a vote.
Yes let's vote!
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Slightly reworded the first post to remove the comment that this idea might evolve. Replaced that sentence with an option to just replace the SF rewards. I think this has simmered for long enough and we are ready for a vote.
You'll want to ping Xelenia to explicitly request a vote.
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
wow , how can anyone be ch5 and not swimming in frags ....
I'm 1/2 way thru ch3, and I have too many already......
and this week is week 4 in Spire.......

I think there's a better solution, and sometimes I get very few frags
in chests in the spire, 1 more portal profit and I'll scream, hahahaha...
Now that voting has started, am I sposs'd to give my solution anyway ??

I might be able to support this, but I seriously need to see why everyone
says its so expensive, but then ppl around here think 2:1 is expensive
for a trade, so what do I know....
BrinD
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Now that voting has started, am I sposs'd to give my solution anyway ??
If you think it's a viable idea, you should start a suggestion thread for it. Or bring it up in the general forum and link to that here. People won't be able to vote on your diea in this thread, and the Op can't modify their idea to reflect it.
 

DeletedUser26692

Guest
While I agree that the higher you go in the spire the better rewards you should get ... I don't want to loose the ability to earn the amount that I do now. So if they put the SF from the other floors into the first floor.... That would be great. However I hope they don't take them out without increasing them in the lower floor. I don't know if it's just me but I get more timers when I'm trying to get SF,lol.
 

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
@Xelenia
Did this idea ever get forwarded? Complaints resurfaced in the Discussion section in this thread.
Either we all were worn out by the time this got beaten to death hammered out :p or maybe the prefix just never got changed to 'forwarded'. With so many posters involved in 2 threads and the amount of work that went into it, seems like it deserves to have the devs at least see it even if they don't end up agreeing with it...
 

sam767

Well-Known Member
I assume it got forwarded. Recovering from toxic mold poisoning - sorry for my absence. Now I am in Oregon within a mile of amandatory evacuation zone. Someday life will get back to calm and normal.
 

Xelenia

Ex-Team Member
@Xelenia
Did this idea ever get forwarded? Complaints resurfaced in the Discussion section in this thread.
Either we all were worn out by the time this got beaten to death hammered out :p or maybe the prefix just never got changed to 'forwarded'. With so many posters involved in 2 threads and the amount of work that went into it, seems like it deserves to have the devs at least see it even if they don't end up agreeing with it...

It was forwarded, just never changed this it looked out. Keeping me on my toes :p
 
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