Rune Shard changes

[samidodamage]

@Soleil Nightbloom
I don't think the type of kp matters. It seems to be purely a function of balance between the amount of kp that has been donated to a city's AWs and the amount of kp that city has donated to other cities' AWs.
The only possible way to get 'locked out' of receiving kp donations is for the city to receive way more kp donations in their AWs than they donate to other cities. Your contributions to your own AW's don't impact this at all. I see where this initial frenzy of unloading excess runes is causing the cap to be reached frequently. I'm hoping once that settles down, the players who are most likely to encounter this cap are those with feeder accounts.

I agree with @Deborah M as well; tracking donated vs received AW kp is not something I think should be left for each player to figure out on their own. I also understand Inno's reluctance to release the numbers to avoid workarounds created by the very accounts they're trying to limit. So, I have no answers, just more questions, lol!

 

[Soleil Nightbloom]

@Soleil Nightbloom
I don't think the type of kp matters. It seems to be purely a function of balance between the amount of kp that has been donated to a city's AWs and the amount of kp that city has donated to other cities' AWs.
The only possible way to get 'locked out' of receiving kp donations is for the city to receive way more kp donations in their AWs than they donate to other cities. Your contributions to your own AW's don't impact this at all. I see where this initial frenzy of unloading excess runes is causing the cap to be reached frequently. I'm hoping once that settles down, the players who are most likely to encounter this cap are those with feeder accounts.

Thanks so much! You are always very helpful

 

[Soleil Nightbloom]

I’m curious if anyone knows if the KP Cap varies depending on which chapter you are in (e.g., the Sack of Coins badge in the FA) or is it a set amount for everyone regardless of what chapter you are in?

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I’m curious if anyone knows if the KP Cap varies depending on which chapter you are in (e.g., the Sack of Coins badge in the FA) or is it a set amount for everyone regardless of what chapter you are in?

Probably the same for everyone because people use little cities for pushing.

 

[Elivarian]

Actually, it makes it worse, more KP to give and the value to give within your own fellowship becomes quite limited. So, the only place to give quantity and get a return is OUTSIDE the fellowship. And the ill-gotten gains come in at much higher pace, encouraging greater and greater "Thievery". Also, since shards are now worth 15 each, there is little point to taking the last chest, not when the first chest has become so much more valuable. Besides, a locked player is encouraged to give away KPs to get unlocked. To add insult to injury, the chests keep rolling from chest wins even after being locked to encourage greater and greater "thievery". The limits only stop people from giving KPs not from gaining chests.

Even by your definitions it is far worse. It needs to be fixed. The rules encourage what you and many players consider bad behavior. This new regime, where optimal behavior is taking away the #1 chest of neighbors without limit, is not good game design. I am an optimizer and competitive, so I try to find the best solution to any situation. So that bad behavior is the optimum, which I am not taking to the extreme for two reasons, it isn't fun for me or others - bad game design.

BTW, I do not consider 1 bad behavior. If a fellowship only gives 1 to their fellows, they are just too stingy for words and deserve to lose chests. In my fellowship, it takes not less than 40 to gain the top chest and over 100 is not unusual. One should help their fellows. If someone is on their own, all help is appreciated. If one is in a fellowship, they should materially help one another. In the current mania, I out bid an outsider that posted 150 on an AW within our fellowship on principle. But it just proves that there is no shortage of players that will seek the optimum. Pejoratives will not stop the behavior you find objectionable; good game design will.

I have been playing this game since 2016, and none of the FS' i have been in has had the same view as yours. When i played on EN servers, there was a few that hunted in packs, and i can only say; They were not liked.

Adding 1 KP to another players AW is not help. It is what it is. It's trying to gaing 5 KP or more for giving just one. There's nothing more to it.

If you add more, to among other things, getting runes, then your helping. But you also get help yourself. Runes for new researched AW's are a pain to get. I have added a lot of KP's this way to get runes for upgrading them. I have even had separate swap threads going with outside players where we helped each other build those AW's.

 

[MichaelMichael]

@Soleil Nightbloom
I don't think the type of kp matters. It seems to be purely a function of balance between the amount of kp that has been donated to a city's AWs and the amount of kp that city has donated to other cities' AWs.

Not quite, I donated a couple hundred KP today and received about 30 KPs to my AWs. I was locked most of the day. However I gained about 500 points so far as chests for contributions I made at an earlier date. I find it annoying that others cannot get the chests my upgrades generated. I will do my best to give away another 600 or so and see what happens.

 

[MichaelMichael]

I have been playing this game since 2016, and none of the FS' i have been in has had the same view as yours. When i played on EN servers, there was a few that hunted in packs, and i can only say; They were not liked.

Adding 1 KP to another players AW is not help. It is what it is. It's trying to gaing 5 KP or more for giving just one. There's nothing more to it.

If you add more, to among other things, getting runes, then your helping. But you also get help yourself. Runes for new researched AW's are a pain to get. I have added a lot of KP's this way to get runes for upgrading them. I have even had separate swap threads going with outside players where we helped each other build those AW's.

The reason there is a reward is to encourage giving KPs. What is wrong with trading 1 for 5? It is exactly that nothing more, nothing less and doesn't hurt the receiver at all. I will agree it gives a very minor benefit to the receiver, until someone 1 ups it to 2, and then somewhat ups it again and the 1 is often worth Zero. That happens all time. Buyers hoping for 5 chest for 1 KP, beware. The fact that there is an expected profit does not make it bad or make the person offering 1 KP a thief.

So would you mind if I contributed a few hundred KPs to your city and fellowship but below the expected return? I see that as far more aggressive and damaging as it denies shards especially to smaller fellowships. Based on you suggestion of "helping" people, I just gave 30-80 KP to 10 other players that were relatively close to finishing their AWs. In each case, I took the top position. I expect to earn more than I spent. Is that BETTER behavior in your estimation?

BTW, If I cared what people decided that they liked, I would have quit a long time ago. I play as an optimization challenge, not to win any popularity contests. No one ever likes it when they are outbid. The person that offered more is disliked by definition because no one likes to ever admit that they were too slow, lazy or stupid to win in any competition. I play for the challenge of growing as fast as possible within the rules as written. Some might consider it rude to tell others how they "should" play any game (beyond minding their P's and Q's).

 

[samidodamage]

@Elivarian
Total agreement here. And, I'm glad to announce that both of my FS's will happily take anyone's 1kp on our AW's. Of course, we're going to actively bump it down to where there is no return to the player who so 'generously' helped us. We just post in chat when it happens and voila! All chests taken, none go outside the FS, done.
>>Sami dusts off hands<<

 

[SunsetDanar]

I would like to respond to everyone individually but it would be time intensive so sort of a scatter message. I don't think that anyone should disagree that this is a great move by Inno. Restoring value to something that had none previously can only be a good thing. To those who argue that it has created havoc in your fellowships, get a grip, take command, learn what it takes to make this a useful tool for you and keep your members informed. Getting locked is not the kiss of death nor does it last "forever". All that is required is donations to get unlocked As for the fairness aspect I see it as fair for every level so you deal with the Runes and KPs at the level you are at in your FS.

 

[Veesviewpoint]

I would like to respond to everyone individually but it would be time intensive so sort of a scatter message. I don't think that anyone should disagree that this is a great move by Inno. Restoring value to something that had none previously can only be a good thing. To those who argue that it has created havoc in your fellowships, get a grip, take command, learn what it takes to make this a useful tool for you and keep your members informed. Getting locked is not the kiss of death nor does it last "forever". All that is required is donations to get unlocked As for the fairness aspect I see it as fair for every level so you deal with the Runes and KPs at the level you are at in your FS.

That's just it...why not send a note so those of us know about push accounts can "get it/make it a part of the fellowship teams..." and not have to suffer being closed off 4 days..because someone gifted them 300 kp's ???
Who knew about it (in a timely manner) to stop this new "rule"?? I know my team mate was so happy to get rid of thousands of kp/runes and suffered a team mate to "appear" receiving from push accounts...none of either party new/understood this new "upgrade? duh and are not happy to knock off those of us who don't tolerate push accounts.
At least go back and per team...if there is someone using a "push" account...known or unknown... sigh...and credit back being knocked/blocked by a no push account team mate. They sought an opportunity to being generous.
Doesn't seem to be well thought out...I have had issues come up in my game...and it was always addressed quickly and correctly. I have given them 5 star rating for being so efficient...but not this time.

I realize (so they say) that they wanted to "catch" folks who had "push cities" and yes...needs to be addressed...but not like this...you may just get those who play the game keep the standard rules of fellowships etc. Well guess what...how many "push accounts" have been shut down...what is the follow up?

 

[MichaelMichael]

Getting locked is not the kiss of death nor does it last "forever"

It does last forever. I give away over 500 KPs every day and am still locked for most hours of most every day. I will admit that I have plenty of KPs to spend, but it becomes a chore to spend them. I have taken to sending lots of 50 or more to anyone that trades with me. I have become the largest contributor for most of my fellowship's AWs. It really does last forever but I can agree that it is not the kiss of death. It actually is the opposite, it makes the game too easy and discourages team play. Giving is very different than trading.

BTW I gave you a gift

 

[MaidenFair]

It does last forever. I give away over 500 KPs every day and am still locked for most hours of most every day.

I and currently getting perhaps as many as 3000 Kp in instants each day - I know for a fact that I got 249 "5 KP shards" today as I did not spend them until tonight.

If you're getting that many kp back in a day, then yes, you are going to stay locked unless you are also giving away over 3000 kp in a day. Those instants count towards your balance just the same as someone donating directly to you.

 

[MichaelMichael]

If you're getting that many kp back in a day, then yes, you are going to stay locked unless you are also giving away over 3000 kp in a day. Those instants count towards your balance just the same as someone donating directly to you.

On review, I thought I was getting 3,000 (and perhaps I was during the first weekend after the change). On review today, it was just about 800 in instants. I also gave away gratis about 1600 KP today so perhaps I won't be locked tomorrow.

 

[MaidenFair]

@MichaelMichael , sounds like a good start!

 

[BrinDarby]

none go outside the FS

Left u a Gift, on an AW with 0 .... no shards used, no KP chain snafu'd.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Related to this, I've heard some wild numbers given (90!) on how many rune shards to save for the next rune phase. My rune phases usually only take 20-30 shards and the higher end is only with bad luck. What are your experiences with this?

I'd say 20 is fine.
If you start with a full bar as I always do, then you just plunk 6-8 in for 5-6 spots, then use bar, then plunk more in until the last spot, and use bar again.
What's hard, and I think trips people up is conditioning yourself to NOT use your full bar on the second last spot. It is twice as easy to get that spot compared to the last one, so using a bar on the last one is kinda 100% more effective.

As a bonus, if you time an upgrade during the tournament you can get an entire extra bar.

 

[zookie46]

It is working very well in the live worlds. My FS went on a donating spree, and was able to get at least one AW to the point of leveling up for every person in the FS. This really helped to use up runes that some of our larger players had in abundance to help out our smaller members. We didn't start a special thread for this though. We have other threads that are used for regular donations. We still want our members to use the threads that were already set up, and our larger members used the new feature to give our members a bonus just because they are members.

 

[crackie]

Just good timing

Ok back to oddness of this lockout mechanism. I tried to add 40 to finish a teammate's wonder. Got a msg saying I can't because he's now locked. I asked him to donate 40 out so I can finish his wonder. He donates 45 out to me. I finish his wonder. Then I tried to see how much it would allow me to pay back the new batch of 45 he just gave me on a different wonder before it locks me out of his wonder again. I was able to donate all 45. Essentially, I started locked out of his wonder. He donates 45, but I was able to donate 85 back. If it's not wonder specific, then it's also not 1:1 ratio on inbound/outbound?

 

[samidodamage]

If it's not wonder specific, then it's also not 1:1 ratio on inbound/outbound?

I *think* both of those statements are true. It looks like it's total donations made to any AW's in a city. And, it looks like the cap on those donations, while tied to the amount that city has received, is higher than the donations received and remains that way. Thus why I think that when the initial frenzy dies down, it will work as intended for the most part.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Ok back to oddness of this lockout mechanism.

Your buddy finished a wonder, and since there were chest rewards handed out from his wonder his balance improved.

So it's
inbound : outbound 1:1
plus
an allowance each day (adds up)
plus
handing out chests from your wonder