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    Your Elvenar Team

Scouting/Completing provinces

Aritra

Well-Known Member
Each chapter requires a certain number of provinces completed for you to pass into it.
Thanks for that reminder. I was sure it had to be in-game, and in tech tree, but all I could visualize of the tree was expansions that don't require scouting. I forgot about passage from chapter to chapter.

So, I understand that anything beyond the passage requirement costs more and this sets a pace. You can go past it; It is just an unnecessary expense. That answers the pacing question.
I realize the answer could be subjective, but what basic guide (rule of thumb) can indicate how much past it is fine versus problematic.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
On the browser (haven't checked on mobile), when you go to the world map they added a honeycomb shaped icon at the bottom where you can choose the next province to scout. The first column in the Scoutable provinces tab shows the ring number where that province is located. Before they added this feature, all we could do was count the hexes going out from our city.

This is almost correct. The number shown there is actually the distance in between your city and the province you want to scout but does not count that province. That makes the correct ring that number+1. Or the easier way is to look at the number of ranking points you earn for completing an encounter. That number equals the ring number.
 

Deleted User - 4750465

Guest
Bad is being used by players in the sense of wasting resources. "Over" scouting literally costs you more to do the same number of provinces at the defined pace. Each advanced scout tech reduces the cost of any provinces scouted after that, and therefore reduces the troop loss or expense of goods for negotiating. As a result, scouting early means you pay twice, more coin to scout and more resources to clear.
Coin is not a hard resource to maintain in early to mid game. Over-researching is just as dangerous as over-scouting, and I would argue it's more dangerous to people who don't fully understand all the impacts. I see many people who have over-researched and now cannot compete well in tournaments or Spire. Over-scouting, yes costs extra coin and goods, but far outweighs the impact to extra provinces and wonders (assuming you are getting the extra KP now from tournaments) within the core formulas.
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
I realize the answer could be subjective, but what basic guide (rule of thumb) can indicate how much past it is fine versus problematic.
It is completely subjective. The rule I use is, once I go past that number, I only scout if I can afford to clear all open provinces.

So if I have an open province, i will not scout another one until i can clear the open one. I dont always clear it first, I just have to be able to clear it. That way I always have a firm handle on costs and never get stuck.


I see many people who have over-researched and now cannot compete well in tournaments or Spire.
This is a unique perspective. I am not sure what you mean. Do you mean, say rushing into chapter 5 before you have t3s up and running?
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Coin is not a hard resource to maintain in early to mid game.
Which is why I said the cost is low. It's still a cost.

Over-researching is just as dangerous as over-scouting, and I would argue it's more dangerous to people who don't fully understand all the impacts. I see many people who have over-researched and now cannot compete well in tournaments or Spire.
That's a strange comment. I assume you are talking about Optional Squad techs, which used to have a negative effect on Tournaments, but never had any effect on Spire and no longer affect tournaments so are no longer relevant.

yes costs extra coin and goods, but far outweighs the impact to extra provinces and wonders (assuming you are getting the extra KP now from tournaments) within the core formulas.
The amount it outweighs is relative to how much you've scouted. It might be "far" on the first few provinces, but over time it grows less, and eventually stops being worth while. It's not like you get a refund of all those resources once you do the scout for the next chapter.
 

Aritra

Well-Known Member
You're just reading too fast, Aritra ;) Ashrem gave you that answer here:
I read it but didn't see the answer.
It was like another language to me.
I needed a simple answer, but simply, I suppose, there isn't one. Simply, I suppose you can go past but not more than a few (or whatever).
 

Deleted User - 4750465

Guest
Which is why I said the cost is low. It's still a cost.

That's a strange comment. I assume you are talking about Optional Squad techs, which used to have a negative effect on Tournaments, but never had any effect on Spire and no longer affect tournaments so are no longer relevant.

The amount it outweighs is relative to how much you've scouted. It might be "far" on the first few provinces, but over time it grows less, and eventually stops being worth while. It's not like you get a refund of all those resources once you do the scout for the next chapter.
No, I mean over-researching in terms of moving too quickly through the tree before your city and wonders can support the tournament and spire.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
No, I mean over-researching in terms of moving too quickly through the tree before your city and wonders can support the tournament and spire.

Yes, but getting into the guest races and needing the guest race goods, or mana or seeds or sentient goods, will slow you back down.
 

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
It was like another language to me
Sorry, I'll try again.
If you look at the number of provinces that you need to complete to open the next chapter, then completing somewhere between 10 and 20 percent more provinces than that number should mean you gain more in rewards (kp/relics/expansions/etc) than you use in excess resources. Ex: If the required number of provinces to open the next chapter is 50, you should be able to safely complete 5-10 more provinces or 55-60 provinces total before activating Adv Scouts for the next chapter. If the required number is 100, you can complete 10-20 more provinces or 110-120 total provinces. The range of percentage is because you need to take into consideration how frequently you produce/collect resources (ex: collecting every 3hrs gives you more resources than collecting every 9hrs). Also, the farther along you are in chapters, the more you can go towards the upper end of those percentages and still maintain enough of those resources in your inventory for the other things in the game where you need them.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
No, I mean over-researching in terms of moving too quickly through the tree before your city and wonders can support the tournament and spire.
Neither of them is required content. Consider:

How is having them available to you but not being able to do well in them somehow more "dangerous" than not being able to do them because you haven't researched them yet?
 

Aritra

Well-Known Member
@samidodamage
Thank you
Applying that, if I've done it correctly, I'm entering ch.7 at basically 22% ahead, which is above that 10-20 recommendation, but not so crazy over that it will be problematic (I hope) and moving forward I will back off for a bit. Or maybe I am: I'm just one province shy of being granted entrance to Orcs, except I still have Fairies to do! Hahaha
 

Lelanya

Scroll-Keeper, Keys to the Gems
Ok I have a couple of points
The ring you are in is expressed in terms of the ranking points you receive when solving it.
The honeycomb set up displays as one point lower than actual ring.
Overscouted has been defined by Timon Glatt, who designed chapters 1 to 14. He says a player should have what they need to open the next chapter, and maybe 8 to 10 more. So Ed and Sami are correct with their numbers, and colours.
 

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
Overall, @Ashrem and others gave very good advice to players in the early to mid chapters. Over scouting becomes less of a problem later in the game, in my opinion, but there are reasons for not completing the scouted provinces. What follows is my experience with playing the game.

Early in the game I would use the target number to enter the next chapter to basically pace me through the chapter and usually do a few more to get another expansion, a plot of land, or maybe two. Another reason for pacing through the chapter was events asking for scouting, relics and encounters.

Once I reached woodelves, I've pretty much kept my scout busy. Coins and hammers were not a problem, but I wanted the land. Scouting time begins to get long (over a day - now it's like 5 days) so continuous scouting helped a lot with keeping ahead of the events and having what was needed to enter the next chapter. In the Halflings chapter, divine seeds become a resource and seed production is directly tied to the number of completed provinces, so having more completed was a good thing. Seed production remains is a struggle for many people even with some building producing them. I'm sure that is a ways off for you and not a concern yet.

With the new tourney method, plots of land placed go into the calculation of your spire and tourney stack size. This is a point of contention with the new method, but my feeling is you need to be in the later chapters before that is much of a problem. Since it's new there is debate as to when and if to place plots of land. I'm just mentioning it here because of the amount of discussion about this and other aspects of the changes which I hope will stay in the Tournament Changes thread and you may want look at that. Be forewarned. Take wading boots. It's a vicious swamp in places.
 
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