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    Your Elvenar Team

Send in the Commander

I voted against - pls send hate mail to my PM. It is an extremely interesting idea but too complicated for the level of development effort Elvenar can fund. I am involved in the endless beta test of a monster WWII game that never stops adding extremely complex features all to diminishing returns. There is too much low hanging fruit to implement this extremely expensive idea. (I am a retired dev).
Thanks for voting! I am new to the forum, but personally vote for or against an idea only based on whether it sounds good to me or not. Since the poll results will only determine if the devs will see the idea at some point or not (and they are obviously not compelled to do anything), I leave it to the devs to determine if it's worth the effort. Who knows, it might just 'inspire' them a bit and emerge as part of some other idea they had already been working on! :)
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
Voted against. It increases yet again the value of for military-focused players without adding anything for those who aren't interested in combat, and there are a lot of military boost effects in the game, and most of them are already only available to advanced cities. I don't feel like we need anything else to make fighting easier at the late game.
 
Voted against. It increases yet again the value of for military-focused players without adding anything for those who aren't interested in combat, and there are a lot of military boost effects in the game, and most of them are already only available to advanced cities. I don't feel like we need anything else to make fighting easier at the late game.
Also @PaNonymeB Thanks for voting. 1. Did you see the logistics commander suggestion that reduces cater costs? 2. If commanders are added, the fights will also be adjusted for the fact. This is not to make fights easier, but to add flavor to them. 3. The 'late-game' does not stay the same a year from now. If there would be no combat-related item to work on in chapter 17 either, and 18 etc. more and more players will join the current 'late-game'. 4. The late-game combat- (and non-combat-) type players will get to work on something, but that doesn't mean the building is only available to them. Based on the discussion before the poll it seemed like people wanted this as a universal building for everyone, to also help the new players who don't even have Phoenixes and Bears.
 

ajqtrz

Well-Known Member
The basic fighting has 5 slots for 5 squads. The opponents often have up to 8 slots. How about a building with 5 slots, each slot adding 5%-10% (or some special effect) to the same slot in the fighting? The Commanders Barracks could be about 4x4 and you could either have it OR the Fire Phoenix. To get it you would need to craft it OR a "conversion" item allowing you to convert your Fire Phoenix). You would have to feed the Commanders Barracks to use it -- 24hrs duration, I would think -- but you would also have to upgrade it from 1 to 5 to enable each slot (the converted Fire Phoenix could either be set to the upgrade level of the Fire Phoenix/2 or you could start with just 1 slot enabled).

The BIG disadvantage is that would take a lot of development work.

The list of advantages are:
The same potential effect as the fully evolved Fire Phoenix which you can only replace with or convert the Fire Phoenix via a "conversion" crafting item.
The five slots allow you to add something to the corresponding unit slot in fighting making specific squads more powerful without effecting the entire army.
The upgrades could be applied to it and allow those who did not get enough artifacts to upgrade their Fire Phoenix to have a way to get to that level.
The overall benefit in fighting would be potentially greater than a fully evolved Fire Phoenix for those who need it.

I know this is a wild and pretty unlikely idea, but I also think the devs need to figure out a way for players to "evolve" buildings that we get but were unable to get artifacts for in any reasonable manner. Converting them to "upgrade" buildings would really help player who didn't get all the evolving done.

Just an idea.

AJ
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure, but it feels like you're suggesting that things happening in the comments/discussion are relevant to the vote. That is specifically not the case. He are supposed to vote only on what appear in the OP when the Poll is attached to it.
1. Did you see the logistics commander suggestion that reduces cater costs?
I still don't. the word cater does not seem to appear in the idea anywhere, nor any line I interpret as being catering-related.
2. If commanders are added, the fights will also be adjusted for the fact. This is not to make fights easier, but to add flavor to them.
I don't see anything in the post about the fights being adjusted. If they are, why would anyone ever use up real-estate to make fighting more complex without an adavantage?
3. The 'late-game' does not stay the same a year from now.
It certainly does. Late-game does not mean last chapter. Once the assorted military boost AWs (Victory Springs, Temple of Toads, Simia Sapiens) are available, and players have lots of time and extra KP to level them, they never go away and every single combat is easier than it was in the earlier chapters. about half of all wonders do one of three things (make troops better, make more troops faster, or make it easier to get tournament rounds done.)
4. The late-game combat- (and non-combat-) type players will get to work on something, but that doesn't mean the building is only available to them.
The diea specifically says it is something for post Elvenar chapter palyers to work on because their troops are al three star.
to also help the new players who don't even have Phoenixes and Bears.
Is it making combat easier, or not? Earlier you implied it isn't supposed to make it esier, only more complex, by the opposition being adjusted if a commander is sent in. Can you please clarify, because right now, ythe OP we are voting on and the idea you are describing not seem to be the same thing.
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
I know this is a wild and pretty unlikely idea, but I also think the devs need to figure out a way for players to "evolve" buildings that we get but were unable to get artifacts for in any reasonable manner. Converting them to "upgrade" buildings would really help player who didn't get all the evolving done.
We're supposed to be voting on the OP, which the poster is no longer permitted to edit without invalidating the vote. Proposing alternatives at this point muddies the water, unless you are hoping they will abandon their idea when they already have yes votes to get it presented. What are you hoping to accomplish with that?
 

ajqtrz

Well-Known Member
We're supposed to be voting on the OP, which the poster is no longer permitted to edit without invalidating the vote. Proposing alternatives at this point muddies the water, unless you are hoping they will abandon their idea when they already have yes votes to get it presented. What are you hoping to accomplish with that?
Sorry. I didn't realize asking for a vote was supposed to shut down conversation. Parliamentary rules are in effect I guess. Now all I have to do is pull out my copy of Roberts Rules of Order and review exactly how and when a new point can be made in these now very formal discussions. You should have started your correction with a "chairman, point of order!" of course. LOL

AJ
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
Sorry. I didn't realize asking for a vote was supposed to shut down conversation. Parliamentary rules are in effect I guess. Now all I have to do is pull out my copy of Roberts Rules of Order and review exactly how and when a new point can be made in these now very formal discussions. You should have started your correction with a "chairman, point of order!" of course. LOL

AJ
Conversation and proposing alternatives in the middle of a vote are different. Only one of them is confusing to people who come to vote.:

  • During the poll, the discussion can still continue if anyone feels they have something valuable to add.
  • However: No alterations can be made any more to the idea as it's stated in the opening post, so please refrain from coming up with new ideas at this stage.
Bolding is mine
 
Also @samidodamage
I still don't. the word cater does not seem to appear in the idea anywhere, nor any line I interpret as being catering-related.
It's in negative effects #2.
I don't see anything in the post about the fights being adjusted. If they are, why would anyone ever use up real-estate to make fighting more complex without an adavantage?
I meant that the fights will not get easier disproportionally for different players. And, if the concern is about all spire/tourney/encounters getting too easy for everyone, then obviously the devs can adjust them. The reason you use up real-estate is not to lose out on a new advantage you could gain compared to others who do. That is the case for all buildings in the game and any other ever-evolving games.
It certainly does. Late-game does not mean last chapter. Once the assorted military boost AWs (Victory Springs, Temple of Toads, Simia Sapiens) are available, and players have lots of time and extra KP to level them, they never go away and every single combat is easier than it was in the earlier chapters. about half of all wonders do one of three things (make troops better, make more troops faster, or make it easier to get tournament rounds done.)
The diea specifically says it is something for post Elvenar chapter palyers to work on because their troops are al three star.
I guess my edits to the first original post did not make this change clear. This is meant to be a universal building, but obviously any research or AW based improvements only become available after Embassies chapter, since those are already out. And that does not change the fact that it gives post-elvenar players of now and the future something to work on after no new unit upgrades exist.
Is it making combat easier, or not? Earlier you implied it isn't supposed to make it esier, only more complex, by the opposition being adjusted if a commander is sent in. Can you please clarify, because right now, ythe OP we are voting on and the idea you are describing not seem to be the same thing.
I think the previous points already answer this. Please let me know if you need more clarifications.
 
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Ashrem

Well-Known Member
It's in negative effects #2.
Okay, putting a possible advantage for some people within the list of disadvantages did, in fact, confuse me.

I meant that the fights will not get easier disproportionally for different players. And, if the concern is about all spire/tourney/encounters getting too easy for everyone, then obviously the devs can adjust them. The reason you use up real-estate is not to lose out on a new advantage you could gain compared to others who do. That is the case for all buildings in the game and any other ever-evolving games.
Suggesting the devs add an advantage and counter it is a no go from my perspective. They can't counter it for just the people who have the building, or there's no point having the building, and if they adjust it for everyone, then it's unfair to anyone who doesn't want the building or can't afford the space. I just don't think that's a reasonable answer.
I guess my edits to the first original post did not make this change clear.
Correct.

This is meant to be a universal building, but obviously any research or AW based improvements only become available after Embassies chapter, since those are already out. And that does not change the fact that it gives post-elvenar players of now and the future something to work on after no new unit upgrades exist.
That is not at all how the post reads, and I have to vote with the idea as posted.

I think the previous points already answer this. Please let me know if you need more clarifications.
I don't think that's necessary. I can't get a clear picture of the idea from the OP, and what I do understand I don't support, so I'm content with my vote. But thanks for all the effort.
 

samidodamage

Well-Known Member
@TheGiftedKes
My first vote 'for' the idea was based on my understanding and much of that came from discussion posts, not on what is currently in the formal suggestion. I was hesitant to vote for the idea even with the discussion points because there are so many other areas where I think dev time would be better spent. As I continued to follow the discussion and read back over the formal suggestion in the original post, I liked my 'for' vote less yesterday. Came back today and looked over everything again. It then occurred to me that there is entirely too much in the formal suggestion that needs an explanation (thus all the continued discussion posts) for me to agree it is ready to send to the devs. So I changed my vote.
If this idea does not pass muster to forward to the devs for this poll, there is no reason that it could not be brought up again in the future and I might change my mind again :)
 
@TheGiftedKes
My first vote 'for' the idea was based on my understanding and much of that came from discussion posts, not on what is currently in the formal suggestion. I was hesitant to vote for the idea even with the discussion points because there are so many other areas where I think dev time would be better spent. As I continued to follow the discussion and read back over the formal suggestion in the original post, I liked my 'for' vote less yesterday. Came back today and looked over everything again. It then occurred to me that there is entirely too much in the formal suggestion that needs an explanation (thus all the continued discussion posts) for me to agree it is ready to send to the devs. So I changed my vote.
If this idea does not pass muster to forward to the devs for this poll, there is no reason that it could not be brought up again in the future and I might change my mind again :)
Thanks for the support, kind of lol. Yes, I wish people with strong opinions would make them known sooner. I specifically asked for opinions of people who don't like the idea and ways to improve it before the poll. Since all comments seemed only positive I asked for the poll :) Will see if I have the energy to go through the 3-months process again. I also didn't know the scale of voting would be in the order of 20-30 total, it's a very small community!
 

samidodamage

Well-Known Member
it's a very small community!
Yes, it is. I can't remember the exact percentage of players, but pretty sure it was 90%+ who never visit the forums. That was before the launch of the mobile app so not sure what impact on forum participation that had.
The forums are primarily player-driven with volunteer mods and being able to even get an idea/suggestion in front of the devs has been around less than 4 months now. It was launched on March 3, 2020.
While it may feel like this took forever, I'm pretty sure it's not a 3-month process. This thread was started on May 17th and today is June 21st ;)
 

ajqtrz

Well-Known Member
"However: No alterations can be made any more to the idea as it's stated in the opening post, so please refrain from coming up with new ideas at this stage. "

I apologize that I did not remember this rule. I'll just refrain from continued discussion of a topic once a poll is called for in the future. Thanks for the correction. I guess things are a lot more formal here. LOL.

I voted against it because while the central idea is good, I think, the details could be improved. That's the problem with up and down voting, btw. It's much easier to vote something down because you find aspects of it you don't like than to vote for it as if you agree with it completely.

AJ
 

AtaguS

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the support, kind of lol. Yes, I wish people with strong opinions would make them known sooner. I specifically asked for opinions of people who don't like the idea and ways to improve it before the poll.
I'm not sure why, since I check into the forum every day...but I did not even see this suggestion or any discussion of it until the other day when it showed up red for voting...too bad as I'd have liked to give an opinion. Like Ashrem, I voted based on my reading of the proposal at the top of the thread only.

I know it can be a frustrating process but, A) it looks like you have more FOR votes than against at the moment and, B) Sometimes it takes a few tries - don't give up! I'm pretty sure every player here who has voted against it, including myself, would be more than happy to pitch in ideas and perspectives any time you are willing to give it a try. Whatever the outcome here (and again, it looks mostly in you favor) my hats off to you for putting in the effort to get it this far. I hope you don't stop here.
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
If I had strong opinions, I'd have probably got into it earlier, though I'm not quite as active as I was in the past. I don't have strong opinions, I just don't support the idea for the listed reasons. I won't be offended if it passes.

I've created 63 threads in Ideas and suggestions, and have had six of them passed on. (Superficially, eight, if you count the two where past mods put them in "implemented" even though they didn't really understand the idea so they weren't actually implemented) So less than one in 10 were passed on, and I don't think any of them have been implemented similar to as suggested. I'm still hopeful about the one for moving the "collect" tab on the trader in post-sentient chapters, which seems like it could be wiped out in no more than an hour of coding.

Whether it's a sign they aren't responsive, or that they are generally doing a good job, there aren't, relatively speaking, a lot of suggestions that get passed on
 

Risen Malchiah

Well-Known Member
Yes, if the vote fails, don't give up on this idea. Refine the proposal (obviously not while voting) and revisit it later. I would love something like this, or any idea really that might add some complexity to fights other than rock/paper/scissors.

I voted against - pls send hate mail to my PM. It is an extremely interesting idea but too complicated for the level of development effort Elvenar can fund. I am involved in the endless beta test of a monster WWII game that never stops adding extremely complex features all to diminishing returns. There is too much low hanging fruit to implement this extremely expensive idea. (I am a retired dev).
I respect your insight as a developer, though I bet it was occasionally useful for you to gather ideas (even ones you ultimately reject) and use them for inspiration. The devs certainly have possible AWs, chapters, events & pet abilities in mind for the future and an idea from here could spark something, even if they go in a completely different direction.
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
use them for inspiration
Some days I think that, but I can say as a writer that I will die with at least 20 times as many ideas in my ideas folder as I have finished stories. Edison was not joking when he wrote "Genius is one percent inspiration, ninety nine percent perspiration."