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    Your Elvenar Team

Sentient Goods are unbalanced

Palavyn

Well-Known Member
Platinum is in high demand, Gum seems to be a distant second, while Moonstone is the most abundant.
Arcane Ink is in high demand, Obsidian seems to be a distant second, while Velvet is the most abundant.
Silly Soap is in high demand, Alloy Shrooms seem to be a distant second, while Cosmic Bismuth is the most abundant.

It's been this way since I've gotten into sentient goods. Now, people are going to say they work around it just fine. If you are boosted in Moonstone, you post a trade for platinum at a 10% loss and eventually it gets taken. After all, 10% loss is no big deal. However, unless I'm missing something, this is completely unfair. This is because someone boosted in a high demand good can simply accept 3-star trades. They don't have to spend the time tediously posting trades, there's no waiting AND they get an advantageous exchange rate. There are also players who post ridiculous 1-star trades that desperate players will take. This would be acceptable if everyone were boosted in at least one high demand sentient good.

But as things stand, how is this fair? Unless I'm missing something, some players have a significant advantage over others.

There are a number of ways this can be fixed. For example, the Spire catering can be adjusted to require the more abundant sentient goods most of the time. Moonstone library production can also be rotated each month. For example, next month instead of Moonstone and Cosmic Crapsmuth, it produces Platinum and Silly Soap. Or Moonstone library production could be each player's boost +1.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Platinum is in high demand, Gum seems to be a distant second, while Moonstone is the most abundant.
Arcane Ink is in high demand, Obsidian seems to be a distant second, while Velvet is the most abundant.
Silly Soap is in high demand, Alloy Shrooms seem to be a distant second, while Cosmic Bismuth is the most abundant.
This is situational, and they can't balance it for just one server, so it's not easy to balance. Felyndral has Gum much more abundant than Moonstone, so how do they adjust it while also adjusting your world's issues?
 

CrazyWizard

Oh Wise One
This idea/suggestion addresses that and was forwarded to the devs on July 30th:
Adjust Spire Set goods output

This set is a problem for scrolls but I do not believe it has any or just a little vinfluence on sentient goods, the biggest issues is because it's a worldwide commodity a small imbalance in players bonus goods could lead to a pretty big issue.

This is also the reason why each server had a diffent issue, unlike scolls it's not something universal on all servers.
So these are 2 different topics.
 

Palavyn

Well-Known Member
This is situational, and they can't balance it for just one server, so it's not easy to balance. Felyndral has Gum much more abundant than Moonstone, so how do they adjust it while also adjusting your world's issues?

The good required in the Spire could depend on what is OFFERED in your server's 3-star and 2-star trades. For example, let's say there are 8,000K total Moonstone offered in fair trades and 2,000K total Gum offered. So then if the Spire decides to require an S1 good, it would be Moonstone with 80% probability and Gum with 20% probability. If Gum is offered more than Moonstone on a different server, then the probabilities on that server reflect this difference.

These probabilities for the entire Spire week on each server could be determined at a specified time BEFORE the Spire starts.
 

Gath Of Baal

Well-Known Member
Platinum is in high demand, Gum seems to be a distant second, while Moonstone is the most abundant.
Arcane Ink is in high demand, Obsidian seems to be a distant second, while Velvet is the most abundant.
Silly Soap is in high demand, Alloy Shrooms seem to be a distant second, while Cosmic Bismuth is the most abundant.

Khelonaar? Sounds like it.


But as things stand, how is this fair? Unless I'm missing something, some players have a significant advantage over others.


Yes but what you are not taking into account is that the boosts that get you those top 3 sentient goods boosts are Marble, Crystal and Gems. Before I reached the point that I could start producing my sentient goods of Platinum, Arcane Ink and Silly Soap, the only way I could ever get anyone to accept my Marble, Crystal and Gems trades was by posting them at a loss (1100 for 1000), while players with other tier 1,2 and 3 boosts got to feast on the trader. Now its my turn to feast on the trader :p Elvenar Karma at work, gotta love it.

But only if you are talking about Khelonaar


Edit: You would think since I had so much trouble trading my Marble, Crystal and Gems earlier on that would mean and over abundance of Platinum, Arcane Ink and Silly Soap, but if I had to guess at the reasons why the most abundant lower tier goods boosts are now in the highest sentient goods demand now on Khelonaar, would be that a lot of the rocks boosted players either quit Khelonaar and started playing a different world in order to get better boosts, due to not being able to ever get their trades accepted or simply quit the game or their cities are simply not developed enough to have started producing sentient goods yet.. just a guess
 
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T6583

Well-Known Member
I play in the K world and yes it’s annoying that no one ever seems to want my moonstone, obsidian, or bismuth but honestly I just post offering an incentive and my trades always go quickly. I think the moonstone library is affecting it a bit but how much I have no idea. And honestly it is different in different worlds. My F world city is boosted in platinum, ink, and soap and again I usually do the same thing, post trades to get what I want quickly by offering an incentive. The balance feels off because of where different players are in the game. I don’t think there is an easy fix to this and the trader market can change at any time. There was a time when I couldn’t give away my extra elixir and times have changed now for me. I expect as players keep advancing that the trader will balance out. Also I offer the incentive because I want my trades to move quickly and it’s a way of saying thank you. Also finding a good FS that’s balanced in goods can help with your trading as well.
 

Palavyn

Well-Known Member
Khelonaar? Sounds like it.

Nope. I'm on Ceravyn. I suspect every single server has a shortage of Platinum, Ink, and Soap.

With T1 goods, you can simply switch to a Fellowship that needs what you are boosted in. There is no such option with sentient goods. In fact, I have a lower tier character on another server that is boosted in Marble, Crystal, and Gems. I've NEVER had any significant problem trading those (with fair trades) for what I need. And that even though my FS has an overabundance of marble producers.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
I suspect every single server has a shortage of Platinum, Ink, and Soap.

No, I am on Arendyll and there is plenty of platinum and soap there. Every server has it's own issues. When enough people with the same boosts quit playing, then a server will become unbalanced.
 

Palavyn

Well-Known Member
No, I am on Arendyll and there is plenty of platinum and soap there. Every server has it's own issues. When enough people with the same boosts quit playing, then a server will become unbalanced.
Dude, my alt is on Arendyll. I don't know about soap. But Platinum is the highest demand S1 there. I just checked trades, and there are ZERO fair trades offering platinum. On the other hand, there are more than 4 pages of 3-star trades demanding platinum.
 

Palavyn

Well-Known Member
But anyways, the idea is to base the Spire demands on what is being OFFERED in the trader on your server. So no matter what unbalance is on your server, the Spire demands help remediate it.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
Dude, my alt is on Arendyll. I don't know about soap. But Platinum is the highest demand S1 there. I just checked trades, and there are ZERO fair trades offering platinum. On the other hand, there are more than 4 pages of 3-star trades demanding platinum.
Really? I am boosted in platinum and even trades sit forever.
 

T6583

Well-Known Member
@Palavyn I’m not sure that it’s really needed. Not to mention that seems like it could get into some pretty complicated coding there.
 

StarLoad

Well-Known Member
Dude, my alt is on Arendyll. I don't know about soap. But Platinum is the highest demand S1 there. I just checked trades, and there are ZERO fair trades offering platinum. On the other hand, there are more than 4 pages of 3-star trades demanding platinum.
There is a very good reason you don't see Platinum offered on Arendyll. Look at the player offering the unfair trades and you have your answer. Post up even a 1:1 trade and certain players will snatch them and turn them around at an 18% surcharge. So why post and give away goods to a parasite?
 

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
So these are 2 different topics.
Since 5 goods types are listed in the original post, I saw it as encompassing regular goods and sentient goods. I think it started out being a discussion about only scrolls, but ended up including all of them. Here's the quote from that post:
penalizes players boosted in those goods (scrolls, magic dust, moonstone, tree gum, and cosmic bismuth) who experience lowered demand for their trades.
That said, I agree that set has less impact on the imbalance of Sentient goods. You explained that well here:
This is also the reason why each server had a diffent issue, unlike scolls it's not something universal on all servers.
I also think the sentient imbalance changes even on the same server, like when a new chapter is released. Even if that idea were implemented, I don't think it would have much effect on sentient imbalances in the trader.
I think it's too complicated to have the Spire check with the trader for available sentient trades to set diplomacy requirements each week. It would be too easy to abuse in my mind as well. Even if the goods were set before each Spire launch, players would quickly learn to load up the trader with the goods they prefer as soon as one Spire ends. Once the new Spire starts, they can cancel any trades that are left. With so many players posting 3star trades, they'd likely still have a bunch of their 2star ones to cancel, especially if they can post in really large amounts that many others can't take.
 

Palavyn

Well-Known Member
It would be too easy to abuse in my mind as well.
Why would someone want to make it so the Spire demands a good that's in high demand? Besides, this would backfire because someone else who also knows when this happens and who also has tons of sentient goods would grab their trades.

Another option would be for the Spire to look at each individual player's sentient goods and just require whichever one is most abundant. For example, let's say that the Spire wants to require an S2 good and a player has 50K Obsidian, 10K Ink, and 40K Velvet. So then it will just ask for the Obsidian.
 

Palavyn

Well-Known Member
@Palavyn I’m not sure that it’s really needed. Not to mention that seems like it could get into some pretty complicated coding there.
I guess you're right. Elvenar is an individual game, so I shouldn't care if someone else has an advantage. And the programmers probably wouldn't be able to do it anyways.
 

T6583

Well-Known Member
I guess you're right. Elvenar is an individual game, so I shouldn't care if someone else has an advantage. And the programmers probably wouldn't be able to do it anyways.
But just because you think certain players have an advantage now that could easily change and at some point you might have the boosted goods that everyone wants.
 
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