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    Your Elvenar Team

Set building

DeletedUser3434

Guest
Frozen Orc Vortex
This building is part of a set. Connect it to the Main Hall and place your set buildings adjacent to it. All Set Buildings will have a street connection then. Unique set buildings which are placed next to each other will increase the set bonus for each building.......................................For those who don't get (or block) the Elvenar newsletter, it had a nice preview about when to expect certain daily buildings:
The frozen Orc Vortex

The cornerstone of your set is the Orc Vortex. Connect this Winter set building with streets to produce Orcs and for it to serve as an connecting element for the set buildings. Any other set building can be used as a connecting element as well - watch out for it in early January!

The Winter Fountain

The Winter Fountain is the smallest of the set buildings with an area space of 2x3 squares. It produces valuable Mana for your city. Keep your eyes open on December 22 to win the Winter Fountain as a Daily Exclusive!
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Frozen Orc Vortex
This building is part of a set. Connect it to the Main Hall and place your set buildings adjacent to it. All Set Buildings will have a street connection then. Unique set buildings which are placed next to each other will increase the set bonus for each building.......................................For those who don't get (or block) the Elvenar newsletter, it had a nice preview about when to expect certain daily buildings:
This 100% confirmation that the buildings were advertised to work as I always expected, @Xelenia and @Aider. Please bring this to the developers' attention when you have time. And please ensure the word exploit is never used again in relation to this.
 

DeletedUser5800

Guest
I would like to refer you to rule number 6 of the game rules:

6. Bugs
Where were you when we had this conversation? How could anyone know which way the bug was going if no one ever bothered to tell us when we asked? o_O

https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/set-buildings.14485/
What I find most interesting is the need for only one road connection and I'm curious if that works no matter how many buildings of any type get put in a 'set'... i.e if a line of Frozen Fountains would still only need one road connection as opposed to having to run a road the full length like other mana buildings?

I never heard the answer on if same types would count each other and not need a road so I guess you found out the answer. Same types won't link so don't 'set' and it is recognizing a set of two and second set of one. My guess. If that is the case it screws up my plan to have a line of fountains without needing road. :eek:

Edit: It should only require one road connection, you may have found a bug.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

WolfSinger

Well-Known Member
I checked my sets this morning and I'm getting the same bonuses I was previously. Yes, I have at least one duplicate in each set. Where I set up my sets there are multiple points of connection with roads. None of the duplicates connect to each other.

I understand the frustration over the sudden no warning 'change' to those who set up buildings under the previous rules that allowed duplicates to be chained together for the bonuses on those buildings. However, if you didn't go that route and set up the set buildings as a group set of all the buildings even if there is a duplicate or two - you should still be getting the advertised benefits.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
I checked my sets this morning and I'm getting the same bonuses I was previously. Yes, I have at least one duplicate in each set. Where I set up my sets there are multiple points of connection with roads. None of the duplicates connect to each other.
At issue is that the most recent "clarification" seems to indicate that this is still not as intended, and that you are, in fact "exploiting" a bug, as am I, since I have 3 wells all touching one ice troll. The existing clarification appears to indicate that having more than one of any building in a set is not intended to work.
 

ekarat

Well-Known Member
At issue is that the most recent "clarification" seems to indicate that this is still not as intended, and that you are, in fact "exploiting" a bug, as am I, since I have 3 wells all touching one ice troll. The existing clarification appears to indicate that having more than one of any building in a set is not intended to work.

That's my issue. The post does imply something more strict than was actually done. I'm still not clear what the intention is.

My interpretation is that 2nd copies would be counted as if in a set with only other 2nd copies, so 2/2/1/1 would be a set of 4 and a set of 2. However, that's just my interpretation and totally not clear.
 

DeletedUser5800

Guest
The existing clarification appears to indicate that having more than one of any building in a set is not intended to work.
If that is indeed the case Sets become even more worthless than they already are. I get the not chaining one building together being that I assumed wrongly/rightly back then that the link was the road connection but if only one of each can link it limits the possibilities in a way I would consider making them completely pointless. It should at least function like the S&D college with any set piece acting as the 'campus' to any others... but they will probably update it in the future to break even this metric at which point I will never be interested in a set again on any account of any size. They once again are taking the best part of something already kind of stupid and changing it to completely stupid. :rolleyes:
 

DeletedUser9601

Guest
They once again are taking the best part of something already kind of stupid and changing it to completely stupid. :rolleyes:
I think the devil is really going to be in the details. If the set buildings fit together nicely like a puzzle, this change won't be too problematic. But if the change is going to result in a lot of dead space, or future sets have too many "small" buildings, it completely negates the benefit of "no roads."

For the Winter Event, you had 2 massive, relatively square unique buildings (5x4, 4x3) that were easy to get. That makes it easy to always have your "chain" buildings touch something unique. Even after the change, I still have 10 Fountains touching my Ice Mountain Troll.

But with the Phoenix buildings, you have 2 rectangles (5x3, 3x5). This makes it much harder to fit a lot of the same buildings around the unique building (even harder when one of those large buildings was the hard-to-get 3rd grand prize). So if you want to wrap Phoenix Pavillions to make a "super workshop," you can fit 8 around the Phoenix Workshop, but you're looking at probably 4+ squares of dead space.

You can work around that dead space sometimes, if you get kind of lucky with your city layout, or you drop in crummy small culture buildings. But its not as satisfying, and it knocks down the feeling that these set buildings are doing a lot on a per-sq basis.
 

Deborah M

Oh Wise One
I just tried this out with my Phoenix set. I have 2 lighthouses and they are the only duplication placed. 1 only touches the set and the other does touch road. I removed the road from the second lighthouse and nothing happens. So it appears to me that they work the same as always unless multiple of the same one are connected to each other (in this example my lighthouses do not touch). On the other hand, in the winter set I had 3 ice fountains in a row before I sold them. It sounds to me like now I would have had to run a road for those. I'm hoping I'm understanding this correctly so I don't mess up the next one.

And now it looks like @Tedious is saying they can touch each other?
 

DeletedUser9601

Guest
On the other hand, in the winter set I had 3 ice fountains in a row before I sold them. It sounds to me like now I would have had to run a road for those. I'm hoping I'm understanding this correctly so I don't mess up the next one.
I think you have it right. My key takeaway is: set buildings need to touch another kind of set building from the same set to get the road connection benefit.
 

Deborah M

Oh Wise One
I think you have it right. My key takeaway is: set buildings need to touch another kind of set building from the same set to get the road connection benefit.

OK now I get it. I did have 3 ice fountains together not touching another set building when I was selling off the winter set, Now that would not work without road touching all 3.
 

Xelenia

Ex-Team Member
Where were you when we had this conversation? How could anyone know which way the bug was going if no one ever bothered to tell us when we asked? o_O

I would think by now you have come to realize, if I am tagged for clarity and I have the answer, I will happily clarify and if I do not, I will once again happily tell you I do not. My task here is not just to moderate the threads and slap you on the wrist when you do bad things, but to support you as well to the best of my ability within a reasonable stretch. Now does that mean I will come running with answers for every little thing? No. And if something is not brought to my attention, I will not offer my chimes as I do not sit here and read every single thread and every single post lol.

I forgot to mention, individuals may never be satisfied with my answers. Does that make my answers wrong? Not necessarily, but I cannot help anyone change their view if it does not serve their agenda.
 

Xelenia

Ex-Team Member
This 100% confirmation that the buildings were advertised to work as I always expected, @Xelenia and @Aider. Please bring this to the developers' attention when you have time. And please ensure the word exploit is never used again in relation to this.

Please refer to the Announcement made earlier yesterday, there is an updated post. Unfortunately, I cannot provide any more clarity beyond what is in that post. The issues were brought to my attention and I investigated as I said I will, and here are the result.

https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/set-building-update.15999/#post-101247

Happy Gaming!
Xelenia
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
I'm not laying any blame on you, @Xelenia, but the words in the referenced post still do not match the reality some of us are experiencing. If the words in that post are correct, then the final state will be a change to the advertised function as sent out in the newsletter in December, not correction of a bug. Also, we are still seeing that multiples of one building can be active, as long as they are not in a chain, but rather each touching a different building design, without each having a road connection. That does not match Ælfwine's post, but is somewhere between the newsletter description and Ælfwine's post.

Currently, the below functions as a set, with all 9 Ice fountains working, and getting a bonus from the Troll, even though only two of them touch the road. Meanwhile, the Troll only gets a bonus from one of the ice fountains.

upload_2018-4-20_9-29-6.png

We'd appreciate some certainty that we are not (above) currently exploiting an identified or unidentified bug that will be corrected in the future.
 

DeletedUser5800

Guest
I do not sit here and read every single thread and every single post lol.
:eek::eek::eek:

I actually messaged support back then and they gave a half deluded run around answer as per usual... my point simply was that if terms like 'exploit' are going to get thrown around it starts sounding like people did something on purpose when several of us actually went to some lengths to gain clarity on this way back then and there was just no clarity to be had. I'm not even sure most of the time the Dev's know how they intend things to work, I'm fairly certain sometimes they just throw code in and see what happens then add intent on the fly. :p

I know it's as difficult or worse for you as it is for us but we did try to figure it out.

Another perfect example is when the time on double days went an hour into the next daily in the past event... did people that got prizes in the hour exploit the game? Should we have instead made sure not to spend essence in that hour? How could most people know that?

If I buy a car that goes forward and backwards but is only supposed to go forward but I don't know that and the dealer never says that, they can't then see me going in reverse 3 months later and say I exploited an unintended function like I'm in the wrong. They could say "We apologize for the lack of clarity on intended function and our ability to enact such function but we have now corrected the function. (i.e. they were in the wrong and have corrected themselves)
 

Pheryll

Set Designer
:eek::eek::eek:

I actually messaged support back then and they gave a half deluded run around answer as per usual... my point simply was that if terms like 'exploit' are going to get thrown around it starts sounding like people did something on purpose when several of us actually went to some lengths to gain clarity on this way back then and there was just no clarity to be had. I'm not even sure most of the time the Dev's know how they intend things to work, I'm fairly certain sometimes they just throw code in and see what happens then add intent on the fly. :p

I think that the whole thing is a miscommunication between the Elvenar staff (especially the coders) and Inno. Inno's intent with set buildings can be seen in FoE. Elvenar had to code this on their own and came up with a differing implementation. Now, it appears the Elvenar staff are passing down Inno's statement to the programmers and oddities are presenting themselves because the implementations are fundamentally different, and bringing Elvenar in line with FoE would require a recoding of the whole set system.
 

DeletedUser5800

Guest
bringing Elvenar in line with FoE would require a recoding of the whole set system.
Right, and if I played FoE that might make sense... but however it ended up where it was, where it is and ends up where it is going it isn't on players, like we need rules quoted at us to remind us how we are exploiting things because they can't get on the same page and/or code what they mean or at least say 'oops we didn't mean to do that so we changed it.'

Note: I didn't even have anything that has so far been affected but I know lot's of people do and were very vocal about their plan to get them in every event on multiple forums and never once did anyone "official" say, 'That might not be how they should or will continue to work.'
 

Mykan

Oh Wise One
Wow some people are hung up on the word exploit, it was a quote from the rules, don't blow it out of context. The rules and its wording are there for a reason, pretty much for when a person is "cheating", for cases like this it is simply fix the problem and move on.

Considering the fact that the CM had to seek clarification I think it is pretty clear support and everyone else was not 100% clear on how these were suppose to work. Even now there is confusion, once it is sorted and clear we will move on.

The concerns I see based on the explanation of how it is meant to work are:
  • Not every building in a set can gain the full bonus without duplicates, as mentioned by @Ashrem
  • Lots of people have duplicates, for whatever reason, and spent their event currency for a particular strategy that only know are they learning was for naught. Having being informed appropriately in the first place different prizes would have been selected by many players.
 

DeletedUser5800

Guest
Wow some people are hung up on the word exploit, it was a quote from the rules, don't blow it out of context. The rules and its wording are there for a reason, pretty much for when a person is "cheating", for cases like this it is simply fix the problem and move on.
Possibly, but when the rules come out I take that to mean what you just said... that there is a player fault that needs corrected with the back-up of the rules which in this case there is definitely not as players went to some lengths, if not great ones, to make sure it was working as intended to begin with and never had any indication they weren't.

Maybe I am splitting hairs but when my children are breaking the rules I might say "Hey, remember the rules!" but it's peculiar if I do the same while no fault has occurred.

On that note I will once again acknowledge that I realize there is also no fault of anyone here ;) ;) but if there is any fault at all it is somewhere way further up than any of us and has nothing to do with any of us or the rules except perhaps the one where they can do whatever they want which is fine, but that should be the message, we changed it because we wanted to, not because of those sneaky exploiters doing their exploiting. :p
 

The Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Ugh... if this is how they're going to pursue set buildings in Elvenar, just please remove this whole clusterfethed mess.
It's really just a bad joke vs. what we've come to expect from FoE's initial forays w/set buildings.

Not only has the Elvenar implementation been gak-awful, as you can't even get the full bonuses for a complete set, but now we can't even double/triple up/etc... for additional specific bonuses?
Oh, and to finish it all off, the 2nd set was damn near impossible to even gain 1 of each piece without spending scads of diamonds. -_-

Next time Inno thinks of porting an FoE feature over, can we please have the 'Level-up' buildings instead?
ie: You get 'Cool Building Lv1' as say the 1st grand prize of the event. Then, you have to win 'Cool Building Upgrade Kit' X number of times to reach it's maximum Lv.'Y' iteration.
At Lv1, it gives a 'meh' bonus. (ie: some Culture + coins)
At Lv2, it gives a bit more Culture + coins + supplies
At Lv3, it gives Culture + more coins + more supplies + T1 goods
At Lv4, it gives more Culture + coins + supplies + more T1 + T2 goods
etc, etc...
It can also gain bonuses as it 'levels' for adding one or more of say;
- population
- Atk-boost
- Unit Health boost
- Mana/Seeds or more T3 depending on chapter
- Orcs or more T3 depending on chapter
- Coin/Supply production % boost
- Produce X specific Merc Camp/Training Ground troop every 24hrs. (number being chapter dependant, and specific unit being themed to the event itself)
- KP's!!

Oh, and please, make at least a few levels of it obtainable without the need to gouge diamonds out of everyone...
 
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