So Long Tech Tree.

[DeletedUser7421]

As I have become increasingly annoyed with this games ploys at extreme money grabbing - Ive decided to change a few things in how I play this game so that I don't end up quitting.

I am 10 expansions short to upgrade houses and expand culture in orcs - never mind how many expansions Im short to have a decent orc's build (about 19 expansions used) and Im no where near close to being able to free up the 35+ expansions needed to do a decent woodelves build - sure if I deleted every factory and workshop I'd be able to free up enough space to build a proper woodelves settlement lol. So.

I am stopping research in the tech tree.

10 expansions would cost 159.99 regular price and 79.99 if you get a 100% bonus LOL - who has that kind of money to spend on 10 expansions and still land up 15-20 expansions short. Not me. All the land I've allocated to upgrade my factories and workshops is being eaten up by one ever increasingly greedy settlement guest race after another.

Therefore, I am no longer going to continue to research the tech tree after I unlock the orcs chapter techs that don't require orc goods to unlock - namely houses and armory's.

**Edit** Getting to the end of the game chapters by deleting about half my workshops and factories, and a quarter of my houses so I can upgrade the few remaining...and then having 35+ expansions of land sitting empty at game end... no thanks. Im sick and tired of deleting things in this game - I started playing this game because I wanted to build a city, not tear one down.

Instead Im going to use the space my city already has, to upgrade my houses to orc lvls and gain the population I need to upgrade my factories and workshops - this will leave me with a nice chunk of land to build AW's on and to do events and adventures with!

I will finally be able to build more than one AW and then upgrade all my AW's with all the kp I WON'T be using to research, plus have room to build the temp buildings for the events and adventures, and all my factories and workshops will be wonderfully upgraded so I'll have enough goods to continue to help my fellowship, and to pour into gaining tournament rewards

So long tech tree!

Now I may actually enjoy this game and be able to move onto building my city again, instead of stressing over lack of land and building and tearing down one guest settlement race after another.

 

[DeletedUser5800]

It's an interesting idea... if you plan to never go further... or sell stuff later anyway to advance. Without spending, or unlocking expansion tech. Scouting will get insanely long and expensive so you will essentially be stuck in time. Was explaining to someone earlier that rather than way overscout they could just wait until they unlocked the next AS and do the same amount they would have anyway just as fast and far cheaper and if they get tech. locked from waiting use it on wonders.

That might work well with your waiting plan, upgrade supply and pop. wonders high enough to delete res. and WS and the cult that goes with them you may get your space freed up naturally without expansions or a heavy production hit and if you hold off scouting also when you get enough space to get to the next AS, with a faster and cheaper scout it may balance back out.

Curiosity: What do you keep your culture at?
Orcs is about the time I abandoned the boost and started running it dead on the line for space, ran through orcs, woodelves, and am half way through S&D without missing the boost at all. I've noticed a lot of people go very slow trying to keep that boost.

You can also run your pop. into neg. to build a larger settlement, speed through without upgrading anything except the res. you have left, rebuild additional res., upgrade everything else, repeat. It's annoying as hell but has gotten me through a couple of tight spots on guest races. and I usually don't have to do much rebuilding as I recover a lot of the pop. from upgrading the res. I keep anyway. Doesn't hurt production at all running a city full of ghost workers.

Just food for thought. It could also be fun to be stuck in time. Really not very dif. than trying to catch the devs and set stuck at the end.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Im short to have a decent orc's build (about 19 expansions used) and Im no where near close to being able to free up the 35+ expansions needed to do a decent woodelves build

I'm very curious about these numbers.

19 expansions for orcs should be more than enough to cruise through the chapter.
That's 475 squares.
1 portal = 24
6 rally points = 210 squares
40 farms = 160 squares
leaving you 80 squares for roads (which is more than you should need)

35 expansions for woodelves? Do you mean just for the settlement buildings? That would be the most woodelf buildings anyone has had, ever.
1 portal
6 fabrications
7 marble/steel grafting sites
5 plank grafting sites
Is all you need, and takes up about 11 expansions.
I've never even heard of anyone running ~60 grafting sites.

Here's my build using about 11 expansions for wood elves:
http://www.elvenarchitect.com/city/planner/70984826ec514e34839469b3443a31e3/

If you never buy premium expansions, and don't clear any more provinces than you need to unlock each chapter you still only need to dedicate about 20% of your city to guest races in order to never get tech locked.

How many of each factory do you have?

 

[DeletedUser3640]

I am 10 expansions short to upgrade houses

Have you ever heard the word "planning"?

and expand culture in orcs

How much culture do you have right now? Are you sitting at exactly 100%?

and Im no where near close to being able to free up the 35+ expansions needed to do a decent woodelves build

What's a decent Woodelves layout (build)? Finished Woodelves long time ago and used just a few expansions for their guest race buildings.... I'm just curious if I've been playing this game wrong all this time.

sure if I deleted every factory and workshop I'd be able to free up enough space to build a proper woodelves settlement lol.

Hah, right. Who needs a simple solution like that? Not us.

Getting to the end of the game chapters by deleting about half my workshops and factories, and a quarter of my houses so I can upgrade the few remaining...and then having 35+ expansions of land sitting empty at game end... no thanks

But...but....but upgraded houses and workshops take more space and by doing so fill up empty space.....soooo, how exactly you''ll have that "empty land"?
And btw, wasn't that the main issue? Not having a space because upgraded buildings take more of it? I'm so confused right now.

Im sick and tired of deleting things in this game - I started playing this game because I wanted to build a city, not tear one down.
Instead Im going to use the space my city already has, to upgrade my houses to orc lvls and gain the population I need to upgrade my factories and workshops - this will leave me with a nice chunk of land to build AW's on and to do events and adventures with!

No. In accordance with your amazing plan, you'll be upgrading stuff and using space just for that. Nothing new, no changes to the city at all. Sorry, but no new AW's, no space for events, nothing. And if you choose to build AW's / event buildings - that means no upgrades. It's a vicious cycle. Can't have all of that - you have to narrow it down. You already cut down progress in the tech tree - I say you need to figure something in addition to that.
________________________

Point is - game (Inno) isn't forcing you to buy expansions:

1) it's completely up to you how fast do you want to go through the chapter (meaning how many guest race buildings you need) - if you're following all the suggestions made here or on the specific websites - stop, think for yourself, don't be sheep. Suggested layouts are designed in a way to prevent "techlock", not to advance in the chapter. Build less of guest race buildings, stay techlocked for a few days - flip off all the "gurus", be a rebel

2) it's completely up to you how many manufactories / workshops / armories you build - don't look at the cities people who bought extra expansions have, don't try to compete with them, cut down the number to manageable amount - and you'll instantly have all the space you need for the rest of the game.

3) it's completely up to you if you're planning your actions, or just mindlessly building everything that is available not thinking about possible consequences - leave some extra space for upcoming chapters, don't fill everything up - rule of the thumb is that everything gets bigger.

Consider this and enjoy the game like the rest of us do. Please don't join the whining crowd.

 

[Risen Malchiah]

The key to advancing is to NOT build or upgrade more than you have to. Too many factories will hinder progress just as much as not enough would. What is the point of any of this if not to advance through the game?

I absolutely despise getting stuck in the tech tree and feel every hour that I'm stuck to be wasted. Sure, I can put KP into AWs, but save for a few specific ones, most of them are not vital to the game and I'd rather build them when I have completed all guest races and can devote all my efforts into tournaments & KP solely to upgrade the AWs.

Near the end of Woodelves now after 10 months playing the game and I still have Dwarven-level steel, Dwarven-level scrolls and Fairy-level dust. Because I like to fight rather than negotiate, that's more than enough goods even when I play every tournament. If you prefer to negotiate, then you can afford to level those factories up more since you won't have the 4 orc-level armories I have.

If I were to level these factories or armories up higher, I would then need to build more residences and that WOULD create problems for advancement. Eliminating some culture and any excess factories or armories would free up a lot of space for most people.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Im sick and tired of deleting things in this game - I started playing this game because I wanted to build a city, not tear one down.

It's just like a real city. Many countries have a limited amount of land that can be effectively built on, so as populations increase, houses are replaced with bigger houses or apartment buildings, factories are replaced with bigger but more efficient ones, office buildings grow into skyrises etc.
How many cities are over 200 years old? How many 150+ year old buildings do those cities have? Sure you keep some buildings or monuments that have historical significance, but everything else gets replaced by something bigger and/or better whenever it makes financial sense to do so.

Space management has always been a core challenge of city design- if you had unlimited space, nothing else would matter except build times. The tech tree would be almost pointless as you could just spam out 100s of buildings to make goods that instantly complete all techs as you unlock them. KP wouldn't be an issue either as your dozens of factories would let you cater every province in the tournament for all of the KP you need. Basically the only thing you'd need to think about is when your builders become available and when your scout gets home.

If a pure city design program(not game as a "game" inherently requires a challenge) is the goal, then that is already available.
MS paint is free software, and all you have to do is take screenshots of buildings that you like and paste them into a collage in MS paint.

 

[SoulsSilhouette]

It's just like a real city. Many countries have a limited amount of land that can be effectively built on, so as populations increase, houses are replaced with bigger houses or apartment buildings, factories are replaced with bigger but more efficient ones, office buildings grow into skyrises etc.
How many cities are over 200 years old? How many 150+ year old buildings do those cities have? Sure you keep some buildings or monuments that have historical significance, but everything else gets replaced by something bigger and/or better whenever it makes financial sense to do so.

Space management has always been a core challenge of city design- if you had unlimited space, nothing else would matter except build times. The tech tree would be almost pointless as you could just spam out 100s of buildings to make goods that instantly complete all techs as you unlock them. KP wouldn't be an issue either as your dozens of factories would let you cater every province in the tournament for all of the KP you need. Basically the only thing you'd need to think about is when your builders become available and when your scout gets home.

If a pure city design program(not game as a "game" inherently requires a challenge) is the goal, then that is already available.
MS paint is free software, and all you have to do is take screenshots of buildings that you like and paste them into a collage in MS paint.

In regards to this. In urban planning you can revamp your current buildings. i am a fan of urban conservation. i don't like for old buildings to be torn down in favor of the latest flavor of the architectural month. That being said, older buildings can be renovated to fit the current age and needs. This is lacking in our game here. Once you get a prize in an event, that's it. It's non negotiable. I believe that this kills the real point of the quests. I like them. I like the events. I was going to love the fellowship adventures, but Inno killed that. I do wonder what their next fail will be, after all death comes in threes.... The CL/BS murders, the FA suicide, and now what's next? gotta wonder what door death will knock on next.

 

[DeletedUser5800]

I do wonder what their next fail will be, after all death comes in threes

If you only count 2 you haven't been keeping good count because they are at least 7 or 8 by now.

 

[SoulsSilhouette]

ah well, like I said, in three's. I was just counting the latest deaths. My neighboring cities seem to die in three's on a regular basis, I am really getting discouraged. My trader is mostly empty of neighborhood offers. I can't even trade for the things my other fellowship members need.

 

[DeletedUser7421]

I like to be active in events, adventures and tournaments, and unfortunately the guest settlements are land gluttons to an extreme and I just don't have room to keep pouring my builders time and resources into building temporary buildings that hog the space I need to upgrade my permanent buildings. I think I'll have a lot more fun again when I get off the rat race of trying to squeeze guest races into a city that was carefully designed to already have the land it needs to grow.

 

[Risen Malchiah]

In that case, if you're intent on stopping the tech tree, I'd suggest making the city you want, then continue scouting the world map and each new expansion you get, don't develop them, but save them for the guest race stuff. With just a few expansions, you'll have enough to continue progressing without sacrificing anything but time. Of course, if you expand on the world map too much, the provinces will become too difficult to fight and you'll be forced to negotiate encounters, but you'll at least have more space.

I'm still mystified how you don't have enough space for the guest races though. You've already done dwarves, why not use that same space for fairies and orcs? And by the time you get there, you'll have a couple more expansions anyway. I ended up having plenty of space for fairies and more than enough for orcs without even sacrificing culture like some recommend.

 

[DeletedUser7421]

Yes that is my plan Malchiah. I am currently using a good chunk of the space I built in for upgrading buildings, for fairies - it's not sufficient for orcs nor woodelves, and placing those settlements rob the space I need to upgrade.

Yes, eventually I'll collect enough land for the orcs settlement, and by then I'll have a couple of ancient wonders upgraded very nicely as well as 40 of my 42 houses (instead of 30 of the 42 houses) and also my factories and workshops upgraded. All while actually having more fun with enough space to enjoy events and fellowship adventures, while not sacrificing the goods I need to enjoy the tournaments

*Edit*
The biggest problem I foresee is having to look at the ugly orcs houses for several months - but I guess for +350 people per house, it's a sacrifice Im willing to make.

*Edit again*
I just see no reason to rush through the chapters to the end, when inno isn't making a new chapter their priority. I especially don't want to rush through and delete a bunch of well upgraded houses, factories and workshops that I have room and population to upgrade, all to squeeze in guest settlements that I don't even want to do anyways lol.

 

[Risen Malchiah]

42 seems like a lot of residences. You had me wondering since I never actually counted mine so I had to go check.

I have 21 residences in my human city and 23 in my elven city, some of which were added during the orc chapter in both cities. Now I understand where your space issues are coming from. I must have relied heavily on pop/culture event buildings from the Winter, Phoenix and Herd events and slowly weeded out older event buildings when they stopped being efficient (although I still have my winter castle from 10 months ago).

I have no idea what is typical for the average player. Is 42 considered a lot or is 21-23 considered really low?

 

[DeletedUser7421]

I suspect if you wanted to upgrade your factories and workshops fully to your current chapter level, that you would probably require more residences, and more land

*Edit*
My plan is to eventually get to the last chapter, with all my factories, workshops and houses fully upgraded - and have some fun while Im doing it

 

[Risen Malchiah]

Probably. That's why I resisted upgrading things unless I truly needed to do so. I knew I would get stuck if I did. But fortunately, even with my lower level factories, I'm swimming in goods and can go into each tournament week with 100k+ of the needed goods in each tier, which I don't even really spend that much since I try to fight as often as possible.

The only things I have upgraded to my current chapter are residences, workshops and the MH. (And now Willows which are vital for woodelves.)

 

[DeletedUser7421]

I deleted a few factories in the city I have that 's in a larger fellowship, and am doing ok with goods. It's a bit different helping a fellowship full of small cities grow though

I kinda don't see the point in finishing a chapter, rushing to the end of the games current chapters, and not upgrading to max along the way. Im not sure why you'd want to progress in research past dwarves, if dwarf buildings are sufficient for you?

 

[Risen Malchiah]

Because each new chapter I progress to means better residences/workshops primarily and better event buildings (which are the same size regardless of chapter but with much better effects). The adv scouts makes expanding significantly cheaper to negotiate and easier to fight, which in turn means more expansions to place in the city. I did have space issues a lot in ch 5-6 but I'm finding woodelves to be practically luxurious with space and thanks to the Willows, I've always got sunny skies even if nobody visits.

 

[SoggyShorts]

@Juliandra Ari
how many factories/armories do you have?

 

[qaccy]

42 seems like a lot of residences. You had me wondering since I never actually counted mine so I had to go check.

I have 21 residences in my human city and 23 in my elven city, some of which were added during the orc chapter in both cities. Now I understand where your space issues are coming from. I must have relied heavily on pop/culture event buildings from the Winter, Phoenix and Herd events and slowly weeded out older event buildings when they stopped being efficient (although I still have my winter castle from 10 months ago).

I have no idea what is typical for the average player. Is 42 considered a lot or is 21-23 considered really low?

I've got 27 level 27 residences in my city (2200 pop each) and 132k total population. I've got 5k spare pop right now, but those numbers show that it's possible to use a lot of pop...it'd be almost 60 residences (counting my Abyss) if I didn't use any pop/culture buildings. I've actually started wondering recently if it's more effective to forego pop/culture buildings entirely, only use residences for population (for the coin production --> more KP), and just focus on having high-value culture and/or mana buildings. What was it that originally made pop/culture buildings so popular, anyway? I know it's a one-time prize, but the tier 1 grand prize from the current event + a level 27 residence is more efficient overall than the Hazeltown is. It seems to me like it might be a more productive effort to focus only on culture from event buildings and just get your population from houses, though I'll admit that there's probably more to it than just looking at culture and population as if they're both equal value.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

I have no idea what is typical for the average player. Is 42 considered a lot or is 21-23 considered really low?

I have 45 max Fairy residences. But Fairy residences are small, so I expect I'll delete at least 10 when I research Orc residences (in about 10 KP). But I like to have max-level factories/manufactories, I'm well past the required provinces, and I like to stockpile goods. So I build those residences to fit my gameplay.

I could easily get by with half that number and still progress at a reasonable pace.

I could also ditch a few if I focused more on recent pop/culture rewards, but I'm trying to get away from that strategy.