So Long Tech Tree.

[DeletedUser9601]

What was it that originally made pop/culture buildings so popular, anyway?

I personally loved them because they didn't need roads. Before guest races, I struggled mightily moving from chapter to chapter, because I didn't have the expansion space to move my buildings around when they changed size. Pop/culture buildings, you could just stick in the corner of the map and not worry.

Now that guest race turnover gives you 40+ spaces to use while you move everything in your city around, I think I'm going to get away from pop/culture. I tell FS members to definitely prioritize them early on, but it seems like they can become a crutch right before mana chapters, and it can really make transitioning to Woodelves difficult.

 

[Mykan]

There are some definite positives to not rushing ahead and putting some KP into wonders. I have done this on a town or 2 and just use small guest race settlements so I slowly chip through the tech tree. The extra focus on wonders allows them to be much more powerful sooner and some wonders are just so much better the earlier you have them and get them levelled, ToS is a good example. As Soggy mentioned depending on the wonder you level up you may find some space efficiency coming into play too which only helps later down the track.

 

[Sir Squirrel]

I just got to orcs on my beta city and the difference in the residences is huge (compared to fairies residences) , I went from 35-45 residences to 25-35, and I have more population now. So you do usually have to delete some residences in orcs because they get bigger, but also give way more population per residence (550 population per residence for fairies to 900 in orcs).

 

[SoggyShorts]

though I'll admit that there's probably more to it than just looking at culture and population as if they're both equal value.

In each chapter you unlock better residences and a better culture building. The pop/square of the residences is much lower than the culture/sq of the new culture building, so pop =/= culture.
From another thread:
For normal buildings in chapter 11:
Grape farm = 210 culture per square
Residence 27 = 146 pop/square
210/146=1.438
1 pop = 1.44 culture
@Pheryll then pointed out that I'd forgotten the negative culture that comes with a residence, making it 1:1.84

 

[qaccy]

In each chapter you unlock better residences and a better culture building. The pop/square of the residences is much lower than the culture/sq of the new culture building, so pop =/= culture.
From another thread:
For normal buildings in chapter 11:
Grape farm = 210 culture per square
Residence 27 = 146 pop/square
210/146=1.438
1 pop = 1.44 culture
@Pheryll then pointed out that I'd forgotten the negative culture that comes with a residence, making it 1:1.84

Fair enough, but the grape farm isn't the right building to use in this instance. Both the Hedge Maze and Pole of Donations offer much higher culture values because they don't 'waste' any of it on producing Mana!

I don't have a good head for numbers though so I'm unsure whether this makes pop/culture buildings better or worse compared to separate pop and culture buildings lol

 

[DeletedUser7421]

@Juliandra Ari
how many factories/armories do you have?

City 1
Has 9 steel, 5 scrolls, 5 dust and 8 workshops. I plan to delete 3 steel, as per my original plan, and go with 7-5-5 and 8, with 40 orc level houses once I get to that point in the research I'll stop.

This is the city that I'll stop research in for a few months to upgrade everything and enjoy the events, adventures and tournaments, while I work on a couple province expansions to go with the city expansions to make decent room for orcs.

City 2
Has 5 steel, 4 scrolls, 4 elixir and 8 workshops. I plan to keep the 5-4-4 and 6-8 workshops.

I've taken some of your suggestions into consideration and made some adjustments to the number of factories here. I haven't decided yet if I'll set up the fairy settlement or take a research break there also.

Cities 3 & 4 are just small and of course I'll continue research in those.

I am having a lot of fun now that I've got some decent population from the hazeltowns and can use the space I would have had to save for orcs, to upgrade my workshops instead! Can't wait to see them!!

**Edit**
City 1 has 3 fully upgraded armories (in preparation for orcs before I decided to stop research).
City 2 has 1 partially upgraded armory and 1 not so upgraded armory.

**Correction to the above... city 1 has 3, not 5, fully upgraded armories.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Fair enough, but the grape farm isn't the right building to use in this instance. Both the Hedge Maze and Pole of Donations offer much higher culture values because they don't 'waste' any of it on producing Mana!

I don't have a good head for numbers though so I'm unsure whether this makes pop/culture buildings better or worse compared to separate pop and culture buildings lol

If you have no need of mana, then the "pole of donations" is the best culture building at 340 for 1x1.
Best pop = 146/sq
Best Cult = 340/sq
340/146=2.32
So once you factor in the negative culture from the residence,
1 pop = 2.8 culture

 

[SoggyShorts]

@Juliandra Ari
There's a great way to figure out how many factories you need for what you are planning to do:
The next time your scout comes home, you can try adding up all 8 encounters to see how many goods you need to negotiate it.
Example:
Your scout takes 24h
Your factories make 30,000 of each tier in 24h
The 8 encounters cost a total of 10,000 of each tier.
That means you are at 300% of needed scouting production.
If you aren't catering a lot in the tournament, and aren't spending any goods on techs, 300% is probably overkill.

As you scout further, the costs will increase, but so will the time needed to scout which should balance it out.

Using my city as an example,
1 dust makes 10,000 per day
1 silk makes 14,000 per day
1 plank makes 12,000 per day

map provinces currently ask for
30K Tier 1
30K Tier 2
24K Tier 3

So with my scout taking 30h my 3/3/3 factories make more than enough to negotiate faster than I can scout with plenty left over for techs and some tournament

 

[DeletedUser7421]

I will check out the negotiation costs, and I do auto fight 4 rounds in 8 provinces and may have to cater a couple encounters sometimes.

I also inherited the archmage position in a dying fellowship and revamped and geared it towards helping small cities grow and become active in tournaments, events, and adventures - so a lot of my goods go towards helping the smaller cities in my fellowship. This is my biggest motivator to try to keep as many factories and upgrade them as far as possible in city 1. City 2 doesn't have those responsibilities so it's not a big deal and I did go ahead and delete a few factories in city 2.

 

[SoggyShorts]

geared it towards helping small cities grow and become active in tournaments, events, and adventures

This is actually a solid strategy, and mixed-level fellowships can do quite well in tournaments using it.
For me to do an extra province in the tournament more than I usually would costs 10k+ of each tier, but feeding a little guy 10k of each can let them clear 4 provinces multiple times.
I don't really need the relics or spells or whatever, so getting the next chest for my whole FS is a much better return on investment.

 

[qaccy]

@SoggyShorts what's a residence itself worth? I'm not really sure how that 'negative culture' factors into the value for one. Does it just get subtracted from the population or how does it work? It's making it difficult to compare normal culture+residence to a pop/culture building because I'm not really sure what the former is 'worth' when combined together. (like I said, not a great head for numbers lol)

 

[SoggyShorts]

@qaccy

Spoiler: long answer

L27 res is 146 pop/sq
Dec pole = 340 culture/sq
340/146=2.32
so 1 pop = 2.32 culture

res costs 883 culture
883/15 =59 culture cost per square
59/2.32=25

146-25=121
L27 res has a "value" of 121 pop per sq.

Short answer:
When comparing the value of buildings:
use 121 per sq for L27 residences, and
for pure culture buildings take the culture and divide by 2.8, then divide it by squares
For combination pop/culture first divide the culture and by 2.8, then add the pop, then divide by squares.
Example:
Magic Maze 8,000 culture 24 squares
8,000/2.8 = 2,857
2,857/24(squares) = 119

Example2:
Hazeltown 2,900 culture + 2,900 pop 16 squares
2900/2.8 = 1,036
1,036+2900 = 3,936
3,936/16(squares) = 246

 

[DeletedUser8382]

As I have become increasingly annoyed with this games ploys at extreme money grabbing - Ive decided to change a few things in how I play this game so that I don't end up quitting.

I am 10 expansions short to upgrade houses and expand culture in orcs - never mind how many expansions Im short to have a decent orc's build (about 19 expansions used) and Im no where near close to being able to free up the 35+ expansions needed to do a decent woodelves build - sure if I deleted every factory and workshop I'd be able to free up enough space to build a proper woodelves settlement lol. So.

I am stopping research in the tech tree.

10 expansions would cost 159.99 regular price and 79.99 if you get a 100% bonus LOL - who has that kind of money to spend on 10 expansions and still land up 15-20 expansions short. Not me. All the land I've allocated to upgrade my factories and workshops is being eaten up by one ever increasingly greedy settlement guest race after another.

Therefore, I am no longer going to continue to research the tech tree after I unlock the orcs chapter techs that don't require orc goods to unlock - namely houses and armory's.

**Edit** Getting to the end of the game chapters by deleting about half my workshops and factories, and a quarter of my houses so I can upgrade the few remaining...and then having 35+ expansions of land sitting empty at game end... no thanks. Im sick and tired of deleting things in this game - I started playing this game because I wanted to build a city, not tear one down.

Instead Im going to use the space my city already has, to upgrade my houses to orc lvls and gain the population I need to upgrade my factories and workshops - this will leave me with a nice chunk of land to build AW's on and to do events and adventures with!

I will finally be able to build more than one AW and then upgrade all my AW's with all the kp I WON'T be using to research, plus have room to build the temp buildings for the events and adventures, and all my factories and workshops will be wonderfully upgraded so I'll have enough goods to continue to help my fellowship, and to pour into gaining tournament rewards

So long tech tree!

Now I may actually enjoy this game and be able to move onto building my city again, instead of stressing over lack of land and building and tearing down one guest settlement race after another.

Start over, but don't research any squad size upgrades. This'll actually make you WAY more powerful than any amount of diamonds and AW levels. You might want to abandon this account and start a new one. After about 6 months of not buying anything on this new account, you'll eventually get a 150% offer for diamonds. If your willing to wait a few weeks without playing, you get a large free diamond offer to come back and "play."

If you do tournaments, save all your free diamonds for upgrading magic academy twice (750 diamonds) as it helps you go through events faster and all those extra power of production and magical manufacturing spells really give you a huge boost.

If you need a good fellowship that both gets 5 chests in tournaments, but is SUPER helpful to new players, PM me, I know of one.

 

[qaccy]

@SoggyShorts
Alright, so! Looking at what you said, would this be something close to right?

Magic Maze+L27 Residence
8000c+2200p
8000/2.8=2857
2857+2200=5057
5057/39=129.67

Also, what's the difference between dividing the culture by that number and multiplying the population by that number (I saw you doing that in another thread)? Culture value vs population value I'm guessing?

 

[SoggyShorts]

@qaccy
Very close, just missed the -883 culture from the res.
8,000c-883c+2,200p
7,117/2.8=2,541
2,541+2200=4,742
4,742/39=121.58

Also, what's the difference between dividing the culture by that number and multiplying the population by that number (I saw you doing that in another thread)? Culture value vs population value I'm guessing?

Yep it's the same idea, but in reverse. You can either compare everything to culture by multiplying pop by 2.8, or compare everything to pop by dividing culture by 2.8.
I think it's best if we continue to comparing everything to pop since there's only residences(for normal buildings) but there's lots of different culture each chapter.

 

[qaccy]

@SoggyShorts
Right! That's one of the things I couldn't figure out how to work in when I was trying to compare things. Looking at that number though, it really looks like culture+pop buildings are the way to go...even the Barnyard of Happy Pets is about 25% more efficient than a Maze+Residence (I think), and that's just another normal researched building. Just have to keep the residences around for however many coins you need for things like factories and upgrades, I suppose...building a new residence from the ground up takes a heck of a lot longer than just plopping down a culture building, too!

 

[SoggyShorts]

even the Barnyard of Happy Pets is about 25% more efficient than a Maze+Residence

Barnyard looks like 152.... interesting, and you are right, building res from zero sucks big time. I had to add 12 level 23 res on beta to finally replace winter stars.
I think having a core of residences that you keep upgrading (~25 or so for those without extra expansions) and getting the rest of your pop with C&P either from event or normal would be a valid strategy.

Also, I forgot roads, so a residence placed the best way would share 3 road tiles with another building making a res take 15 + (3/2)= 16.5 squares making that barn thingy even more desirable.

 

[DeletedUser7421]

Population
To upgrade 8 workshops, 7 steel, 5 scrolls, 5 dust, the MH and barracks to max fairy levels and then upgrade 3 armories to max orc level will take me 22,824 people. After I upgrade all 42 houses to max orc level + my other population buildings I'll have 20,339 people available for upgrading - so Im STILL short -2490 people Sigh. I'll have to power upgrade my abyss to try to get the extra 2490 people?

Culture
I'll need 21,128 culture to do all the above upgrades and I currently have only +17,909 surplus - so Im going to have to add an extra 3220 culture just to get to 100% and then start adding culture to get any kind of surplus back. Luckily I'll have all the expansions Im not going to build an orcs settlement on, to add more culture.

Are there any AW's that increase culture as you level them up, or do they all have a static culture value?

*Edit*
Fairy roads will give me about +2400 culture, leaving me only around -850 short on culture. So if I win a flourishing nutcave in this event - then all the culture I add after that will be going back into building up the culture surplus again.

*Edit again*
I need 14 more expansions to complete all of the above, plus dedicate 3 more expansions to culture, build 2 more AWs, and have sufficient room to start building the orcs settlement. Since I've got 3 city expansions coming and 1 expansion from free chapter diamonds coming - I'll need to scout for 10 expansions. If I can manage 2 expansions a month that will take me 5 months, so until the middle of March - and I have targeted to resume research on the tech tree middle of April - with all my buildings completely upgraded and 4 AW's nicely upgraded (instead of just the 1 I have now)

I think it'll work!

 

[Sir Squirrel]

First you might find that as you upgrade your factories that you can sell one of each tier, as you will be able to produce quite a bit more goods as you upgrade. (that would give you back quite a bit of pop and culture). But yes the watch tower ruins and the Sanctuary/monastery both give culture and increases as you upgrade them. If you click on the wheel icon at the bottom of the screen in game, it shows all the wonders and what they do, if you hover over the picture of them it will show you what it will give you if you build it.

 

[SoggyShorts]

7 steel, 5 scrolls, 5 dust

Those are premium player levels of productions. Free players have 1 or even 2 less of each(and do just fine)