Something REALLY needs to be done about optional squad size "upgrades"

[DeletedUser20951]

They seem intent on just doing whatever they do and not actually trying to play the game themselves to experience and improve it.

That they do. I had an argument with another in the past who claimed that because Inno makes so much money, they know what they're doing and are basically beyond the criticism of us mere mortals, but while I have heard that the development response is much better for their more prestigious games (greater revenue generators), Elvenar definitely seems to be relegated to the back burner.

 

[Mykan]

Like some of the others I would fear that if they try to fix this that they will only make it harder for everyone. I already wonder if they feel people are doing more in tournaments then they expected, could be part of why new feature is so costly.

If you're in a group where you get 10 chests, then you're fine. But if you're trying to get in a group like that and have 500-700 point scores, they may not want you, and those 500-700 point scores may be because of the misinformation the game gives about these research techs.

If a person is scoring 500-700 points in a tourny it has very little if anything to do with optional squad sizes. Tons of people score well above that who have researched most of the upgrades. Prior to the changes doing the upgrades helped in combat so many players had researched them, and are now stuck with them. My wife is in elementals, has all (but maybe 1) squad size tech and she scores 1,600 pts a week. I have been part of a number of 10 chest fellowships and all but 1 had a minimum requirement of 600pts, and that requirement was all about the issue of "free-loading" rather than to assist in the contribution to 10 chests.

Tournaments provide so many benefits to a player, its why so many people do them and try to get better at them. It is also why we all get so upset over the squad size tech because its creates an unfairness and an imbalance to a feature that also has a competitive aspect. People just want an even playing field and not to be disadvantaged because they started playing years ago, didn't read about game mechanics, wanted to get past the first couple chapters, etc. etc.

 

[Sir Squirrel]

While I agree with you. If they don't want players to hit tourney's as hard as they are, they shouldn't have 10 chests as the only way to get blueprints!

 

[Deleted User - 1580260]

I do not understand why there are unwinnable fights at all.
\

 

[Mykan]

While I agree with you. If they don't want players to hit tourney's as hard as they are, they shouldn't have 10 chests as the only way to get blueprints!

I was referring to individuals hitting 10K+ scores and farming over 1,000kp a week, not fellowships getting 10 chests. Considering trouble with new spire its a shame they don't put a BP in there.

 

[Black watch]

I just read this thread start to finish and I'm nodding my head the whole time. I've upgraded all my squad sizes all along based on the information given that it would be helpful.
Yes, but only in the Provinces as said. Tourneys are a far different matter. The only reason I was and I'm able to do well in them from the start is I kept my Needles as a major priority and manual fought my way along. My tourney average is 4042 and my clan looks to me for information and guidance. Between two of us, we regularly carry the clan deeper into the tourney. To say it's been a struggle to get our clan fighting properly and deeper into the tourneys is an epic understatement. Most are just thrashed to within inches of their INNO lives and others bludgeoned with the insane time it takes to do them properly.
INNO could remove the animation excess, add another speed/make it instantaneous for those of us that don't need/want to see movement and fix that insanely ridiculous autofight that more often than not, moves your piece into the jaws of death when it didn't need to, to engage the enemy.
Because of the two basic fighting arenas (tourney and province) being at odds with each other, you have to have your squad size upgrades. If you do that however, your tourneys become so much harder and then you couple that with trying to save time with autofight, and you're loosing a huge amount of troops. I can bounce back after loosing 75,000 combined troops per week (It takes every ounce of time between tourneys) but my clan mates can't do that. Most are overwhelmed but the draw on their city in troop production or by catering. I see clan members slowly melting away due to this situation. When the day passes you by and your a$$ hurts because you did 33 provences in a tourney on the first round and you want harvest the KP the next time around, I know why they leave the game. It's too long, too frustrating and too costly for these players not up on strategy and fighting skill.
This game is like a modified solitaire game. One that is supposed to be fun and this issue between the tourneys and provinces is creating a deep rooted problem that is probably a big reason we have so many dead cities around us.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I was referring to individuals hitting 10K+ scores and farming over 1,000kp a week, not fellowships getting 10 chests. Considering trouble with new spire its a shame they don't put a BP in there.

I am pretty sure you can't farm that much KP from the tournaments.

If i do 65 provinces (17550 points) I get 685 KP + 135 from 10 chests
On average I am more close to 355- 410 KP + 135 from 10 chests (35-40 provinces)

So a 1000+ from the tournaments is a bit over the top, I manage 1500-2000 points on a week when I combine tournaments, the hourly KP, wondermail/train returns and some wonders that I find to invest in with a bigger return rate than I put in them (mostly app/solo players that dump there wonders full)

 

[Mykan]

I am pretty sure you can't farm that much KP from the tournaments.

Poor wording choice on my part, was referring to total KP. The bulk of it comes from tournaments, not sure you could hit 1,000+ kp without tournaments (ignoring the major events when KP is on offer).

 

[Tauriel Dragonwood]

After reading everyone’s comments, now I understand why some of our members refuse to waste their time, resources and troops competing in the tournaments. All the research they’re doing should make their military units stronger but it’s making the enemy units much stronger. They're getting tired of running out of goods from negotiating. Since they’re forced to negotiate because battles are too difficult, they prefer completing encounters on the World Map so at least they can gain expansions.

We’re still having fun in Elvenar aiding and trading, leveling up each other’s AWs, completing quests and research, and building up our cities. I’m not a strict Arch Mage and don’t demand that my fellowship needs to unlock a certain number of chests, but tournaments are important. This is my advice:

It's not mandatory to compete in the tournaments but…
if you want to increase your goods production boosts, gain
Knowledge and Ranking Points, Relics and Rune Shards,
I must reiterate, please try your best to participate.

I’m struggling in my two cities that are up to the Orcs and Goblins chapter. I’ve researched squad size upgrades, promotions, upgraded Barracks, Armories and AWs that increase health and strength of troops. Even researching Advanced Scouts does not seem to reduce scouting costs, costs for negotiating and the difficulty of fights within the scouted provinces. Still unable to fight, only negotiate in the provinces on the World Map. I’m guessing Easy provinces I will never see again.

In my new city in Felyndral I started to help new players, I’m also not seeing Easy provinces so I negotiate on the World Map provinces but can fight up to a certain point in the tournaments. I’m only up to Chapter 4 and have 10 squad size upgrades and researched Advanced Scouts 3 times so far.

If it’s just going to get more and more difficult battling enemy units even though I am upgrading AWs and completing research to improve my military, I will not complete any further research and stay in Chapter 4 awhile until the game devs rebalance the battle system. I hope Elvenar never becomes a game where the only way to progress is to spend diamonds.

 

[Mykan]

Even researching Advanced Scouts does not seem to reduce scouting costs, costs for negotiating and the difficulty of fights within the scouted provinces.

It won't, advanced scouts only helps with provinces you have not yet scouted. As soon as you scout one the difficulty is set, world map difficulty is related to scouting cost, so that can't change once its scouted, only before.

If it’s just going to get more and more difficult battling enemy units even though I am upgrading AWs and completing research to improve my military, I will not complete any further research and stay in Chapter 4 awhile until the game devs rebalance the battle system. I hope Elvenar never becomes a game where the only way to progress is to spend diamonds.

World map and tournaments are different, both in difficulty and approach for easier fights. The AW upgrades will help a lot in combat, however if your world map approach is such that all provinces will only ever be hard or very hard then you really won't notice the difference. Tournaments however have a fixed difficulty so those upgrades are more obvious. The SS tech issue is in relation to the troops used and the speed at which you can replace those.

 

[Tauriel Dragonwood]

It won't, advanced scouts only helps with provinces you have not yet scouted.

Mykan, even when I first scout a province, it doesn't help. I wouldn't even bother completing research on Advanced Scouts but I have no choice. To advance to the next chapter you have to unlock Advanced Scouts.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

After reading everyone’s comments, now I understand why some of our members refuse to waste their time, resources and troops competing in the tournaments. All the research they’re doing should make their military units stronger but it’s making the enemy units much stronger. They're getting tired of running out of goods from negotiating. Since they’re forced to negotiate because battles are too difficult, they prefer completing encounters on the World Map so at least they can gain expansions.

We’re still having fun in Elvenar aiding and trading, leveling up each other’s AWs, completing quests and research, and building up our cities. I’m not a strict Arch Mage and don’t demand that my fellowship needs to unlock a certain number of chests, but tournaments are important. This is my advice:

It's not mandatory to compete in the tournaments but…
if you want to increase your goods production boosts, gain
Knowledge and Ranking Points, Relics and Rune Shards,
I must reiterate, please try your best to participate.

I’m struggling in my two cities that are up to the Orcs and Goblins chapter. I’ve researched squad size upgrades, promotions, upgraded Barracks, Armories and AWs that increase health and strength of troops. Even researching Advanced Scouts does not seem to reduce scouting costs, costs for negotiating and the difficulty of fights within the scouted provinces. Still unable to fight, only negotiate in the provinces on the World Map. I’m guessing Easy provinces I will never see again.

In my new city in Felyndral I started to help new players, I’m also not seeing Easy provinces so I negotiate on the World Map provinces but can fight up to a certain point in the tournaments. I’m only up to Chapter 4 and have 10 squad size upgrades and researched Advanced Scouts 3 times so far.

If it’s just going to get more and more difficult battling enemy units even though I am upgrading AWs and completing research to improve my military, I will not complete any further research and stay in Chapter 4 awhile until the game devs rebalance the battle system. I hope Elvenar never becomes a game where the only way to progress is to spend diamonds.

It makes your troops and the enemies stronger, the overal balance is the same.
The problem with this is as follows:

• Both players produce 10.000 units
• Players A fights 1000 units agains 1000 units, Player B fights 1200 units agains 1200 units.
• Player A gets hit and looses 10% of its units, the loss is 100 units, Player B gets hit and looses 10% units, the loss is 120 units.

So the main issue is not with battle difficulty thats exactly the same, it are the losses of troops that one endures at the same difficulty.
Since both players have the same unit production as there at the same part of the game.

Part of this can be solved with wonders, The amount of units the produce is based on your SS as well. therefore more or less SS does not impact the difficuly as you also increase your production when your losses increase
But they limit the influence of the problematic part that doesn't change, the "barracks" troops. example: at start the influence of the barracks is 100%, but when you aquire 40% of your troops from wonders then the influence of the barracks is only 60%
Using the same example as before:

• player A looses 10% of 1000 troops aka 100 troops, 60 of these are barracks bound, 40 of them are balanced agains SS increases due wonders
• Player b looses 10% of 1200 troops aka 120 troops, 72 troops are barracks bound, 48 of them are balanced agains SS increases due wonders
• The loss now drops from 20 to a difference of 12 on the unbalanced barracks side reducing the imbalance between both players significantly.

A second issue is negotiations, this is where the biggest imbalance exists, as this cannot be "negated" by using wonders to balance it out.
Player B in this case litterally pays more goods for the same encounter as his SS is higher.
Again the production for both players is the same.

 

[Ashrem]

That they do. I had an argument with another in the past who claimed that because Inno makes so much money, they know what they're doing and are basically beyond the criticism of us mere mortals

Really? That sounds like a fabrication. Who exactly made this claim about them being beyond criticism?

 

[DeletedUser2870]

There is definitely something unbalanced here.
The squadsize upgrades that are optional are spread out throughout the game but the ones in the first 4-5 chapters are hardly optional at all. Those are needed to be able to progress as fighting in the provinces soon is pretty much impossible without them. For elves even more so than humans as the elven units are in some aspects weaker than their human counterparts (at least in the beginning). And in the first few chapters it is a huge drain on ones resources if one has to negotiate each encounter.

So the squadsize-upgrades are very important to fight in the provinces, but are a detriment to tourney fights and that seems to be rather unbalanced.

That being said, those who do chose the path of concentrating on fighting mostly will end up with all military wonders to boost their troops and that kinda offsets the drawback, but it comes at a hefty price in space. It also means that players who chose to fight have yet another disadvantage.
Those who focus on goods can make do with the GA, the MH, and perhaps the CL (and at the end the Timewarp), together with one of the AWs that provides additional resources and maybe one for culture. 5-7 AWs should cover their needs.
Someone who fights ends up NEEDING all of the military ones and that means 11 AWs, not even counting the GA that always is a good choice. So a LOT more space AND a lot more KP's to be invested to get them to a point where they really start making a difference. Plus of course at least 1 extra armory and both the traininggrounds and mercenary camp, which can be done without if one doesn't fight a lot.

But if one does invest in those AWs there is no reason why one can't do very well in the tourneys even with all 11 optional squadsize increases. I have all of them and battle mostly on autofight, yet have no problem scoring at the very leasy 2500 points each week. If I had the time to do it all manually 5000 points a week would be very do-able, since the losses are way less that way.

 

[DeletedUser23732]

Those are so badly explained in the research tree, and so the game is so badly balanced around them. Before this chat I've known 2 people quit over this, and a 3rd completely restart their account, only to quit later on.

And I thought squad upgrades were to support us making things easier. Nope?

They turn my difficulty down, on my provinces. I'm just realizing that I need to sit at the end of each chapter and build troops until I have about 100 of everything.
The time spent sitting still building troops, is time I can spend building other player's AWs. . Some one once said a funny thing to me: I don't have any more AW KPs. I bit my tongue, but I wanted to say, all KPs are AW KPs, only magic is exclusively AW KPs.

My Problem with Squad Size boosts is they seem to have the same ERROR FA does. At least FA's Error was planned. This one seems to ignore past squad size bonuses in at least ch4 if you don't fight right after researching it. It arrears that the difficulty bonus (easier) color changes after one application even if you've finished them all and then fight the bonus vanishes. Green for about a third of what you need. Would someone (monitor) please check into this?

 

[DeletedUser2870]

It makes your troops and the enemies stronger, the overal balance is the same.
The problem with this is as follows:

• Both players produce 10.000 units
• Players A fights 1000 units agains 1000 units, Player B fights 1200 units agains 1200 units.
• Player A gets hit and looses 10% of its units, the loss is 100 units, Player B gets hit and looses 10% units, the loss is 120 units.

So the main issue is not with battle difficulty thats exactly the same, it are the losses of troops that one endures at the same difficulty.
Since both players have the same unit production as there at the same part of the game.

Part of this can be solved with wonders, The amount of units the produce is based on your SS as well. therefore more or less SS does not impact the difficuly as you also increase your production when your losses increase
But they limit the influence of the problematic part that doesn't change, the "barracks" troops. example: at start the influence of the barracks is 100%, but when you aquire 40% of your troops from wonders then the influence of the barracks is only 60%
Using the same example as before:

• player A looses 10% of 1000 troops aka 100 troops, 60 of these are barracks bound, 40 of them are balanced agains SS increases due wonders
• Player b looses 10% of 1200 troops aka 120 troops, 72 troops are barracks bound, 48 of them are balanced agains SS increases due wonders
• The loss now drops from 20 to a difference of 12 on the unbalanced barracks side reducing the imbalance between both players significantly.

A second issue is negotiations, this is where the biggest imbalance exists, as this cannot be "negated" by using wonders to balance it out.
Player B in this case litterally pays more goods for the same encounter as his SS is higher.
Again the production for both players is the same.

Your analysis is incorrect on several levels I am afraid.
First of all, there is not a single AW that increases your SS. There are 3 that increase training speed (one each for barracks, training ground and mercenary camp) and there are 2 that increase the TRAINING size, and now one that gives a bonus to troops harvested from those buildings, effectively increasing training size even more, but without increased time, but there are no wonders increasing your squadsize.

Second of all, you do not take into account that players who focus on fighting will often have multiple military AWs up. Those not only provide huge bonuses in the amount of damage done, they also generate additional units which means the replenishment rate is much higher.
(For instance, all my unit-creating AWs are at lvl 11 now, meaning they can be harvested for 2/3 of a squad every 3 hours. With the 5 of them, harvesting only 3x/day, that means 2 full squads of each type every day APART from what the barracks produce, so that equals 10 full additional squads each day. More if one could harvest more often. The training speed also is much higher for me than someone who does not have the Needles up, meaning I get more units/hour, despite having the same level of barracks and the same number of armories).

To make a really fair comparison, one would need 2 cities, same race to keep everything the same, both at least at the end of chapter 5, no military AWs in either of them, exact same levels in barracks/traininggrounds and exactly the same amount of armories at the same level. But 1 city should have all 4 the optional squadsizes researched, the other should have none. (Meaning the last one would have to have a lot of support in goods from other cities to even get there, as fighting in the provinces to get to that point will be damn near impossible).

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Your analysis is incorrect on several levels I am afraid.
First of all, there is not a single AW that increases your SS. There are 3 that increase training speed (one each for barracks, training ground and mercenary camp) and there are 2 that increase the TRAINING size, and now one that gives a bonus to troops harvested from those buildings, effectively increasing training size even more, but without increased time, but there are no wonders increasing your squadsize.

Second of all, you do not take into account that players who focus on fighting will often have multiple military AWs up. Those not only provide huge bonuses in the amount of damage done, they also generate additional units which means the replenishment rate is much higher.
(For instance, all my unit-creating AWs are at lvl 11 now, meaning they can be harvested for 2/3 of a squad every 3 hours. With the 5 of them, harvesting only 3x/day, that means 2 full squads of each type every day APART from what the barracks produce, so that equals 10 full additional squads each day. More if one could harvest more often. The training speed also is much higher for me than someone who does not have the Needles up, meaning I get more units/hour, despite having the same level of barracks and the same number of armories).

To make a really fair comparison, one would need 2 cities, same race to keep everything the same, both at least at the end of chapter 5, no military AWs in either of them, exact same levels in barracks/traininggrounds and exactly the same amount of armories at the same level. But 1 city should have all 4 the optional squadsizes researched, the other should have none. (Meaning the last one would have to have a lot of support in goods from other cities to even get there, as fighting in the provinces to get to that point will be damn near impossible).

I think you forgot to read my analysis before posting this post..
I explained that both players produced X units at there barracks, how this X units had been created does not matter for a SS analysis problem as long as the mothod is the same.
Same with damage wonders there irrelevant as well. we just assumume all those factors are the same at the 2 examples as you need to compare apples with apples. if you would not you would compare apples to pears which makes no sense at all.
reality would create many more variables but when you compare stuff you always look for a common denominator. (aka a point where all the (other) variables are the same)

As for the production of units, I clearly explained how that's a negating factor to the SS penalty.
Those are the only buildings that are SS bound. and therefore they do have an effect.

 

[DeletedUser23732]

@LEH.elven: 1st, thank you all very much for your input! . 2nd, let me get this conversation straight.

After reading everyone’s comments, now I understand why some of our members refuse to waste their time, resources and troops competing in the tournaments. All the research they’re doing should make their military units stronger but it’s making the enemy units much stronger. They're getting tired of running out of goods from negotiating. Since they’re forced to negotiate because battles are too difficult, they prefer completing encounters on the World Map so at least they can gain expansions.

We’re still having fun in Elvenar aiding and trading, leveling up each other’s AWs, completing quests and research, and building up our cities. I’m not a strict Arch Mage and don’t demand that my fellowship needs to unlock a certain number of chests, but tournaments are important. This is my advice:

It's not mandatory to compete in the tournaments but…
if you want to increase your goods production boosts, gain
Knowledge and Ranking Points, Relics and Rune Shards,
I must reiterate, please try your best to participate.

I’m struggling in my two cities that are up to the Orcs and Goblins chapter. I’ve researched squad size upgrades, promotions, upgraded Barracks, Armories and AWs that increase health and strength of troops. Even researching Advanced Scouts does not seem to reduce scouting costs, costs for negotiating and the difficulty of fights within the scouted provinces. Still unable to fight, only negotiate in the provinces on the World Map. I’m guessing Easy provinces I will never see again.

In my new city in Felyndral I started to help new players, I’m also not seeing Easy provinces so I negotiate on the World Map provinces but can fight up to a certain point in the tournaments. I’m only up to Chapter 4 and have 10 squad size upgrades and researched Advanced Scouts 3 times so far.

If it’s just going to get more and more difficult battling enemy units even though I am upgrading AWs and completing research to improve my military, I will not complete any further research and stay in Chapter 4 awhile until the game devs rebalance the battle system. I hope Elvenar never becomes a game where the only way to progress is to spend diamonds.

It makes your troops and the enemies stronger, the overal balance is the same.
The problem with this is as follows:

• Both players produce 10.000 units
• Players A fights 1000 units agains 1000 units, Player B fights 1200 units agains 1200 units.
• Player A gets hit and looses 10% of its units, the loss is 100 units, Player B gets hit and looses 10% units, the loss is 120 units.

So the main issue is not with battle difficulty thats exactly the same, it are the losses of troops that one endures at the same difficulty.
Since both players have the same unit production as there at the same part of the game.

Part of this can be solved with wonders, The amount of units the produce is based on your SS as well. therefore more or less SS does not impact the difficuly as you also increase your production when your losses increase
But they limit the influence of the problematic part that doesn't change, the "barracks" troops. example: at start the influence of the barracks is 100%, but when you aquire 40% of your troops from wonders then the influence of the barracks is only 60%
Using the same example as before:

• player A looses 10% of 1000 troops aka 100 troops, 60 of these are barracks bound, 40 of them are balanced agains SS increases due wonders
• Player b looses 10% of 1200 troops aka 120 troops, 72 troops are barracks bound, 48 of them are balanced agains SS increases due wonders
• The loss now drops from 20 to a difference of 12 on the unbalanced barracks side reducing the imbalance between both players significantly.

A second issue is negotiations, this is where the biggest imbalance exists, as this cannot be "negated" by using wonders to balance it out.
Player B in this case litterally pays more goods for the same encounter as his SS is higher.
Again the production for both players is the same.

@LEH.elven: Nice attempt to help explain.​

Your analysis is incorrect on several levels I am afraid.
First of all, there is not a single AW that increases your SS. There are 3 that increase training speed (one each for barracks, training ground and mercenary camp) and there are 2 that increase the TRAINING size, and now one that gives a bonus to troops harvested from those buildings, effectively increasing training size even more, but without increased time, but there are no wonders increasing your squadsize.

Second of all, you do not take into account that players who focus on fighting will often have multiple military AWs up. Those not only provide huge bonuses in the amount of damage done, they also generate additional units which means the replenishment rate is much higher.
(For instance, all my unit-creating AWs are at lvl 11 now, meaning they can be harvested for 2/3 of a squad every 3 hours. With the 5 of them, harvesting only 3x/day, that means 2 full squads of each type every day APART from what the barracks produce, so that equals 10 full additional squads each day. More if one could harvest more often. The training speed also is much higher for me than someone who does not have the Needles up, meaning I get more units/hour, despite having the same level of barracks and the same number of armories).

To make a really fair comparison, one would need 2 cities, same race to keep everything the same, both at least at the end of chapter 5, no military AWs in either of them, exact same levels in barracks/traininggrounds and exactly the same amount of armories at the same level. But 1 city should have all 4 the optional squadsizes researched, the other should have none. (Meaning the last one would have to have a lot of support in goods from other cities to even get there, as fighting in the provinces to get to that point will be damn near impossible).

@LEH.elven: I see you saying it's more complicated.​

I think you forgot to read my analysis before posting this post..
I explained that both players produced X units at there barracks, how this X units had been created does not matter for a SS analysis problem as long as the mothod is the same.
Same with damage wonders there irrelevant as well. we just assumume all those factors are the same at the 2 examples as you need to compare apples with apples. if you would not you would compare apples to pears which makes no sense at all.
reality would create many more variables but when you compare stuff you always look for a common denominator. (aka a point where all the (other) variables are the same)

As for the production of units, I clearly explained how that's a negating factor to the SS penalty.
Those are the only buildings that are SS bound. and therefore they do have an effect.

And, I hear you saying you weren't heard.​

Expand to see the complete conversation.​

@LEH.elven: I think that's everything. . And I believe you were heard. . It sounds like you both ( @Dhurrin and @CrazyWizard have valid points and if you really want to resolve the finite parts you should work together to understand each other's point of view and tell @Tauriel Dragonwood your findings or cease because each of you are right in their own thinking. . It's just that you are on different pages because of your perspective.

 

[Pheryll]

My Problem with Squad Size boosts is they seem to have the same ERROR FA does. At least FA's Error was planned. This one seems to ignore past squad size bonuses in at least ch4 if you don't fight right after researching it. It arrears that the difficulty bonus (easier) color changes after one application even if you've finished them all and then fight the bonus vanishes. Green for about a third of what you need. Would someone (monitor) please check into this?

Could you describe the problem more clearly? What difficulty bonus color change are you referring to?

 

[DeletedUser23732]

Sure @Pheryll. . Since you asked, I assume you're a phone-only user. . Why? . Because, on the computer version, you can see the (very easy: don't remember, easy: Green, Medium [I won't scout higher]: Yellow, hard: Orange and, very hard: Red) color of the difficulty scouting and concurring; where on the phone app there's only a single silver circle on unscouted territory.