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    Your Elvenar Team

Discussion Sorcerers' Homecoming discussion

Kekune

Well-Known Member
Off topic again, despite my earlier promise.
Exactly how does having more provinces have any bearing ????
a double elimination tournament has nothing to do with how many
provinces you've opened .... You lose.
Sorry, I read too quickly. Since your reply was basically "yes this would be great!" I didn't notice you were actually proposing something totally different.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Has anyone look'd @ all sets, NONE are more than 5 pieces,
except the current set @ 7 .... So for this set, maybee 2 pieces
between each set piece (GPs) was 1 too many...

All I know is with 30 minutes left, Bronze better be 260+ or
( to me ) this event will be a total failure.
The set itself is one of the best GP we had in a long while.
For that alone this event will not be a fail for me. makes sense that on the first "moneymaker" event, they add a really good building.

The set complete was pretty much guaranteed if you from the get go played for the set (and the set alone) you need an average of 22 or lower per staff to het to that point. this means you have to avoid all the "expensive" chests per staff (who are often better for dailies) and target the proper ones exclusively.

In the past years we have been spoiled to the bone with super duper easy completion of all grand prize. I still remember the times where all grand prizes where only possible with money or a 0.05% luck chance (aka no chance)

For me I hope they keep it this tight in the future, I like the suspense of shall we make it or not.
How far can we go, and how (un)lucky do we get.

I like the fact you have to make choices, its not a close your eyes bash buttons and success, but plan ahead and think.

For me this is the middle ground between the impossible you pay or no gain we started with 5 years ago, and the too easy close you eyes and boringly succeed from the past 3 years or so.

On the exception of 1 event I totally ignored (got really bored, mostly ignored and did not complete all quests, valantines artefact 5 event 2 FSA) I have 2 baseplates or more of every single evolution event. and 7 parts of the 5 part air trader set.

there was absolutely no challenge left in any event.
 

Guurt The Destroyer

Well-Known Member
The set itself is one of the best GP we had in a long while.
For that alone this event will not be a fail for me. makes sense that on the first "moneymaker" event, they add a really good building.

The set complete was pretty much guaranteed if you from the get go played for the set (and the set alone) you need an average of 22 or lower per staff to het to that point. this means you have to avoid all the "expensive" chests per staff (who are often better for dailies) and target the proper ones exclusively.

In the past years we have been spoiled to the bone with super duper easy completion of all grand prize. I still remember the times where all grand prizes where only possible with money or a 0.05% luck chance (aka no chance)

For me I hope they keep it this tight in the future, I like the suspense of shall we make it or not.
How far can we go, and how (un)lucky do we get.

I like the fact you have to make choices, its not a close your eyes bash buttons and success, but plan ahead and think.

For me this is the middle ground between the impossible you pay or no gain we started with 5 years ago, and the too easy close you eyes and boringly succeed from the past 3 years or so.

On the exception of 1 event I totally ignored (got really bored, mostly ignored and did not complete all quests, valantines artefact 5 event 2 FSA) I have 2 baseplates or more of every single evolution event. and 7 parts of the 5 part air trader set.

there was absolutely no challenge left in any event.
Nice theory, but a lot of times the 3 Beacons that are available all have a much higher average than 22. I am assuming the pattern isn't the same for everyone, and that each time you get a choice of 3 Beacons they are randomly generated. Plenty of times the best choice I am given has at best 29.66 staff per SK. This idea that everyone can make all 7 sets if they always take the most efficient staff to SK is only true if the Beacon distribution is not random or if there is some code managing the Beacon distribution that prevents a player from getting an unusually high number of Beacon sets with low staff to SK.

In my experience the only reason I am going to make the 7th piece is because I was lucky and managed to get enough bonus SK. In many of those cases it was because I gambled by taking a chance for bonus SK that paid off rather than taking the efficient staff to SK option that had no chance of bonus SK. The 1 staff for 32 SK has a 28% chance for 30 free SK. This hit for me multiple times. I also got 300 free SK at least once. Again, total luck. Playing only towards the Grand Prize isn't a real strategy unless the Beacon distribution is guaranteed to make that possible.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
The set complete was pretty much guaranteed if you from the get go played for the set (and the set alone) you need an average of 22 or lower per staff to het to that point. this means you have to avoid all the "expensive" chests per staff (who are often better for dailies) and target the proper ones exclusively.
I think "pretty much guaranteed" might be an inaccurate statement. I've picked all of the right chests and if my luck remains the same I won't make it.
What are the chances that I, as one of the 12(?) active forum members wouldn't make it if it was "pretty much guaranteed" ? ;)

Where's @MinMax Gamer when you need him?
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Nice theory, but a lot of times the 3 Beacons that are available all have a much higher average than 22. I am assuming the pattern isn't the same for everyone, and that each time you get a choice of 3 Beacons they are randomly generated. Plenty of times the best choice I am given has at best 29.66 staff per SK. This idea that everyone can make all 7 sets if they always take the most efficient staff to SK is only true if the Beacon distribution is not random or if there is some code managing the Beacon distribution that prevents a player from getting an unusually high number of Beacon sets with low staff to SK.

In my experience the only reason I am going to make the 7th piece is because I was lucky and managed to get enough bonus SK. In many of those cases it was because I gambled by taking a chance for bonus SK that paid off rather than taking the efficient staff to SK option that had no chance of bonus SK. The 1 staff for 32 SK has a 28% chance for 30 free SK. This hit for me multiple times. I also got 300 free SK at least once. Again, total luck. Playing only towards the Grand Prize isn't a real strategy unless the Beacon distribution is guaranteed to make that possible.

Chest (sk)Expected Return (sk/flag)Face Return (sk/flag)Face difference
18 (1)1818.00
27 (1)1927.00-8.00
45 (sk) (2)19.7022.50-2.80
80 (3)21.6726.67-5.00
89 (3)21.6729.67-8.00
45 (no sk) (2)22.5022.50
54 (2)22.5027.00-4.50
32 (1)23.6032.00-8.40
30 (1)26.2530.00-3.75
https://en.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/sorcerers-homecoming-event.14656/post-92935

There are 5 chests that have an average of less then 22. if you consistently picked 18/45/80 or 89 (in that order and not a fan of the 27) the chances for you to go beyond 22 is very slim, you have to be realy unlucky to not make it. the 18 and 45 chests would normally offset enough bad luck on the 80/89 chests.

Yes you can fail in theory but it's very unlikely.

if you grab a lot of 32/30 chest you are very unlikely to get anywhere near a full set unless you get insanely lucky.

Opened:
18: 53x
27: 10x (1 return of 80 @ 10%)
30 1x (accident)
45: 35x (with return)(2 returns of 80 @ 7%)
54: 1x
80: 31x (3 returns of 300 @ 5%)
89: 27x (5 returns of 200 @ 12%)

Spot on average on the 27 chest (10% vs 10%)
Slightly unlucky with the 45 chest (5.7% vs 7%)
Lucky with the 80 chests (9.7% vs 5%)
Lucky with the 89 chest (18.5% vs 12%)

I got very lucky this time and have blown way past the 260 mark into gold range.
I grabbed more 80/89 chests then I should have but took the gamble on purpose since I wanted a small chance to get the picture (which looks like it was made for me)

but it all starts with planning ahead, while 27 chest was often the better option, I gambled on the 80/89 chests because a bit of luck there is what you need for a gold result. while the 27 chests is good luck there will not bring you far. the 45 chests is near similar and also less risky so I also preferred that one over 27.

Of course I also risked a lot on the 80/89 chests more than I should have, So that could have bitten me, but that was a risk I was willing to take.

I think "pretty much guaranteed" might be an inaccurate statement. I've picked all of the right chests and if my luck remains the same I won't make it.
What are the chances that I, as one of the 12(?) active forum members wouldn't make it if it was "pretty much guaranteed" ? ;)

Where's @MinMax Gamer when you need him?
Pretty much guaranteed is not always guaranteed. thats a bit of the fun, by having a slight chance of not making it even if you do the right thing, will make opening chests a lot more exiting

Whats the exitement in opening chest if you know it's in the pocket anyway?
 

Guurt The Destroyer

Well-Known Member
Chest (sk)Expected Return (sk/flag)Face Return (sk/flag)Face difference
18 (1)1818.00
27 (1)1927.00-8.00
45 (sk) (2)19.7022.50-2.80
80 (3)21.6726.67-5.00
89 (3)21.6729.67-8.00
45 (no sk) (2)22.5022.50
54 (2)22.5027.00-4.50
32 (1)23.6032.00-8.40
30 (1)26.2530.00-3.75
https://en.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/sorcerers-homecoming-event.14656/post-92935

There are 5 chests that have an average of less then 22. if you consistently picked 18/45/80 or 89 (in that order and not a fan of the 27) the chances for you to go beyond 22 is very slim, you have to be realy unlucky to not make it. the 18 and 45 chests would normally offset enough bad luck on the 80/89 chests.

Yes you can fail in theory but it's very unlikely.

if you grab a lot of 32/30 chest you are very unlikely to get anywhere near a full set unless you get insanely lucky.

Opened:
18: 53x
27: 10x (1 return of 80 @ 10%)
30 1x (accident)
45: 35x (with return)(2 returns of 80 @ 7%)
54: 1x
80: 31x (3 returns of 300 @ 5%)
89: 27x (5 returns of 200 @ 12%)

Spot on average on the 27 chest (10% vs 10%)
Slightly unlucky with the 45 chest (5.7% vs 7%)
Lucky with the 80 chests (9.7% vs 5%)
Lucky with the 89 chest (18.5% vs 12%)

I got very lucky this time and have blown way past the 260 mark into gold range.
I grabbed more 80/89 chests then I should have but took the gamble on purpose since I wanted a small chance to get the picture (which looks like it was made for me)

but it all starts with planning ahead, while 27 chest was often the better option, I gambled on the 80/89 chests because a bit of luck there is what you need for a gold result. while the 27 chests is good luck there will not bring you far. the 45 chests is near similar and also less risky so I also preferred that one over 27.

Of course I also risked a lot on the 80/89 chests more than I should have, So that could have bitten me, but that was a risk I was willing to take.


Pretty much guaranteed is not always guaranteed. thats a bit of the fun, by having a slight chance of not making it even if you do the right thing, will make opening chests a lot more exiting

Whats the exitement in opening chest if you know it's in the pocket anyway?
The expected return is not real. It is possible to get very few instances of free SK and even possible to get 0 instances of free SK.

6 of the 9 Beacons offer an actual return of 26.67 per SK or higher.

If a player's Beacon distribution favors these 6 Beacons and if the player doesn't manage to hit the free SK often, or when they do it is only for the lower values then it doesn't really matter what choices the player makes.

Yes, you can minimize your odds of being unlucky, but you can't avoid luck completely. At the end of the day this is a luck based event.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
The expected return is not real. It is possible to get very few instances of free SK and even possible to get 0 instances of free SK.

6 of the 9 Beacons offer an actual return of 26.67 per SK or higher.

If a player's Beacon distribution favors these 6 Beacons and if the player doesn't manage to hit the free SK often, or when they do it is only for the lower values then it doesn't really matter what choices the player makes.

Yes, you can minimize your odds of being unlucky, but you can't avoid luck completely. At the end of the day this is a luck based event.
off course you cannot avoid luck. it about averages some chests are more luck based and some less.
But you can manage "luck" to a certain degree.

And it does not mean you should ignore paybacks as a part of the cost per staff.

Meh. I was always excited to cash the paycheck that I earned, even though I knew how much it was.
You got exited? I don't get exited for a paycheck, both me and the employer knows what quit pro quo is.
Unless it's normal in your place of residence that the employer puts random numbers as your paycheck, in that case it will be exiting to see if you can pay your bills, go in debt or can go on a holiday.

But to be fair if my employer would be like that I would kick him/her to the curb and start a court case to get what I deserved.

Elvenar is not "work", it's entertainment, it's closer to a day out + buying a lottery ticket (also exiting) then going to my job.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
buying a lottery ticket (also exiting)
yuck. They literally call the lottery here "the stupid tax".
Not the kind of excitement I go for.
Unless it's normal in your place of residence that the employer puts random numbers as your paycheck, in that case it will be exiting to see if you can pay your bills, go in debt or can go on a holiday.
The opposite. I knew exactly what my pay was going to be and looked forward to it coming in so I could buy all the things that I wanted.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Sounds so american, buy, buy buy, buy, buy, buy, buy. there is more in life than working and buying.

I work to live, I do not live to work.
I never mind working but it will never be my life goal.

Guess thats where I am from we work 32-36 hours(but a very high productivity) have 20 mandatory must take leave days by law and 5 leave days. maternity leave, paternity leave, payed sick leave, and protections agains being fired for no good reason and other goodies.

I love my life. and I do not have to be exited if I get my next pay, instead i'll be exited about all the fun things I can / will do once corona is gone.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
And it does not mean you should ignore paybacks as a part of the cost per staff.
I always do my calculations as if I will not win back any bonus currency at all because that has happened to me before. And then, once I know how far I can get with the normal amounts, plus what I pick up, I can estimate how much extra I would have to win to complete whatever the grand prize is.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
I always do my calculations as if I will not win back any bonus currency at all because that has happened to me before. And then, once I know how far I can get with the normal amounts, plus what I pick up, I can estimate how much extra I would have to win to complete whatever the grand prize is.
but of you ignore it, then you might need much more then you actally need, and you might pick "bad chest" because of it.

btw I just noticed that if you have an incomplete set (missing last piece) you can still get a full set bonus on all buildings.
1624742035250.png

Move that 1 building to the position of the arrow and you might not have a beautifull rectangle, but you do get the max bonus on everything.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
Sounds so american, buy, buy buy, buy, buy, buy, buy. there is more in life than working and buying.
I work to live, I do not live to work.
I never mind working but it will never be my life goal.
Guess thats where I am from we work 32-36 hours(but a very high productivity) have 20 mandatory must take leave days by law and 5 leave days. maternity leave, paternity leave, payed sick leave, and protections agains being fired for no good reason and other goodies.
I love my life. and I do not have to be exited if I get my next pay, instead i'll be exited about all the fun things I can / will do once corona is gone.
1. I'm not even American
2. I was a kid when I had someone else writing me paychecks, did you spend your earliest checks on anything wise?
3. I retired last year at 40 after working in a seasonal (May-Oct) industry where I put in 20-30h a week the last 5 years.
4. The things I got excited about "buying" the last couple of years was 4-month long vacations overseas.

But yeah, keep buying those lotto tickets, bragging about your mat leave, and looking down on me.
 
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zodiphd

New Member
The set works just great without the last piece. You can get full link bonuses with 6 buildings! The only thing your missing is the steel.
Yes, connecting buildings in the set will work to get you a bonus, but I really need non-boosted goods and was looking forward to getting it after seeing it in full action in Beta. Just disappointed, but, like another player suggested, it can easily be replaced with a future event set/evolving building.
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
@CrazyWizard , hate to tell ya , but for awhile now some ppl
have been trying to say ... but the set works fine with 6 ....
@SoggyShorts , showed a rational/logical reason to show
that it really didn't ...

Just Like Soggy, I picked all the right chests and in all 3 worlds
I have, I will be short for the last GP, the forge .... as @zodiphd
pointed out, part of the charm is getting ur non boosted good,
and the forge is the coolest annimation of the whole set, to me.

I completely understand your viewpoint , that perhaps Inno has
seen a decline in sales during events. There can be many reasons
for that .... so if revenue is the only driving factor, then why can't
I buy a stash outpost with diamonds, and why isn't it avail to
all players, every event ??? Why can't we buy event currency
directly with $$$, rather than paying twice to 1st get diamonds
then exchange those for currency ???

On the other hand , perhaps the playerbase is buying less diamonds
to show Inno, that some of thier draconian changes aren't well
recieved , basically vote'n with thier pocketbook...... Lets face it,
there are far more reasons for declining revenue, than just that.

If Inno-Games wants my $$$, then since it seems to have $$$ for
national ad campaigns, then its big enuff to have those dumb
cards in the supermarket, that can be bought with cash....

Bottom line to alot of ppl, not getting a stage10 evolve, or not
getting the whole set .... =failure
 

Nectar of the Gods

Well-Known Member
Yes, connecting buildings in the set will work to get you a bonus, but I really need non-boosted goods and was looking forward to getting it after seeing it in full action in Beta. Just disappointed, but, like another player suggested, it can easily be replaced with a future event set/evolving building.
But the set shouldn't need to be replaced. If you have the entire set and you like it, then you can use RR spells to bring it up to your next chapter. (Btw, thank you Inno for creating RR spells.)

I have sets that are a lot older than the next event. I keep them because they give me what I want and need. Giving Inno a pass on an event where the majority of the people are not getting a complete set even after doing everything they can to gain the complete set (except buy and spend diamonds) isn't a good direction to go. At least not in my mind.

It's ok to feel disappointed, zodiphd. You are not the only person who is disappointed by this event.
 

Alram

Well-Known Member
There seem to be a lot of players who simply choose to spend their diamonds on other things. If event grand prizes aren't worth spending their diamonds on, that's ok.
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
have been trying to say ... but the set works fine with 6
I have not been trying to say, I have said and will continue to say:

The Pilgrims Manor link bonuses work with only 6 buildings.

This is a statement of fact.

I have resorted to calling the building by name. Frankly I think it is more confusing this way, but whatever.

Other players have said and will continue to say:
a: They are far more interested in the steel production than in the rest of the set. Statement of Fact.
or
b: they are far more interested in having a complete set. Statement of Fact
or
c: The RNG should be removed from the events.
... request for action that many object to.

The only way to remove bad luck is to remove good luck. Take event currency out of the chests no luck involved!
I like the RNG. Yeah, it sucks to the heavens when it turns against you...but then it smiles!
 
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