Dhurrin
Well-Known Member
Me too! Although my stock right now is mostly dropping because of rushing productions
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Your Elvenar Team
Spire Changes - Aug 2024
- Thread starter Silly Bubbles
- Start date
Dhurrin
Well-Known Member
I did so after I finished chap 21 as well and have mostly used them since then. Though the last 2 months I have been saving them up again as the start of chap 22 was announced (and kept being moved backwards).
So now I have the following expiring buildings in my inventory (not counting the military booster buildings)
14x Carting Library
13x Genie
12 Garden Stones
8x Goddess of Wishes
4x Ferris Wheel Galore
2x Ludibria Ventis
1x Mana Rune
and 6x Stash Outpost spread out over several chapter (never minded getting them by paying for them, but I usually don't use them anymore, so they just sit there)
The other 1x1 small temporary buildings I usually just place to help reduce the cluttering, except the Garden stones. Those I keep for the times I want to activate my Brown Bear and quickly increase the training size so I can use the larger time boosters without any lost time.
When I finish chap 22 I'll probably place most of them to clear up the inventory a bit again
Silly Bubbles
You cant pop them all
So my time instants are back up. It's mainly due to 9 genies and also saving from letting some crafting recipes run rather than using time instants on all of them.
Dominionofgod
Thinker of Ideas
Its been a few weeks now. And i stand by my first declaration of these spire changes being a disaster.
For the last few years i was able to complete the full spire, all 3 floors, every single week.
Since the change, accomplishing that seems like a pipe dream. The loss of the time instants is far more massive then inno led us to believe. I did the full spire the first two weeks after the change (for FA). Both weeks, on both cities, i didnt even get enough time instants to cover climbing the tower. Much less having any to use for my city. I was losing time instants massively over all. I was also losing far to many troops. Even with a military ready city. And now, no time instants to replenish troops. So completing the spire will become unsustainable very very quick.
So as a result, i will/can no longer complete the spire. I have to knock back to only doing a single floor. - A update that reduces what we can do that drastically, i consider a failure.
Then there are the rewards themselves; specifically the Catalysts and a spell fragments. The first two weeks that i did the full spire, i got ZERO cats form the entire climb. Both weeks! ZERO. My second city, both weeks got ONE SINGLE CHEST. That is a 100% failure.
Now that iv been reduced to a single floor of the spire... i continue to usually see zero cats per weeks. In fact, i get more cats from tourney then i do from spire (tinlug.) Not that getting more then zero is a high bar to reach.
Also, on this new single floor crap i have been reduced to.. last week i also got ZERO spell frags on the entire first floor!! 0.o
WTH is going on?! ZERO cats, ZERO frags, Worse then zero time instants... What is the point of doing the spire at all?! At this point, i gain more by not doing the spire!
The whole point of the spire was for cats and frags. And the time instants let us keep up with it. Now they have all been 'cut'. Im getting zero or worse week to week. That is a failure in every way possible.
For the last few years i was able to complete the full spire, all 3 floors, every single week.
Since the change, accomplishing that seems like a pipe dream. The loss of the time instants is far more massive then inno led us to believe. I did the full spire the first two weeks after the change (for FA). Both weeks, on both cities, i didnt even get enough time instants to cover climbing the tower. Much less having any to use for my city. I was losing time instants massively over all. I was also losing far to many troops. Even with a military ready city. And now, no time instants to replenish troops. So completing the spire will become unsustainable very very quick.
So as a result, i will/can no longer complete the spire. I have to knock back to only doing a single floor. - A update that reduces what we can do that drastically, i consider a failure.
Then there are the rewards themselves; specifically the Catalysts and a spell fragments. The first two weeks that i did the full spire, i got ZERO cats form the entire climb. Both weeks! ZERO. My second city, both weeks got ONE SINGLE CHEST. That is a 100% failure.
Now that iv been reduced to a single floor of the spire... i continue to usually see zero cats per weeks. In fact, i get more cats from tourney then i do from spire (tinlug.) Not that getting more then zero is a high bar to reach.
Also, on this new single floor crap i have been reduced to.. last week i also got ZERO spell frags on the entire first floor!! 0.o
WTH is going on?! ZERO cats, ZERO frags, Worse then zero time instants... What is the point of doing the spire at all?! At this point, i gain more by not doing the spire!
The whole point of the spire was for cats and frags. And the time instants let us keep up with it. Now they have all been 'cut'. Im getting zero or worse week to week. That is a failure in every way possible.
TimeMachine
Well-Known Member
Maybe it is a failure, I don't know. At least it seems to be "wrong" in your eyes and mine as well.
To me it is pretty obvious that humans and elves should need doubled up pet food to finish spire with the help of their favourite pets and that InnoGames seems to be hoping to catch a good revenue by the enormous reduction of CCs, time boosters and diamonds.
Plus, for those who already got used to speed-climb the spire it feels like the former free-to-play range has become a lot smaller.
If your time boosters are empty and you want to open the next gate immediately, you will have to pay for it in future, because one cannot win enough time boosters and/or diamonds to do so without buying diamonds.
During the last weeks of playing, I have often asked myself if this is still just a game or even some kind of experimental laboratory for human and elven behaviour?
They are trying to "slowly" estimate a pure pay-to-play-faster feature, I guess.
I would bet a lot that they are analyzing global spire activity very precise at the moment.
That is, in my eyes, pretty clear because they seemed to change rewards in spire very often during the last weeks.
All that back and forth with the spire rewards reminds me a little of stock market prices.
I hope they will not destroy the whole thing by all this "balancing" in order to not crash the "game economy".
Me as a gambler would say: "If I should be motivated to place a higher bet, there has to be a higher jackpot or something like that.
Except some royals and the blueprints, I can now only see the higher bet needed to finish, combined with a lower jackpot.
Sounds funny, doesn't it?
I am stil pretty sure that they will not reach their estimated goals by this but of course I might be wrong.
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Dominionofgod
Thinker of Ideas
Oh they are.. at least for me. Inno isnt alone in switching to these kind of tactics. They are becoming used by quite a lot of businesses out there. Switching to these utterly 'annoying the person' tactic to get them to pay up to not be annoyed. -_- Yea... aint gonna happen with me. I just stopped using the service or uninstalled the game/app w/e it might be. Elvenar is the last one remaining for me. They keep it up, and it will join the list of crap i got rid of because of there practices.
Silly Bubbles
You cant pop them all
For me the main difference is the reduction in diamonds. So far I keep climbing to the top as before and haven't noticed any permanent differences in difficulty yet. I do like the addition of new stuff that puts some new excitement in like Eldian Sapphires and flower fields.
It's great that Elvenar made it to the top of the list.
It's great that Elvenar made it to the top of the list.
TimeMachine
Well-Known Member
Since it seems be the list of shaky candidates to maybe get rid of, I would rather say that it is sad that Elvenar has made it on that list, although it is the last one remaining.It's great that Elvenar made it to the top of the list.
iamthouth
Tetris Master
When I run out of time instants I can no longer do the double week. Which means I'll have to use the five day buildings each week, instead of every second. And also more pet food for the Twilight Phoenix and Tinlug. Or reduce tournament again to first two pages only, and maybe go back to cater spire.
Dhurrin
Well-Known Member
I can still make the top of the Spire each week. However, I find myself more and more wondering why I am doing so.
The amount of spellfrags I gain has indeed increased. Great for most players if that happens, but spellfrags aren't really a problem for me, so that increase is -for me- of no importance.
The amount of CCs has gotten more irregular, there have been chests with a pretty large number, and weeks where I got none. Though it averages out I find the irregularity annoying. Again, for me it doesn't really matter, but for several members of my FS it makes it a lot harder.
The reduction in time-boosters is an absolute disaster. If there had been a small reduction that would have been ok. But this is not a small reduction and it has a large impact on the rest of the gameplay. I'm one of the players who would do the first floor, then wait until I combine Spire and Tourney into one big setting, because that makes optimal use of the military booster buildings and the petfood for Firephoenix and Twilight Phoenix and Tinlug. However, that meant I ran through the 2nd and 3rd floor on one day, which uses quite a few time-boosters.
That was ok as the amount gained was substantially more than what I spent. If that's not the case, it no longer makes sense.
The loss of diamonds is a problem as well. The introduction of the sapphires is an ok changes, but I have been getting something like 20-30 of them a week. At that amount it will be something like 20-30 weeks before I can place one of the buildings of the last chapter. Yeah, well...that doesn't make it worth it to expend that many resources, whether that is goods for catering, or troops, as the 'spire squads' are ridiculously large, meaning even small percentage losses are very impactful.
For me the rewards basically no longer warrant the effort.
The amount of spellfrags I gain has indeed increased. Great for most players if that happens, but spellfrags aren't really a problem for me, so that increase is -for me- of no importance.
The amount of CCs has gotten more irregular, there have been chests with a pretty large number, and weeks where I got none. Though it averages out I find the irregularity annoying. Again, for me it doesn't really matter, but for several members of my FS it makes it a lot harder.
The reduction in time-boosters is an absolute disaster. If there had been a small reduction that would have been ok. But this is not a small reduction and it has a large impact on the rest of the gameplay. I'm one of the players who would do the first floor, then wait until I combine Spire and Tourney into one big setting, because that makes optimal use of the military booster buildings and the petfood for Firephoenix and Twilight Phoenix and Tinlug. However, that meant I ran through the 2nd and 3rd floor on one day, which uses quite a few time-boosters.
That was ok as the amount gained was substantially more than what I spent. If that's not the case, it no longer makes sense.
The loss of diamonds is a problem as well. The introduction of the sapphires is an ok changes, but I have been getting something like 20-30 of them a week. At that amount it will be something like 20-30 weeks before I can place one of the buildings of the last chapter. Yeah, well...that doesn't make it worth it to expend that many resources, whether that is goods for catering, or troops, as the 'spire squads' are ridiculously large, meaning even small percentage losses are very impactful.
For me the rewards basically no longer warrant the effort.
Dominionofgod
Thinker of Ideas
I 'can' make it to the top. At least until my time instants run out; which would be quick. There for i will not do that.
But agree with the sentiment that there is simply no point. As i mentioned in my earlier replies; im getting no cats, low/none frags, negative time boosters... im better off by not doing spire. So why bother? Aside from a few event quests, there is little to no point.
I will acknowledge the difference between something being a failure vs something that i simply dont like. Two different things there. Tho often could over lap. - I use the word 'failure' on this for a reason. Yea, i dont like it. But i dont like it BECAUSE i see it as a failure.
Two main points iv made in earlier replies, so i wont outline it all again.
1. Im getting no cats, no/low frags, and negative time boosters. Those were the whole reason for the introducing the spire to begin with. And the main reason for doing the spire. If were not getting them now.. whats the point?
And 2. The very simple fact that im not getting, or not getting enough, cats, frags, and time boosters, along with the cost of climbing the spire.. I end the day with more resources by NOT doing the spire then by completing the spire. - Being better off not participating in spire is the most blatant example of a 'failure' to me.
hvariidh gwendrot
Well-Known Member
spire is now a smelly ass crack on it's wost day, i am holding out hope the "spire shop" will soon be released and it will have something worthwhile to use, all these useless sapphire are really pissing me off, if the shop is another fail the spire participation is going to lose another chunk of particpants
Dhurrin
Well-Known Member
I do see the change as a failure, even if it may work as intended. But the result seems to be that more and more players struggle with managing resources. People like @Silly Bubbles will no doubt say that is fine and dandy and a challenge which makes the game 'more interesting'. However, when the struggle becomes so hard that the rewards are less than the effort one has to put into it, fewer and fewer players will actually do so, which makes it less interesting for other players as well as the chances of maxing out the group rewards drop when enough players find that it's an uneconomic activity.
Even in a game players will look at the ratio of invested resources vs the (possible) rewards, though in a game the factor of fun can be added in. But even so, there isn't a whole lot of fun to be derived from doing the battles in Elvenar; let's be honest about that, the battlesystem is nowhere near the most interesting part of the game. Players who enjoy doing battle oriented games can find tons of games that offer far more in that aspect.
In fact, I don't know any player in Elvenar who has stated that he climbed the Spire just because of the fun of doing battles. There are a few who like the negotiating system, but by far most players I know do the Spire for the rewards they gain from it. A lot are now just going through the new system, seeing what the longer-term rewards are going to be like. But when the rewards no longer are worth the effort for a longer period of time, they will very likely just either do less of it, or stop doing it.
It's like supporting a local store; sure, the prices may be a bit higher than at the large chains, but a lot of people will do so anyway because they like the local store, or like the way they produce things. But if the prices are going to be 3x, 4x higher, that support will soon drop. So too with the Spire; if the 'rewards' are being dropped so much it is like increasing the cost.
(edited for typo's)
Silly Bubbles
You cant pop them all
Some players will stop playing the Spire and that's fine, there's no point of doing something that we don't enjoy and focus more on things that we do enjoy. I can see that some players take this game as a job and that's not good for enjoyment. Stepping back and get the enjoyment back is a good thing. This keeps players playing and not leaving because they're burnt out.
I personally won't stop doing Spire mainly because of the diamonds. Ok, there's less of them but there are still some. I'm not going to miss out on diamonds because of few extra time instants.
I personally won't stop doing Spire mainly because of the diamonds. Ok, there's less of them but there are still some. I'm not going to miss out on diamonds because of few extra time instants.
Dhurrin
Well-Known Member
I understand that, but there is another problem there.
In a FS there need to be enough participating players reaching the top in order to unlock the gold-rewards. To do so the FS needs 1.330 points or more. That means about 18-20 players reaching the top (at the 63 point max/player). Maybe 15 to the top and the rest scoring less but enough to get to that total, but it basically needs the entire FS to do pretty well. But at only 15 getting to the top it already becomes a bit iffy.
So if the rewards are not deemed worth it by enough players the ones who do feel it is worth it may still no longer even try because they know that the gold rewards are not assured.
Silly Bubbles
You cant pop them all
I do expect and already see a shift in players.
hvariidh gwendrot
Well-Known Member
not playing parts of a game is like saying don't use the bishops in chess, or not using the 2/5 tile in domino, it's incorporated in to the flow of the game...spire was designed to acquire rewards to help advance the city, which has more and more diminishing returns for play time, which everyone seems to agree on and losing more and more players which everyone seems to agree with, how about fix it so it's worth doing advice and try helping save the game vs giving inane advice like "just don't play parts of the game"
Silly Bubbles
You cant pop them all
If there was a need to do it all then most of the players would walk out. I'm definitely not doing it all. There is no need to do it all to enjoy the game or for it to be profitable.
Dominionofgod
Thinker of Ideas
i actually like that chess analogy. I learned chess around 12ish. My brother is 5 years older. And at that age, 5 years is huge! 12-17. So he was always able to win against me. So one day he started doing just what you said. Every time he would win, the next match he would remove one of his pieces and wed play again.
But this comment some are making of 'just dont do the spire' is foolish imo. Once upon a time such a thing might have been an option. But inno went to specific lengths to make everything integrated as possible in order to make everyone participate it. Just stopping one section of the game is like ripping out wrong bricks in a jinga tower. Do it and everything comes falling down. - In theory now.. the spire is supposed to provide catalysts and spell frags. Spire is supposed to be the top supplier of both. With that removed, it has effects well part jsut not doing spire. Cant upgrade aw's at all. Crafting will die out. Fighters that rely on the 50% bonus exp buildings will suffer form no crafting; and thus there tourney results will also drop. Tourney rewards dropping will again have an effect on everything... it goes on and on. Its all interconnected now. Removing one can be disastrous.
hvariidh gwendrot
Well-Known Member
bubbles seems to think that saying or rephrasing the same stupid comment over and over makes it less stupid, it wont it's a stupid comment