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    Your Elvenar Team

User Interface Spire & Coin/tool instants

BrinDarby

Active Member
Suggestion :
Just as in many other places in Elvenar where diamonds are a possible
remidy, many have other options.... Therefore when you are in the Spire,
and you need to use tools or coins but you dont have enuff, you should
have the option of using Instants rather than diamonds only....

Even if you try and have enough for each cater, when you go to choose
tools/coins and it appears in red and you can only use diamonds....
ALL the goods/tools/coins you already spent get wiped out if you don't
wanna use diamonds, but use the instants you have in your inventory.

You have to back out and re-enter, and thus re-choose that cater and pay
additional goods, when you should never have had to....

Please allow players to use coin/tool instants, if necessary, in The Spire.
 

ajqtrz

Well-Known Member
Or one can do as I do since I cater the whole thing: check your levels before you cater. It's easy as all you have to do is hover over the icon for that resource and it will tell you how much you have. I use a 5:1 minimum. I won't cater if I have less than 5 times what's needed per each cater attempt. So if I have 12000 steel and it asks for 2500, I stop, and get some steel. Not sure if the game should change or if we should expect people to think about what they are doing more before they do it.

Just a suggestion.

AJ
 

Darielle

Well-Known Member
Or one can do as I do since I cater the whole thing: check your levels before you cater. It's easy as all you have to do is hover over the icon for that resource and it will tell you how much you have. I use a 5:1 minimum. I won't cater if I have less than 5 times what's needed per each cater attempt. So if I have 12000 steel and it asks for 2500, I stop, and get some steel. Not sure if the game should change or if we should expect people to think about what they are doing more before they do it.

Just a suggestion.

AJ
People do think about it; they aren't stupid. This is not a case of lack of intelligence. But there are many people who do not want to have to back out of the spire to check their supplies after every chest they win. Some people would prefer to do a whole room at once, all four chests. And if you do that, even with 10x supply capacity, there are times when you withdrew more than you realized. No one wants to have a calculator with them when they go into the spire. And yes, I can do the math in my head. That's not the issue. This is the kind of great idea that makes that unnecessary. This is a game ... it should be fun.

Brin, I actually like this idea. I guess we can find common ground after all, lol.
 

NightshadeCS

Well-Known Member
You don't have to exit the spire to check. Hovering over each request shows you your stock level:
I would suggest an improvement to that tool tip, as well, that it show your available out of your max for tools and coins. I don't have that information readily available in my brain, and sometimes my decision on what to offer the spirits is based on what I have more of relative to the other.

I also like the original suggestion.
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
I would suggest an improvement to that tool tip, as well, that it show your available out of your max for tools and coins
I feel like that's an unnecessary change. Max supplies is always 1/10 of max coins, so all you need to do is throw out the last digit from coins and you can directly compare which you have more of (as a share of total capacity):

1596754203837.png
3941 > 3757
 

T6583

Well-Known Member
I like the suggestion. It would make things easier for a lot of players and I don’t see a downside to it outside of coding. Even though I typically check using the hover method there are times that I forget to or think I have enough and end up needing to back out or hope that I don’t actually need that good if I’ve already started. There are also times when I back out and get distracted by something and forget to go back in which I’m turn can through off my timing and then I have to use time instants which I prefer to save for other things.
[edited for spelling errors]
 
Last edited:

BrinDarby

Active Member
The odds of 1 cater being planks, tools, tools, tools, tools... is low, but it does happen.....
I made sure I had 3+ of everything, but ya never know the above might happen, and why use a tools instant ahead of time if you don't have to, so thats why it should be a choice, just like opening a force shield...... time instant or diamonds.....I use the tooltip, and inbetween caters if I need more I go get more, but inside 1 cater, no.... you shouldn't have to back out just to use an instant.
 

ajqtrz

Well-Known Member
@BrinDarby Yeah, the chances of it being all tools (or anything else) is slim, but that's why I make sure I have 5 times over that of which it asks.

@Ashrem Thanks for the clarification. "Tool tip" is something I can never remember to call it.

On the other hand, one down side is that it will reduce revenues. Naturally, if you can use instants you can avoid using diamonds and that means less revenues. I really don't expect, for that reason, to see this implemented nor think it's a good idea. We all like to avoid spending diamonds and there is already an easy remedy for the need to know, so why add the cost of implementation AND in doing so reduce diamond spending? You may not care if Inno doesn't make as much money, but in the long run the more they cut revenues the less they make and the closer they get to saying, "this thing is not worth it." I once spent 5 years building my "empire" in another game and was the top player leading the top alliance on my server. Then, due to "not making enough," they shut the whole thing down. The game had been around about 20 years but the players kept demanding ways to NOT spend and in the end all my effort was lost. We do need to consider the health of the game from Inno's perspective and thus, this would hurt revenues so I'm against.

AJ
 

BrinDarby

Active Member
@ajqtrz , when Inno bypass's many ways to increase revenue, then you can't say thats a con here... but lets explore that...
if your premise holds water, then eliminate every place in the game where another option is given other than diamonds !!!!
Are you really saying doing that ???? like stopping the use of time instants OR diamonds to open a force shield locked by a timer ????
howabout no use of those same instants in the MagicAcademy or cooldown for a tourn province....

So no, if its such a detriment to overall revenue, then every single place where there is a choice for anything other than diamonds... needs to be eliminated, and I know that can't be what you want.....

There's tons of places/ways to increase revenue that are being ignored, but there are more than a few examples where an Instant is a viable option to diamonds already, so it must not be such a revenue drain as you say...
BrinD
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
when Inno bypass's many ways to increase revenue, then you can't say thats a con here...
The problem is, they want cons listed in the ideas. If there's nothing listed, sometimes the moderators just insert some they made up that aren't really cons, so you might as well make some up first......
 

PaNonymeB

Well-Known Member
I think a "con" can be coding time. Using coin/supply instants instead of diamonds doesn't exist anywhere else in the game. And the way coin/supply instants work isn't the same as time/AWKP instants work (the former are used from Inventory while the latter are filling a bar you can else fill with diamonds.) And it would require displaying different things depending whether good is missing. So I can imagine coding time could be quite significant.
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
I think a "con" can be coding time. Using coin/supply instants instead of diamonds doesn't exist anywhere else in the game.
You can use coins/supply instants instead of diamonds anywhere, including in Spire negotiations, it's just that you have to use them ahead of time instead of on the fly. An important difference is that multi-layer nature of Spire negotiations are unique in the game. There's nowhere else in the game that you have to commit to several consecutive sequential actions without being able to return to your city to use the instants, so I think they deserve a little extra attention for this case.
And the way coin/supply instants work isn't the same as time/AWKP instants work (the former are used from Inventory while the latter are filling a bar you can else fill with diamonds.) And it would require displaying different things depending whether good is missing. So I can imagine coding time could be quite significant.
I disagree completely. There are only two things that can be filled with instants, coins and supplies, and even then you still don't need a different activator for each. All you need is one button that takes you to your instants, then you can fill coins, supplies, or both. The code to call the inventory with either a button or a key-press is already present in the game, and the results don't have any effect on the encounter itself, nor do they require any information about the state of the encounter, they are simply adjusting levels on hand, with no reference to the encounter. Adding a call to it in the spire encounter screen is trivial.
 

ajqtrz

Well-Known Member
@ajqtrz , when Inno bypass's many ways to increase revenue, then you can't say thats a con here... but lets explore that...
if your premise holds water, then eliminate every place in the game where another option is given other than diamonds !!!!
Are you really saying doing that ???? like stopping the use of time instants OR diamonds to open a force shield locked by a timer ????
howabout no use of those same instants in the MagicAcademy or cooldown for a tourn province....

So no, if its such a detriment to overall revenue, then every single place where there is a choice for anything other than diamonds... needs to be eliminated, and I know that can't be what you want.....

There's tons of places/ways to increase revenue that are being ignored, but there are more than a few examples where an Instant is a viable option to diamonds already, so it must not be such a revenue drain as you say...
BrinD
You are right, there are tons of places you can use coin instants instead of diamonds. And if the devs did make all those places where you can only use diamonds such that you could use instants instead, revenues would drop, probably significantly. My argument is not that I wish them to drop all those places and force us to use diamonds everywhere they can, but that adding another place to the list of places where we can substitute what constitutes in game currency for real revenues may drop the revenues enough to cause other problems. Like slower development, no development, or even shutting the game down because it is not profitable enough to justify the effort expended. The balance means that in some places you will need to use diamonds and in some, not. Only the devs know where and when such changes can and should be made, but we can surmise that, assuming the game is currently profitable enough to continue development, they have already achieved some level of balance between the use of in game currency and the "real" currency they need to operate. Asking them to change that formula may mean removing that balance. As I said, having gone through that scenario before and I'd rather the company have more profit than less for that reason. The change asks them to take less profit and I am not comfortable with that.

Finally I do think it's not a bad idea to ask for it. Asking is not demanding and the devs are probably able to figure out the balance without my help, so I guess I could see this more positively and ignore my discomfort and support it. In other words, shock of shocks, I've changed my mind. ;>)

AJ
 

BrinDarby

Active Member
@ajqtrz ,
lets say you miss on 3rd try, in spire and you get the popup for using diamonds.....
you must answer that question 1st, you cannot check to see if you have enough resources...
while I might pay 25 diamonds for another choice, I prolly won't if I know I also have to
pay more diamonds cause I'm 200 short in tools... but @ that point you cannot even check.
The UI itself causes this problem

Because the time instants are used so widely, its potentially safe to say ( yes assume ) that "instants" in general,
have basic uses.... time/troop/coin/tools/ect ect ect .... so to me it seems counterproductive for 1 instant to be
basically overused and 1 underused ...

I agree with you that there needs to be balance, but in the above case, there is no way to solve that from
occurring, unless something changes.... It certainly doesn't say " would you like to buy another turn for 25 diamonds,
but you also don't have the required goods to complete and you must pay more diamonds.... do you want to continue? "

100000%, the law of unintended consequences needs to be taken into account.... and personally I can say, as a former
programmer, that todays programmers are not as focused as they should be to prevent these from occurring.. Thats
more for a discussion on the state of the universities and how they teach coding.........

So I agree that lowering revenue is not good, but if the ways revenue is generated could be done alot better
and in more ways, that would allow something like this, that seems unfair to all players, to get tweaked without
any revenue loss to the server.

I agree with your post, I also hope you can see that by giving away gillions of time instants, they gotta have ways to use them.
In this case tho, thats directly avoiding paying diamonds is most cases when they are used.
BrinD