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    Your Elvenar Team

Spire Of Eternity - Any 'Convince' Suggestions?

I can get so far up the Spire Of Eternity with my fighters, but really the only way to get to the top is to Convince the spirits to let me go by.

But the one time I nearly made it to the top I had to spend so much Diamonds, which was a waste since I had to wait 7 hours for that shield to drop on the last night but by the time I did get back it was over!

I can't afford the Diamonds. Are there an suggestions for Convincing the spirits before I run out of Turns? I'd love to get a Magical Workshop one of these weeks and the Dwarven Armory...
 

Myne

Oh Wise One
The new spire wizard that was introduced recently is a good bet. Just google spire wizard.
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
1) watch MinMax spire runs for CH3 or 4 players. ( on youtube )
2) Stop spending diamonds
3) get good @ 2 and 3 choices ( +coins/tools )
4) if u get 0 right on turn 1, back out and try again.
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
My best advice is to never, ever spend diamonds unless it's a door guy and only if you are positive that 25 diamonds will assure a win. If it's the big boss at the top, I may modify that to 50 diamonds, but I never spend more than half the diamonds that I know I will earn that week.

The following is what I have observed in my experience. I can't prove any of it, but it has worked for me for the past 18 months:

Always offer coins and supplies in the first round. They are statistically more likely to be wanted than any other supply. On the lower levels, lower cost goods are more likely to be wanted. On the upper levels, more often they want the costly goods. More often does not mean always, so you'll still find yourself wrong sometimes, but overall, this works.

Do not be afraid to withdraw and lose goods. You will lose a heck of a lot less goods by withdrawing after the first round and trying again, than if you keep plugging away. Of course, there are exceptions. If you have a ton of the items that they are asking for, go ahead and try again. You might get lucky. But don't throw away the goods that are precious to you on a hopeless cause.

Let's start with an example. There are five different goods at play: marble, steel, gems, crystal and scrolls.

Spirit one gets marble and says "nobody needs it."
Spirit two gets steel and says "wrong person"
Spirit three gets gems and gets it right with a green check mark.
Spirit four gets crystal and says "wrong person"
Spirit five gets scrolls and says "wrong person"

In round two, you know that

spirit one needs either steel, gems, crystal or scrolls
Spirit two needs either gems, crystal or scrolls
spirit four needs either gems, steel or scrolls
spirit five needs either gems, steel or crystal

The items that you KNOW are needed by someone are steel, crystal and scrolls. Gems is a "maybe," not a sure thing, so don't give that to anyone in round two. You're trying to eliminate items in round two, so stick with the ones you know are needed, not the ones that are "maybe" items.

Therefore, in round two, go only with steel, crystal and scrolls

Let's say that spirit one gets steel and says "wrong person"
spirit two gets crystal and gets a green check mark
spirit four gets scrolls and says "wrong person
spirit five gets steel and gets a green check mark.

Now, you have just easily won, because in round three you know that scrolls and steel are the only ones left, and spirit one needs scrolls and spirit four needs steel.

But what if round two had played out differently? What if this had happened instead:

Spirit one gets steel and says "wrong person"
Spirit two gets crystal and says "wrong person"
Spirit four gets scrolls and says "wrong person
spirit five gets steel and gets a green check mark

Well, in this case you still know that gems was eliminated, since there are three people and three different items left: steel, crystal and scrolls. We can determine who gets what for round three.

We know for a fact that spirit two will need scrolls, since he's already had steel and crystal
Spirit one cannot use the steel, so he must use the crystal.
Spirit four needs the steel.

In this second scenario, it was also an easy win

Now of course, things won't always be this easy. if you are at the end of the second round and you have a much worse mix with little chance of winning in the third round, then withdraw and start over, hoping for easy wins like the ones above. But first and foremost, ALWAYS go for "nobody needs it" rather than green check marks in the first round. That's my golden rule that I never break. In the higher chapters, go for at least two. With the big boss at the top, go for at least three on the first round.

It's late and I'm sleepy, so if I've messed up on my items, mea culpa. Anyway, as Edward R Murrow used to say, "Good night and good luck."
 

Rp44

Active Member
Darielle gives fantastic information on this topic. :) My strategy is just slightly different, but also based only on my own experience playing the spire in several cities each week. Most of my cities take a hybrid approach to the spire, but I have two tiny cities that fully cater because I love it.

*Definitely watch MinMax's tutorials if you can, especially if you are a visual learner

*I fully agree with Darielle on diamond usage. The exception would be if you have surplus diamonds and using them in the spire is the use that brings you the most joy. I have also used them occasionally when an encounter asked for a lot of sentient goods already, I know I'll get it right on the next turn, and I can't face possibly using that amount of sentients again. ;-)

*Don't be afraid to back out and start again, as already mentioned. I have a tendency to back out after the second guess more often than the first, especially on the second floor, because a lot of times you can learn enough in the second guess to finish the encounter. But if you are always tempted to spend diamonds for one more turn, then backing out after the first guess might be better. :)

*For encounters with seven or more choices, I always leave out gold/tools on the first guess simply because they are wanted more often than the others. Elimination is the name of the game.

*Don't be afraid to put things where you know they don't go on the second guess. Elimination is the name of the game. Sometimes you know where one thing goes but you can use that spot to figure out something else.

*Besides gold/tools, I have never noticed the spirits wanting any goods more often than any others, especially when there are more goods to randomly pick from. My chapter 3 cities definitely use more T1, but that's a function of only having T1 and T2 to choose from in the pool. You might choose to offer things based on how relatively scarce they are to you, but the spirits don't care what you have more of, no matter how it may seem like that some weeks (and it definitely does seem like that some weeks).

I think that after awhile you'll get a feel for your own style. Good luck!
 

Myne

Oh Wise One
*I fully agree with Darielle on diamond usage. The exception would be if you have surplus diamonds and using them in the spire is the use that brings you the most joy. I have also used them occasionally when an encounter asked for a lot of sentient goods already, I know I'll get it right on the next turn, and I can't face possibly using that amount of sentients again.

What manner of hellish creature is this "surplus diamonds"?
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
Let's start with an example. There are five different goods at play: marble, steel, gems, crystal and scrolls.
did you forget coins & tools ???? so isn't that 7 choices ?

3 resources .... Marble , Steel , Silk ( + coins/tools ) is 5 choices.
6 resources/things ( + coins/tools ) = 8 choices ( lvl 3 boss )

When I said nothing right on the 1st try, I'm saying just that ....
wp, wp, nn, nn, wp / nn, nn, nn, nn, nn / wp, wp, wp, wp, wp,
all 3 examples, and I'm backing out after 1 try.

Lets say I need 3+2 ... so Marble, Steel, Crystal, Coins, Tools.
1st try will always leave out coins/tools, so I'll pick say ...
marble, crystal, steel, crystal, marble......
.....nn............wp........nn.........:crystal:...........nn.......
2nd try might be :
crystal, tools, crystal, ............, coins
....:crystal:.........nn..........wp.......................:coin:
therefore the last 2 will be a "lock".....
.........., crystal, coins, ............, ..............
.................:crystal:..........:coin:....................................

Basically I want 1 right on try 1, 1/2 more on try 2, and a mix of nn/wp
so that for try 3.... one of them is known and that locks the other 1/2
into thier right spot..... ( hopefully )
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
did you forget coins & tools ???? so isn't that 7 choices ?
She didn't, she was simply giving a 5 resource lesson/example. Should have been coin,s tools + 3 more , but could have been apples, oranges, bananas, goats, and cheese. The lesson remains the same.
wp, wp, nn, nn, wp / nn, nn, nn, nn, nn / wp, wp, wp, wp, wp,
all 3 examples, and I'm backing out after 1 try.
That's a mistake. If there are 7 choices then
If you get 5x nn then everyone becomes 50/50 so you 100% guaranteed win in 2 more guesses.
If you get 5x wp then you know for certain you need 1 of each. Very good odds of winning in 2 more guesses.
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
I clearly did not say 7 choices Soggy, give us all a break, read the posts.
did you forget coins & tools ???? so isn't that 7 choices ?

3 resources .... Marble , Steel , Silk ( + coins/tools ) is 5 choices.
6 resources/things ( + coins/tools ) = 8 choices ( lvl 3 boss )
When I said nothing right on the 1st try, I'm saying just that ....
wp, wp, nn, nn, wp / nn, nn, nn, nn, nn / wp, wp, wp, wp, wp,
all 3 examples, and I'm backing out after 1 try.
You mentioned 7, then 5, then 8. Read your own posts: Nothing was clear.
Regardless you also said that you bail out if you get "nn,nn,nn,nn,nn" which as I said is a terrible strategy.
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
@SoggyShorts ,

Lets say I need 3+2 ... so Marble, Steel, Crystal, Coins, Tools.
1st try will always leave out coins/tools, so I'll pick say ...
marble, crystal, steel, crystal, marble......
.....nn............wp........nn.........:crystal:...........nn.......
2nd try might be :
crystal, tools, crystal, ............, coins
....:crystal:.........nn..........wp.......................:coin:
therefore the last 2 will be a "lock".....
.........., crystal, coins, ............, ..............
.................:crystal:..........:coin:....................................

sure take it out of context will ya , thats exact quote..
I was VERY clear........
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
sure take it out of context will ya
How is it out of context when I quoted every word?:oops:

I mean think about it just al little...
You said you'd bail out after guess one if it was
nn,nn,nn,nn,nn

It doesn't matter if it's 6,7, or 8 choices, that result is excellent and backing out is a mistake.
If you get nn,nn,nn,nn,nn with 5 choices you should call support.

Whatever mate, I hope you learned something anyways. Not sure why we try to help you TBH :rolleyes:
 
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BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
That's the part I couldn't figure out! I thought maybe it was because I never convince and there was something I was missing in the discussion...
Sami , its possible to have it ask for just coins/tools , if then you choose 5 other things
the result will be (5) nn ... Also, since you know how some forum posters are.... any tiny
discrepencies will be pick'd apart down to the menucha, so to cover my butt, I included
the two non usuall ways to achieve 0 right on the 1st try..... ( (5) nn or (5) wp )

Rather than someone like Soggy working thru the logic, or asking me to show my logic,
you can see ( as usuall ) that was not the approach taken in responses to my post.

If I'm using criteria in my decisions that others are not, then its completely plausable
for others , not to see, the logic chains I am using.

Yet again , seems any civil discussion won't take place, that hurts everyone who might
gleam some help from it....... :rolleyes:
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
Yet again , seems any civil discussion won't take place, that hurts everyone who might
gleam some help from it....... :rolleyes:
This time it's on you. Instead of saying "I was clear, Give us a break soggy and read the posts" please just clarify.
I've been over it at least a dozen times and I see no way to interpret the following quote that makes sense. Please excuse the shortness of the quote, I'm not trying to take it out of context, I'm just putting focus on the part we don't understand:
When I said nothing right on the 1st try, I'm saying just that ....
wp, wp, nn, nn, wp / nn, nn, nn, nn, nn / wp, wp, wp, wp, wp,
all 3 examples, and I'm backing out after 1 try.
I honestly cannot come up with a scenario where you guess 5 different items on the first try, get "not needed" on all 5, and then should back out.
Getting 5x nn on your first guess is excellent, and backing out is a very bad idea.
its possible to have it ask for just coins/tools , if then you choose 5 other things
the result will be (5) nn
Correct me if I'm wrong, but
  1. In the above scenario are there 7 choices? (coins tools and "5 other"?)
  2. The spirits only want coins or tools, (but obv we can't know this yet)?
  3. You leave out coins and tools and guess 5 others?
  4. You get nn,nn,nn,nn,nn as a result?
That brings me right back to:
If you get 5x nn then everyone becomes 50/50 so you 100% guaranteed win in 2 more guesses.
Walk us through it, please. Instead of just telling me I'm wrong and you are right/clear, please explain the scenario where getting 5x nn is a bad thing.
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
Walk us through it, please. Instead of just telling me I'm wrong and you are right/clear, please explain the scenario where getting 5x nn is a bad thing.
If I'm conserving coins/tools , I therefore cannot spend potentially
10 combined tools/coins on just 1 encounter... best case is 5, worst case is 10.....

I do NOT use coins/tools on the 1st try, with 5 or more total choices....
 
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