Spire rules

[lili28]

It seems a little ridiculous to me when a fellowship is allowed to every week rotate players in and out in order to get gold in the spire. Seems like cheating by others but ok, didn’t effect our fellowship. But we enjoy the competition of the spire ranking page. So now, when teams go way over the score of 1575 (the max of 25 people reaching the top), so MORE than 25 members even getting to the top, it’s no longer a competition we can win if we don’t use alt accounts and just stick to our 25 members. There really should be a rule at the bare minimum that 1575 is the max a fellowship can get. But I would really like a rule that curbs the alt account rotation by locking who can score points for the fellowship at the start of the spire, just like FA are locked.

 

[Henroo]

Or Inno could just change it so that when a player leaves a fellowship, any FS points they had scored in the Spire are erased. The tournament already works this way. To be honest, I assumed the same held true for the Spire. I did not realize it was possible to rotate players in and out during a Spire cycle.

 

[Iyapo1]

This is very confusing and should be standardized. I would vote yes on this, it is just a question of whether it should be tournament locked or FA locked. Either way, the top score should be locked.

 

[Alpha Lyrae]

Hmm. We were just lamenting the loss of points in the Spire when a player leaves (edit: or so we thought we remembered). Is this really possible? I checked the 3 worlds I play in and none have scores even up to 1575. (Arendyl, Winyandor & Khelonaar)

Edit: That's not to say this isn't happening. I'm very interested to see if others are seeing the same thing!

 

[Henroo]

Hmm. We were just lamenting the loss of points in the Spire when a player leaves. Is this really possible? I checked the 3 worlds I play in and none have scores even up to 1575. (Arendyl, Winyandor & Khelonaar)

Huh. We play the exact same 3 worlds!

 

[Iyapo1]

Hmm. We were just lamenting the loss of points in the Spire when a player leaves. Is this really possible? I checked the 3 worlds I play in and none have scores even up to 1575. (Arendyl, Winyandor & Khelonaar)

I just checked Elcy and Harander. Nothing there either.

 

[Kekune]

Yes, this is possible. My group has a sister group, and we've had folks change mid-spire once or twice. (We're not using it to get gold, and normally avoid disrupting spire play.) Points stay in the fellowship where they were earned, and the player gets rewards for the fellowship they're in when spire ends.

 

[Alpha Lyrae]

Thanks for confirming @Kekune ! I can see both sides. On one hand, if you're the fellowship and counting on a player's score to reach gold then it's frustrating to lose their points when they earned them while in the fellowship. As the player, I can understand wanting to take the points you earned to the new fellowship you're in.

 

[lili28]

Here’s a screenshot of this last week. Our fellows reached the top with no changing members but we are number 2. We have watched different fellowships rotate members in and out for months. I like henroos suggestion even better.

 

[Kekune]

I think it should change. Either do it tournament style, where the points just disappear if you leave the group. Or do it FA- style, where contributions still count for the group if someone leaves, but newcomers can't join the group activity mid- event.

 

[Henroo]

Thanks for confirming @Kekune ! I can see both sides. On one hand, if you're the fellowship and counting on a player's score to reach gold then it's frustrating to lose their points when they earned them while in the fellowship. As the player, I can understand wanting to take the points you earned to the new fellowship you're in.

I have been in a fellowship where a player rage-quit near the end of a tournament. It was over what I consider to be a stupid misunderstanding and I think had the player communicated and asked for clarification over comments made in group chat that the whole situation was avoidable. But since that did not happen, that player's points immediately disappeared and suddenly the chest we had already secured was still up for grabs. We had to do a mini-push in the last day to make up for the points lost when that player quit and get the chest back.

 

[mucksterme]

The top five scores in Fely this week were :
1604, 1575, 1554, 1459, 1411
And I'd be willing to bet none of them used this exploit.
My FS doesn't get gold every week but we have regular push weeks and have never failed. We never do any player switches.

I'm really surprised at the whole thing.
At first I didn't even understand what you were talking about.
I find it odd that someone even came up with this.
And I find it truly amazing that there are people out there monitoring other FS' memberships.

 

[samidodamage]

1604

But something has to be off about that score; whether or not it was intentionally switching out players, who knows? (My bet: now we'll start seeing it on all the servers!) The fact is that the absolute most one player can get going to the top of the Spire is 63pts. 25x63=1575 So, more than 25 players made it to the top of the Spire in that FS this week.
Rank is important to some players/FS's. While I wouldn't have caught it, I can absolutely see how FS's that are going for rank in the Spire would know that when all 25 of them reach the top it's 1575pts. They wouldn't have to be tracking anything to see an FS exceeded those points so they must have had more than 25 players at the top of the Spire that week. And at that point, yep, can absolutely see where they'd start looking to see how they were doing it...
I'm not sure Inno will do anything to change it, though. If they capped it at 1575, then they'd have to rank them in order of which one reached it first. Then every FS going for rank would be finishing the Spire the first day(if not the first few hours!). That wouldn't mesh too well with their goal to have players logging in/playing more often. It probably would increase use of diamonds (to power through quickly), so maybe...

 

[Nomar831]

The top five scores in Fely this week were :
1604, 1575, 1554, 1459, 1411
And I'd be willing to bet none of them used this exploit.

How much would you be willing to bet?

The maximum number of points a fellowship can get in the Spire when all the members make it to the top is 1,575 (we work hard to do that every week). When a FS gets more than 1,575 points, this means that one or more players that scored points in the Spire left and other players joined and also scored points. When a fellowship scores 1,604 points, it kinda makes the players in the fellowship that works hard to get 1,575 points curious and maybe want to go monitor that FS' memberships.

When the FS that works hard to earn the 1,575 points (and 1st place every week for 35 weeks in a row) finds that the cheating FS is swapping players in and out every week and that this week they decided to cheat their way to 1st place, it kinda pisses off the players in the FS that works hard and makes them want to start a forum thread in the hopes that Inno sees it and puts a stop to the cheating, just like they did with the FA.

BTW, I think you owe me some money

 

[mucksterme]

But something has to be off about that score; whether or not it was intentionally switching out players, who knows? (My bet: now we'll start seeing it on all the servers!) The fact is that the absolute most one player can get going to the top of the Spire is 63pts. 25x63=1575 So, more than 25 players made it to the top of the Spire in that FS this week.

OK I done been learned something. I didn't do the math.
I am surprised though. I won't say the name of the FS but they have long been #1 on the server.
Silly me, I just assumed a group like that would have more pride.
Maybe this explains why they don't do well in the FA.
They haven't found any shortcuts.


So I assume it works like this:
They start the week with one or more dummy accounts.
The dummies race to the top and then are replaced with the major accounts.
Yes?
So tell me this, do the accounts that leave before the end of the week get any of the weekly rewards?

When the FS that works hard to earn the 1,575 points (and 1st place every week for 35 weeks in a row) finds that the cheating FS is swapping players in and out every week and that this week they decided to cheat their way to 1st place, it kinda pisses off the players in the FS that works hard and makes them want to start a forum thread in the hopes that Inno sees it and puts a stop to the cheating, just like they did with the FA.

Yes normally I don't much care about this sort of "cheating." Since it doesn't really cost other players anything. Unlike the FA where top finishers get better prizes. But I can see from your description how that could pez someone off.

BTW, I think you owe me some money

I never said what the bet was.
Enjoy those nice artistic "boudoir" photos of Soggy I sent you.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I the very first week on the german server fellowship(s) got well over 3500 points using this.
There is no competition in the spire, at least you can get nothing from placing first of 100th.

Gold is gold, it doesnt matter if you get 1330 points of 33330 points it's all the same.
It seems because of that reason they do not really care about this, and neither should you.

Gold is gold, thats the only important matter.

 

[lili28]

Than why bother having a ranking page if gold is gold. It’s something our crew has enjoyed being competitive with, just like personal high scores, because inno tracks it. And it would be simple to fix it like they do tournaments and FA.

 

[lili28]

So I assume it works like this:
They start the week with one or more dummy accounts.
The dummies race to the top and then are replaced with the major accounts.
Yes?
So tell me this, do the accounts that leave before the end of the week get any of the weekly rewards?

Doesn’t have to start the week but at some point toward the beginning, multiple non fellowship members rotate in and out to score, all within about an hour, when I watched. Elvenstats doesn’t always refresh that often but some of the record is there. Those accounts do not get anything from the spire, and then the main account comes back in and does spire and stays.

Not affecting us when they kept it below the max it should be, but when we have had it a rule for 35 weeks to finish to the top because we like that ranking, and that method can usurp us? Yeah sour grapes this week.

 

[BrinDarby]

Cheating is cheating, and thats cheating.....

 

[AtaguS]

This happened in one of my fellowships a few times and it took us a while to figure it out. A couple players had left after the tournament, and then a new player came in before the close of the Spire, and climbed to the top. The players who left didn't get any of the spire rewards, but we got a bump in score. I can see where this leaves a hole for cheaters to swoop in and take advantage. But I also think it would be a blow to fellowships who lose members before the end - and then cannot replace those players quickly enough - to lose out on the spire points. Tough one.