Spire rules

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Than why bother having a ranking page if gold is gold. It’s something our crew has enjoyed being competitive with, just like personal high scores, because inno tracks it. And it would be simple to fix it like they do tournaments and FA.

Ranking predates the gold/silver/bronze medal qualification.
It exists for 1 reason and 1 reason alone. to help you find a fellowship that matches your playstyle.

If you want a fellowship that reaches gold, you want to look for one that already has it, or that is close enough to soon get it.
If you hate the spire, you look for a "bronze" or lower felloship.

It's a guide to assist you in your search, again it's the only "ranking" that has not a single prize attached to it. this because for 1 simple fact.
The spire is, and cannot be a ranked event since it has a very hard limit (if you do not circumvent it) of 1575 points.

If it was a ranked event it would be either:

• require beaing creative / "cheating"
• Be a battle who reaches 1575 the fastest?

In the later case, it would be a battle of minutes? it just does not make any sense.
This is why there is a "ranking" for search purposes but not for prize or glory (like the fellowship / individual ranking)
It in no wat entices you to spend "money" on it.

It would be like the ranking people invented between fellowships internationally where fellowships battled out the who can get the biggest 400K+ fellowship tournament monster score. 10 chests was 10 chests (and today 19 is 19) it doesnt matter if you get it 1 time of 50 times in a single event. the outcome is the same.

 

[Kekune]

If you want a fellowship that reaches gold, you want to look for one that already has it, or that is close enough to soon get it.

But swapping people out messes this up. If you see that a group earns gold, you can't know for certain how much help the current players had to get there. There's a big difference between a group that does gold legitimately and a group that hits it because they're counting 30 players scores instead of 25.

 

[edeba]

But swapping people out messes this up. If you see that a group earns gold, you can't know for certain how much help the current players had to get there. There's a big difference between a group that does gold legitimately and a group that hits it because they're counting 30 players scores instead of 25.

Only need 1330 for gold, so I don't get the reason/issue/purpose for subbing in players to beat the 1575 ceiling. We had around 24 weeks where everyone went to the top and there was a week in there where someone left and had quite a bit of the spire and someone came in that hadn't and we exceeded the 1575.

I like that people can change a FS in the middle of the spire and as long as they play in their new FS they do not lose their progress or rewards.

I also think it is a problem if you didn't get the points and are working as a team and you lose a player when it is close and close to the end and it could cost you gold.

Perhaps the solution is to only count the top 25 scores, then it can not be artificially inflated by exploiting this problem, and the top score can not exceed the 1575.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

But swapping people out messes this up. If you see that a group earns gold, you can't know for certain how much help the current players had to get there. There's a big difference between a group that does gold legitimately and a group that hits it because they're counting 30 players scores instead of 25.

You forget that i can be a tool.

For example: on another account then my main account we got gold for the first time, then a lot more people seem to be willing to make that jump to the top since the main prize is gauranteed.

Looking at that principle, if that last jump is a tough barrier, swapping in a few accounts to guarantee gold might be just the last push you need to make that jump to a stable gold on there own power fellowship.
Many players spend a few diamonds to reach the top, they do not mind that as long as that diamond prize is guarenteed. it's a tough barrier to overcome.

It's not all that bad.

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

hilarious, but for those with 18 cities and no life i see the attraction of rotating in cities for the rewards if the game lets them collect them .. is it fair ? no, but i've never cared if others have push accounts or no life outside of finding workarounds to game the game structures

edit add... having some fun in fellowship chat with motivations, group think came up with >>>if these are real people, say map neighbors, trading friendlies, acquaintances from here and there, then that's groovy to dish out extra diamonds, otherwise seems a bit rat in a maze rolling through push accts

 

[ajqtrz]

It can't be "cheating" if is allowed by the rules. On the other hand, it would be fun to see how high you could go. The spire can be done in a single day (or even a hour or so if you cater). So 25 players on day 1, 25 on day 2 and so on.....that's a lot of potential points a 63 per player. LOL.

Overall I can see an occasional gold level fs going over 1575 simply because some players do finish the thing the first day and if one of them leaves an another payer shows up who hasn't done the Spire that week... add 63 to 1575. But, in my opinion, if it happens all the time it's probably just exploiting what is allowed, and that's probably not a good thing as it undermines the sense of an even playing field in some ways.

Just a passing thoght.

AJ

 

[Iyapo1]

The spire can be done in a single day (or even a hour or so if you cater).

I am going to have to try this now<sigh>. It's good to have goals. Thanks AJ.

 

[lili28]

Ranking predates the gold/silver/bronze medal qualification.
It exists for 1 reason and 1 reason alone. to help you find a fellowship that matches your playstyle.

I’m assuming that is your opinion and Inno has not said that is the “1 reason and 1 reason alone.” Just like personal ranking, just like the international tournament ranking as you say, they don’t have to have a PRIZE to deemed worthy of competing for. Just like no one really cares about the separate measly prize for getting number 1 in the FA, but it’s fun for some to compete for. And yes, many of the people in my fellowship race to do the spire in one day, and race to get the fellowship to the top quickly (not me, I have to finish it slower). But you seem to be making a lot of assumptions for OTHER people over what rankings should matter or not.
And if it’s not against the rules and not something they change, well, than I hope a lot more fellowships are aware of that loophole now so it levels the playing field.

 

[Nomar831]

It seems because of that reason they do not really care about this, and neither should you.

I'm not sure who put you in charge of what people should or shouldn't care about, but maybe you should quit that job and they should get fired.

If let's say a Crazy Wizard likes to dress like a Crazy Witch on the weekends, no one should care because it doesn't affect anyone else except for the Crazy Wizard. But when a group of people that have been working hard and competing to get 1st place in anything for 35 weeks in a row, all of the sudden come in 2nd place because another group of people cheated to get 1st, they tend to care about it. The only reason rankings exist in anything, is so that people can compete to get the best rankings.

I never said what the bet was.
Enjoy those nice artistic "boudoir" photos of Soggy I sent you.

No that's ok you can keep them, bets off lol

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I’m assuming that is your opinion and Inno has not said that is the “1 reason and 1 reason alone.” Just like personal ranking, just like the international tournament ranking as you say, they don’t have to have a PRIZE to deemed worthy of competing for. Just like no one really cares about the separate measly prize for getting number 1 in the FA, but it’s fun for some to compete for. And yes, many of the people in my fellowship race to do the spire in one day, and race to get the fellowship to the top quickly (not me, I have to finish it slower). But you seem to be making a lot of assumptions for OTHER people over what rankings should matter or not.
And if it’s not against the rules and not something they change, well, than I hope a lot more fellowships are aware of that loophole now so it levels the playing field.

With the 1575 hard barrier there is no competition.
If.. you could not "cheat the system" this is a very hard fixed barrier you cannot breach.
That why each opf you gets a gold medal, as it does not make a difference.

I am certain that if they had came up with the bronze/silver/gold medal before release we would not even have a "ranking" list.

There "(un)official" response when they were pointed at the 3500+ score in the first week on the german server was.
"we do not care" as this is not supposed to be a ranked event. you "gain" nothing by placing first.

This is somthing they could have easily "fixed", and they are aware of the situation from day one, and were are well past the 1 year introduction mark.
What does this tell you?

I'm not sure who put you in charge of what people should or shouldn't care about, but maybe you should quit that job and they should get fired.

If let's say a Crazy Wizard likes to dress like a Crazy Witch on the weekends, no one should care because it doesn't affect anyone else except for the Crazy Wizard. But when a group of people that have been working hard and competing to get 1st place in anything for 35 weeks in a row, all of the sudden come in 2nd place because another group of people cheated to get 1st, they tend to care about it. The only reason rankings exist in anything, is so that people can compete to get the best rankings.

It's not because I say so, but because this is the stance of the elvenar team on this subject from day one.
This is not new, this has been pointed out, and be responded to. just not on the US server.

If this wat a real competition it would be which fellowship is willing to throw away the most time boosters. and which fellowship is able to gather 25 people to get to the top straight at sunday 16:00 GMT+1, and then it becomes a battle of who bests the other team in the same seconds.

This would be the result if there actually was a competition. who could het 1575 poins at lets say withing the first 5 minutes.
Do you see how unhealty competition would be if it actually was endorsed?

You managed 1575, a great and awesome result, be proud of it, be proud of your result, and your teams teamwork. the spire is all about teamwork, not about competition. for that we already have FA, tournaments and individual rankings.
Lets stick with that.

 

[Kekune]

It's not all that bad.

Conceptually, how is this any different from pushing?
Pushing = running an account to put resources/rewards in a different account
Spire swapping = running an account through the spire to put resources/rewards in a different group of accounts

I don't care a whole lot about policing other people, so I'm not losing sleep over this just as I'm not wasting time reporting obvious pushers. I'd rather focus on my own game and group. But... this seems like an exploit, and a slippery slope. I don't think it should be set up this way.

then that's groovy to dish out extra diamonds, otherwise seems a bit rat in a maze rolling through push accts

Nope, the accounts that leave don't get the prizes.

 

[Darielle]

Or Inno could just change it so that when a player leaves a fellowship, any FS points they had scored in the Spire are erased. The tournament already works this way. To be honest, I assumed the same held true for the Spire. I did not realize it was possible to rotate players in and out during a Spire cycle.

I thought it was that way for the spire as well. Live and learn.

 

[Henroo]

Now I wonder what happens in the Spire from the player's side if you switch fellowships in the middle of a Spire cycle. I have never done so. Are the waypoints you did in your previous fellowship still completed? Or does the Spire reset?

 

[AtaguS]

Now I wonder what happens in the Spire from the player's side if you switch fellowships in the middle of a Spire cycle. I have never done so. Are the waypoints you did in your previous fellowship still completed? Or does the Spire reset?

When a player switches in the middle of the spire, they keep their progress in distance, but not in points. The points stay with the old fs but every point forward is then counted in the new.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

When a player switches in the middle of the spire, they keep their progress in distance, but not in points. The points stay with the old fs but every point forward is then counted in the new.

And you most likely need to ensure at least 1 point in the new fellowship to get the prizes awarded.
It's very likely that if your reached the top, then switch fellowships your will not share the rewards in your new fellowship as it might not detect you have being active in it

If you aquire at least 1 point in your new fellowship and you and your new fellowship reach the top it detects activity and you get all the prizes your fellowship aquired for which your are eligable. so in case fo both the top both the prizes.

I might be wrong on this one but slightly knowing how stuff works in elvenar I would not risk it.

 

[AtaguS]

I might be wrong on this one but slightly knowing how stuff works in elvenar I would not risk it.

As I recall, you are 100% correct on that.
[Edited to clarify] You need to move at least one chest to collect any spire rewards in the new fs.

 

[Blindsider66]

I have only seen one FS to exceed 1575 in Winyandor, and at the time was unable to ascertain how it could be done. If ghost cities are being used to surpass the limit, and on a regular basis, they would all be logged at Elvenstats. A constant shuffling of the same members would only prove that this was being done knowingly, and since the rankings are not affected would not be to anyone's benefit. I have switched fellowships during a Spire week and learned that my points gained at the first were counted there, while only those acquired at my new FS were allotted to them. This is a fair method of distributing the points and does not gain the player any undue benefits.
If the Spire was to begin issuing awards to how a FS placed in the rankings it would need to expand the game. There would almost certainly have to be two or three levels added as well as a new ranking system that included "time taken" . I think a few more twists and turns in the Spire would be welcomed by all. As it stands now the Spire is running at about even with Tournaments in popularity, so why not extend a players involvement in the game. As for scoreboards, I would like to see more of them. There are quite a few competitive players and Fellowships in this game and not all areas are adequately covered. A FS is not ranked in Tournaments, while members are. The Spire ranks Fellowships and not individual members.
There is always room for change.

Peace

 

[Iyapo1]

The spire can be done in a single day (or even a hour or so if you cater).

I am going to have to try this now<sigh>. It's good to have goals. Thanks AJ

Ha! I finally managed to do this!

 

[AtaguS]

have only seen one FS to exceed 1575 in Winyandor

That was us! Well, an 'old' us to me now, I've since joined a new fs. A player had climbed part way up the spire but quit the fellowship. A new player came on and climbed the spire. We were just as confused for a while til we figured out what had happened.

 

[Blindsider66]

That was us! Well, an 'old' us to me now, I've since joined a new fs. A player had climbed part way up the spire but quit the fellowship. A new player came on and climbed the spire. We were just as confused for a while til we figured out what had happened.

I remember that now, and if I'm not mistaken you were in a group with overly inspired members at that time. So additional scoring can occur during player relocations. Thank you for clearing that up for me AtaguS, and I hope you are having fun in your new fellowship.

Peace