Spire?

[DeletedUser23049]

Third time doing the first stage, or third time doing all three stages? Because if it's the former, then I've done that pretty much every week.

ALL 3

 

[kctanzen]

You do realize the percentage chances are very low for the set buildings -- and even lower when you consider that most of them come from the mystery chests, which also have a low percentage chance to appear?

 

[Ashrem]

ALL 3

I guess you're right, I have good luck.

 

[DeletedUser23049]

I guess you're right, I have good luck.

1 of my neighbors has 2 sets. i;m 1 hair of just quiting this game an it;s not just the spire

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

That's 2 libraries, 3 moonstone gates, 1 endless scroll, 5 gum trees, and 4 mana plants

I find that larger buildings on this list provide the least value to me. The gate produces just slightly more than a gum tree (if both are maxed) - but it takes 4x the space. It feels like they still embedded 4:1 cross-tier ratio there, and that's just not a good deal. The library itself produces less than 2x the scrolls that 2-tile Endless Scrolls does. Fragments I don't really care about, but the extra catalyst is great. I wish it would have produced more catalysts (perhaps less SF), it would be a better value then.

Small buildings are great - you just need a lot of them

 

[Ashrem]

The gate produces just slightly more than a gum tree (if both are maxed) - but it takes 4x the space.

It does however, produce Cosmic Bismuth (T3 sentient) not gum (T1 sentient) that's a significant difference. It also (effectively) produces a catalyst, since there is no other building to activate the final link on the library.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

It does however, produce Cosmic Bismuth (T3 sentient) not gum (T1 sentient) that's a significant difference. It also (effectively) produces a catalyst, since there is no other building to activate the final link on the library.

Well, that goes back to the old discussion about relative value across tiers. From my perspective, while 1 unit of T6 production requires more resources comparing to 1 unit of T4, for the resources that matter (pop, space) the ratios are closer to 1:1 (maybe 2:1 on pop) than to 4:1 (or 16:1).

And catalyst production requires a lot of tiles in this set - the tiles that otherwise are not that great value. That's expensive for 1 catalyst a day - when regular MA pops those catalysts every 6.5 hours, and can be sped up with time boosters (assumes you have enough relics). As I mentioned, I like extra catalyst production from the set, but feel that it is pretty expensive for the space that is required to enable it.

 

[Ashrem]

Well, that goes back to the old discussion about relative value across tiers. From my perspective, while 1 unit of T6 production requires more resources comparing to 1 unit of T4, for the resources that matter (pop, space) the ratios are closer to 1:1 (maybe 2:1 on pop) than to 4:1 (or 16:1).

While it does go to their relative value, T1 and T3 are not one to one for the majority of us, so comparing them as equal doesn't work. Even if their realtive value to the average person is only 2:1, that's still 2:1, not 1:1, so saying the gate produces just slightly more than the gum tree remains in accurate.

And catalyst production requires a lot of tiles in this set - the tiles that otherwise are not that great value. That's expensive for 1 catalyst a day - when regular MA pops those catalysts every 6.5 hours, and can be sped up with time boosters (assumes you have enough relics). As I mentioned, I like extra catalyst production from the set, but feel that it is pretty expensive for the space that is required to enable it.

Only I wasn't making a case for the Moonstone gate's contribution to the catalyst production in a vacuum. Specifically, it was a comparison of things the moonstone gate does that make it more valuable than a gum tree, which is why I said "also" instead of setting it off in it's own paragraph.

 

[Pheryll]

While it does go to their relative value, T1 and T3 are not one to one for the majority of us, so comparing them as equal doesn't work. Even if their realtive value to the average person is only 2:1, that's still 2:1, not 1:1, so saying the gate produces just slightly more than the gum tree remains in accurate.

With the pop/culture consumed ratio getting closer the further you progress in chapters, the limiting factor ends up being seeds and goods rather than supplies. 1:1 is far closer than 2:1 for what a city can reasonably produce if they focused on a particular tier. The Amuni version (producing moonstone) of the moonstone gate is a whole lot more valuable than the Construct and Elvenar version (producing bismuth).

 

[Arkadia]

It does however, produce Cosmic Bismuth (T3 sentient) not gum (T1 sentient) that's a significant difference. It also (effectively) produces a catalyst, since there is no other building to activate the final link on the library.

what produces Catalyst? cause my gate does not

 

[Pheryll]

what produces Catalyst? cause my gate does not

Ashrem is just saying that it is the final building to complete the set. Without any gate you cannot produce the CC from the library.

 

[Ashrem]

With the pop/culture consumed ratio getting closer the further you progress in chapters, the limiting factor ends up being seeds and goods rather than supplies. 1:1 is far closer than 2:1 for what a city can reasonably produce if they focused on a particular tier. The Amuni version (producing moonstone) of the moonstone gate is a whole lot more valuable than the Construct and Elvenar version (producing bismuth).

To be closer to 1:1, you also have to ignore any difference between the input of planks vs T3. If you honestly beleive that Gum and Cosmic Bismuth are 1:1, I'll happily take call the bisumth you can come up with in trade for my gum. If people aren't willing to offer their bismuth for gum at 1:1, then they should probably quit pretending they are the same.

what produces Catalyst? cause my gate does not

The library does. But only if there are four other building types touching it, one of which must be a moon gate.

 

[Pheryll]

To be closer to 1:1, you also have to ignore any difference between the input of planks vs T3.

Partially. For population the to sustain the manufactories, the ratio is 1.6. Culture does not tend to be the limiting factor. However the 1.6 does not factor in the space consumed by seed producing buildings (which significantly lowers the ratio). And if you are receiving goods from event buildings, then the ration there is about 1.2 before factoring in space for seed production.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

While it does go to their relative value, T1 and T3 are not one to one for the majority of us, so comparing them as equal doesn't work. Even if their realtive value to the average person is only 2:1, that's still 2:1, not 1:1, so saying the gate produces just slightly more than the gum tree remains in accurate.

I was referring to nominal units. In Elvenar gum tree produces 1111 of T4, gate produces 1260 of T6 - I'd say that's pretty comparable. And even if we say that T6:T4 is 2:1 on the basis of pop (it is quite a bit less on other metrics), this would make it a passable argument for a gate being 2x as big as a gum tree. But it is 4x as big, meaning gum tree per-tile output value is at least twice as good.

To be closer to 1:1, you also have to ignore any difference between the input of planks vs T3. If you honestly beleive that Gum and Cosmic Bismuth are 1:1, I'll happily take call the bisumth you can come up with in trade for my gum. If people aren't willing to offer their bismuth for gum at 1:1, then they should probably quit pretending they are the same.

I thought you were of the opinion that T3 is basically worthless nowadays?

At 2:1 gum:bismuth I'd happily drop all my T4 manus and feed you more bismuth than you probably can handle (I am running 5x T6 manus + MMs right now). I would absolutely be better off running 6x T6 than running 2xT4 + 5xT6.

 

[Ashrem]

I thought you were of the opinion that T3 is basically worthless nowadays?

I was, several months ans everal updates and several events ago. A great deal has changed since then.

At 2:1 gum:bismuth I'd happily drop all my T4 manus and feed you more bismuth than you probably can handle (I am running 5x T6 manus + MMs right now). I would absolutely be better off running 6x T6 than running 2xT4 + 5xT6.

2:1 isn't 1:1. I'm as familiar with hyperbole as anyone. Also with bait-and-switch

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

2:1 isn't 1:1. I'm as familiar with hyperbole as anyone. Also with bait-and-switch

Not sure what you're referring to:

the resources that matter (pop, space) the ratios are closer to 1:1 (maybe 2:1 on pop) than to 4:1 (or 16:1).

Which brings us full circle to the original statement than the library at 4x the size just doesn't produce as much value per tile as the gum tree.

 

[Ashrem]

Which brings us full circle to the original statement than the library at 4x the size just doesn't produce as much value per tile as the gum tree.

For your personal valuation of gum vs bismuth, and ignoring it's contribution to the catalyst, and ignoring that it gives significantly more than 4 times as much culture than the gum tree, yes, I accept that isn't doesn't have enough value for you compared to the gum tree.

I, on the other hand, find adequate value in it, and would place another if I get it, and also place four more gum trees if I had them.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

I, on the other hand, find adequate value in it, and would place another if I get it, and also place four more gum trees if I had them.

Ours are not necessarily contradictory statements I never said that gate is a bad value per se - just that smaller buildings provide higher relative per tile values (indeed, to me). So I'd probably put down more 1 and 2 tile buildings in this set if I had a choice, but in all likelihood my configuration will depend mostly on what and how much I am going to get from the Spire.

 

[samidodamage]

Do any of you spire-lovers (maybe @samidodamage ) know the timers on each gate? I keep forgetting to write them down, and want to plan my next run up to minimize instants on the gates.

I can't get the forum to take my pretty formatted table of the times; it squishes everything back together
I lined it up as best I could using periods

..............................Level 1............................Level 2...............Level 3
1st Gate.................10 seconds.....................9 hours.............12 hours
2nd Gate..................3 hours..........................9 hours.............12 hours
3rd Gate...................9 hours..........................9 hours.............12 hours
4th Gate.................12 hours........................24 hours

 

[Kekune]

I can't get the forum to take my pretty formatted table of the times; it squishes everything back together
I lined it up as best I could using periods

..............................Level 1............................Level 2...............Level 3
1st Gate.................10 seconds.....................9 hours.............12 hours
2nd Gate..................3 hours..........................9 hours.............12 hours
3rd Gate...................9 hours..........................9 hours.............12 hours
4th Gate.................12 hours........................24 hours

Looks pretty darn good to me. Thank you!