Squad Upgrades

[Willowynn]

So my FS, #12 on our server and thus not a bunch of slackers, has recently discovered that researching Squad Upgrades seems to require more effort than it is worth. How should I convince them otherwise...and should I?

 

[SoggyShorts]

See this thread:
https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/should-tournaments-be-based-on-squad-size.13168/

Researching optional SS techs gives you bigger armies to fight on the world map, but increases tournament costs/losses. It's a trade off, but many feel it isn't a balanced one. (skipping is better)

 

[Mykan]

Or look at
https://en.forum.elvenar.com/index....t-squadsize-tournament.5779/page-2#post-36660
It is a post on the EN forum from a Game Moderator. Basically confirms what the players already worked out in the thread Soggy linked.

For later chapters if you research all of the optional techs and stay around 24hr scout times you find every available province is blue (very easy, blutopia). So while SS techs are needed for provinces early on in the game they reach a point that they are far less needed later on. The GM did warn in a later post that "things can change and what seems good now may not be in the future" (paraphrased).

Bottom line is everyone has to make their own decision and there are pros and cons for each, remember certain wonders benefit is linked to SS techs. They key to me is that they can make an informed choice.

 

[SoggyShorts]

The GM did warn in a later post that "things can change and what seems good now may not be in the future" (paraphrased).

For this reason I recommend saving enough guest race goods to unlock the optional SS techs even if you don't do it now.

 

[samidodamage]

I guess this is as good a place as any to ask about my strategy with SS upgrades and see if it's going to come back to bite me. My plan is to unlock all available SS techs. I'm currently in fairies, and I'm meandering through this chapter, skipping techs, going back for techs, etc. Probably about halfway through, and in no rush to finish the tech tree. I've increased my participation in the AW swap thread instead. I've got a max fairy level barracks, 3 max fairy level armories, the Dwarven Bulwark, the Martial Monastery, a chapter 5 Grounds of the Orc Strategist and a chapter 5 Vallorian Valor. I've been unlocking all the optional SS techs(not linear, just before leaving a chapter)and it's making my regular provinces very easy to easy. By chapter end I may get a medium or two. I try (except for event quests) to only scout and complete the minimum number of chests required for the next chapter, waiting for the next advanced scouts to start scouting again. Marble and Gems are at max boost and both have 70+ additional relics as 'padding'. Crystal is 18 relics away from max; will max in the next tournament with some to spare. Several weeks ago, I began giving my goods to smaller cities in the FS to get us further in the tournaments, and I expect that to continue/increase. We're up to getting the 5th chest most weeks and I'm hoping individual city growth in the FS will help move us to the 6th. I'm thinking I'll be able to use troops in the early rounds of the tournament and increase my goods production to still be able to do 1200-1500 points in the tournaments myself (very seldom can I fit in the full 6 rounds, I like my sleep too much!) regularly with the ability to do more. I expect to increase goods production through upgrades where I have plenty of room to grow. Only counting the factories I plan to keep: 5 marble at lvl 16, 2 gems lvl 9 and 1 crystal at 16, 2 at 15. All have several already available lvls to grow into. I have unlocked Mountain Halls. I have space and will build it after the next FA. I've also unlocked the Crystal Lighthouse and will build it when I go back and get the expansions I've skipped in fairies. My thinking is I will mostly explore through fighting, significantly reducing goods used there.
Am I missing anything? Is there something with the game mechanics (SS and tournament catering costs maybe) where this will fall apart?

And of course the disclaimer, a statement I've used plenty recently:
**Please, everybody remember this is a game in development and any or all of this can change at any time.**

 

[Mykan]

I guess this is as good a place as any to ask about my strategy with SS upgrades and see if it's going to come back to bite me. My plan is to unlock all available SS techs.

Your plan sounds reasonable. You will find if you continue with that plan the provincial fights will all become blue. You city plan seems to be working for you and what you want to do so that is good. The main things to consider with optional SS techs is
Pros

• Easier provincial fights
• Wonders that provide free troops are based on SS so you will get more free troops
• Complete tech tree
• Protection from updates moving techs, swapping, becoming compulsory
• Certain you won't need a guest races goods once complete

Cons

• Larger squads in tournaments, thus more losses which take longer to replace than someone who did not do the techs
• More KP into tech tree

 

[SoggyShorts]

I try (except for event quests) to only scout and complete the minimum number of chests required for the next chapter, waiting for the next advanced scouts to start scouting again.

I'm thinking I'll be able to use troops in the early rounds of the tournament and increase my goods production to still be able to do 1200-1500 points in the tournaments

If this is your playstyle I think you should skip all optional SS techs.
You will be spending a lot more troops/goods on tournaments than you will on the world map.
30 world provinces per chapter is 240 encounters.
1500 points is 4 encounters in 7 provinces 5 times. That's 140 tournament fights per week, or around 1,000 per chapter at an average pace.

Is there something with the game mechanics (SS and tournament catering costs maybe) where this will fall apart?

Skipping SS techs might make a few provinces go from easy to medium, but taking all SS techs will increase your losses/costs by up to 50% in tournaments.

With your hybrid military&production layout I'd recommend a hybrid tournament autofight&world map cater.
Somewhere around chapter 8 I'd drop 1 or 2 marble and add a third gem.

At the very least, you should skip SS techs until you find yourself struggling to fight on the world map, and then make the call. You can always go back and click complete, but you can't undo a tech. Just make sure you stockpile enough guest race goods to unlock any SS techs later in case you change your mind, that way there are no regrets.

 

[DeletedUser9247]

Am I missing anything? Is there something with the game mechanics (SS and tournament catering costs maybe) where this will fall apart?

SS and tournament catering costs for sure.
I wouldn't say it falls apart, but it WILL cost you.
As Soggy pointed out, if you want to be active in the tournaments you'll end up doing way, waaaay more of that than map provinces. With increased squad size comes increased cost in both troop deaths and goods needed to be thrown away...and lets not forget the magic barrier of above 1200 SS which will add orcs to your tournament costs as well. Simply put big SS bad for tourneys, good for fighting on the map. It's just that fighting on map is not good to start with...

 

[samidodamage]

Somewhere around chapter 8 I'd drop 1 or 2 marble and add a third gem.

I'm already considering keeping the 3rd gem factory and upgrading it like the others, so I'll hang onto it. The problem with marble is our very unbalanced marble boosts in the FS. There are only 4 of us with marble: one of those is less active (but meets requirements) and 1 is a smaller city (but she's growing fast). At times, I've thought about adding another marble, lol! Right now, the FS is full and all members are meeting FS requirements. When we need to recruit again, we're definitely going to try to concentrate efforts towards more marble boosts.

If this is your playstyle I think you should skip all optional SS techs.

SS and tournament catering costs for sure.
I wouldn't say it falls apart, but it WILL cost you.

I will start doing this now, filling the KP bar but not activating. That should make it easier to go back and get them if mechanics change. I can screen shot the portal mouse-over of the goods available right before I sell off the portal and save those so I know what I've got in reserve. Thanks so much for all your help!

 

[samidodamage]

I've got a max fairy level barracks, 3 max fairy level armories

Correction: the barracks is max dwarven level, not yet there in fairies

 

[SoggyShorts]

@samidodamage
Here's a little calculator I made for training time.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...BLA0g4T--eJczBSSzW36kzLM_o/edit#gid=956127628
I like to keep my barracks to armory ratio so that my barracks can queue 9h of troops at once allowing it to cook while I sleep.

 

[DeletedUser6892]

For this reason I recommend saving enough guest race goods to unlock the optional SS techs even if you don't do it now.

Been doing some reading up on scouting, troops, & found my ONE question is more than one; though much has been answered, too. I am a bit confused though ... I didn't think that any of the tech tree was optional, if even able to skip a tech temporarily, seems always need to go back to do anyway. I originally wasn't interested in battling but met good people in game with good help! Here too!
So what is optional and how do we know? My first question I was trying to find answer for is actually this - how many rings or how far can one scout and clear provinces before the orcs show up? I did it to myself but wanted to know, think I am there! lol, in both worlds, in ring 10 I believe. I need to check back if anyone can answer or point me where to look for the info; that would be awesome.
I may learn the hard way sometimes but am still having fun! TY to all who share your knowledge! k4k

 

[Ashrem]

Anything is optional that doesn't point to a tech beyond it (when you hover over it a green line appears connecting it to the next tech. For the most part, that is only certain Squad sizes and certain Map expansions. Sometimes new troop types are optional when they first appear, but they always become mandatory later.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

Believe me I wish I didn't do every blasted one, tourneys would be alot easier
Current squad size 2346

 

[SoggyShorts]

how many rings or how far can one scout and clear provinces before the orcs show up?

There are 222 provinces that do not require orcs to negotiate on the world map.
In tournaments you will need orcs to cater after your squad size hits 1250+, but that can't happen until well after you unlock chapter 8 breeding grounds and are capable of making orcs.

 

[DeletedUser6892]

There are 222 provinces that do not require orcs to negotiate.

Does this mean that the 11th ring may have some provinces without Orcs?


Nevermind, I figured it out, have scouted & cleared 221 provinces, #222 is almost done...LOL, I knew I did it to myself but at first didn't know then ..."just one more" cuz I need... whatever it may be! TY for your reply and information. I find a lot of helpful things from you and a few others, when I take the time to read thru the information available! k4k

 

[SoggyShorts]

Does this mean that the 11th ring may have some provinces without Orcs?

No, all 222 provinces are contained within the first 10 rings.

 

[DeletedUser6892]

No, all 222 provinces are contained within the first 10 rings.

OOPS!

 

[Thistleknot]

For my play style, I'm a completionist and an expansionist. I research everything and constantly explore. On the world map, I am down to my last two provinces that are medium. This will complete the 14th ring. And I fight for the majority of those encounters. I will probably stop for a bit while I wait for the next chapter. Tournaments tend to be a combination of auto-fight and negotiation. Regardless of the amount of troops I go through (just call me General Meat-grinder), it just costs supplies and time to get the troops back. With 10 workshops and the Prosperity Towers, supplies are not an issue. I produce 1 squad per barracks space and it takes about 2 hours per squad.

Like everything in this game, look at all the information and then figure out what works for you.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

Also at 480 provinces quit counting under present programing