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    Your Elvenar Team

Starting a new city

Smooper

Active Member
So a couple months ago (nearly) I decided to make a second city for the purpose of perhaps making a competitive city that could join a gold spire type fellowship. Well I have pretty much given up that idea but haven't given up the city. I play it a couple times a night and a bit more on weekends and it is a STRUGGLE. When I first started playing this game a year and a half ago it definitely didn't seem like this and if it was I probably wouldn't be playing today. I am still firmly lodged in chapter 2 with shortages of residents, culture, troops and goods always an issue. I joined the first fellowship that asked because I knew it would be temporary. I will say they are nice.

So I have a question, did something besides the tech tree change (tutorial maybe)? And second besides getting gifts of goods how can I get going? I barely am able to fight more than 2 times in a night before I need more troops so gaining provinces and relics to boost my percentage is very hard. Thanks for any help or anecdotes in advance.
 

Maeryn

Member
So a couple months ago (nearly) I decided to make a second city for the purpose of perhaps making a competitive city that could join a gold spire type fellowship. Well I have pretty much given up that idea but haven't given up the city. I play it a couple times a night and a bit more on weekends and it is a STRUGGLE. When I first started playing this game a year and a half ago it definitely didn't seem like this and if it was I probably wouldn't be playing today. I am still firmly lodged in chapter 2 with shortages of residents, culture, troops and goods always an issue. I joined the first fellowship that asked because I knew it would be temporary. I will say they are nice.

So I have a question, did something besides the tech tree change (tutorial maybe)? And second besides getting gifts of goods how can I get going? I barely am able to fight more than 2 times in a night before I need more troops so gaining provinces and relics to boost my percentage is very hard. Thanks for any help or anecdotes in advance.
The problem is the tech tree hasn’t been changed yet…that change that was suppose to happen for the old tech tree accounts haven’t yet changed that I noticed. My spy account tech tree remains the same by the way its on the old tree.
 

muffy.

Chef - Scroll-Keeper - Chandelier Swinger - EAA
@Smooper .. Sorry you are getting frustrated . Hang tight there’s several people here that can try and help .
I know there’s changes in the beginning chapters . You can find out all that info over on the Sorcerer’s Scrolls of Knowledge page here in the forum . But regardless of change . It’s important to get you going . If you’d like, I can take a look at your city ..but you will need to send me a pm letting me know the city name ….or … post the city name here so others can offer their advice and assistance .
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
Strategy
Owner of a 3 week old city here (old tech tree though). I definitely spent way more time in this city because of how needy it was to get going. My biggest city needs the least time because settlement stuff takes forever and timewarp allows tourney to be done way in advance. I vaguely remember from starting my 2nd city how awful the coin crunch was so when I started this one, I overbuilt housing out of the gate to alleviate the coin issue, as in I had way more houses than I needed. I had a bunch of spare population not yet enslaved for the purpose of collecting rent. Almost all techs and upgrades require coins and supplies only so goods aren't really used except catering. Second, I purposely overscouted for both coins from NH, which I knew was going to be the bulk of my income, and to open as many provinces in tourney for relics to raise my boost. I left one very easy province in case of emergency, but everything else is already very hard. This might be a contentious strategy, but I feel as long as I know there is an upcoming Orc wall, I can always adjust my province clearing pacing later. Right now, it suits me to overscout and I am aiming to open 6 provinces so I can cycle through all the relics during tourney. Third, I updated Main Hall as soon as possible because again, bulk of the income is going to come from NH. Then I went hogs wild on T1 factories. Whatever you think you need for T1s, probably build 3 more. That's going to be the bulk cost of catering and your best contribution to your team as a baby city is to churn out bracelets galore. I'm catering full Spire and map provinces. Can't fight map anyway cause everything but my emergency province is already very hard. My troops are only for tourney and I'll only fight the first 6 provinces so it's not going to require that many troops at all. The rest I will cater. My tourney this week is 1890. I only had 7 provinces opened. So no, it's absolutely not that hard to contribute your fair share of a blueprint. You can autofight the first 6 provinces with your eyes closed, no buffs, no wonders, and no fed Fire Chickens, and still have troops left over if you know how to manage your resources.

Once I hit chap 3, I took my foot off the pedals and then started working on T2s, barracks, T3s, and lastly workshops. Workshops are very costly to upgrade with coins and time, but you could brew if necessary so it can wait. With Spire access, you will win a lot of coin rains, supply windfalls, and time instants (all portal profits will be substituted with coin rains and supply windfalls) so it's adios coin and supply issues. Get on that Spire, people! Once I could upgrade my residences to level 15, I teleported some lvl 6 ones away to make more space. Now I can take my time with upgrading workshops (or speed through with time instants), which I'm going to need if I start to add armories and Needles wonder. Now that I'm more or less settled in, I'm going to go even harder on over-producing T1s to start building my war chest. I plan to over-scout and over-expand so I need to cover for this increased cost, but it'll simultaneously prepare me for FAs. Mainly, I'm looking at how much I'm spending in each section of Lab on average and making sure I'm producing enough goods to cover that in time.

I did hit a culture crunch too because the culture buildings from the build menu are awful so I had to wait for the start of the event to replace them. I spent all of my event currency, but only managed to win 2 Skulls of Splendor, despite the fact I was temporarily in Gold league. Yet, that was enough to relieve my culture problem so that shows how terrible build menu culture stuff are. It's so bad that I even have a Ground of the Orc Strategist, not really for making Orcs, but it offers a far better culture per tile yield!

Observations
So far I've learned it's a waste of diamonds to upgrade your MA to lvl 5 already because I don't have the relics to craft enchantments and I don't have the spell frags to craft recipes either. Despite blowing a ton of diamonds, my MA sits mostly idle. Therefore, that one can definitely be put on the back burner. You'll still eventually want a lvl 5 MA, but you don't need one this early yet.

This 3rd city also shares diamonds with my main city, which allowed me to upgrade my MA to lvl 5 and also acquire 4 bear artifacts already. I also converted 2 raccoons from FA so my Brown Bear is already at lvl 6! My 2nd city is on EN and it never shared diamonds with my first city. Everything there had to be earned from scratch again. This is a ridiculous advantage, so anyone who thinks the game has an even competitive premise is lying to themselves. I did have to close my eyes and frag Pet Food today before weeping into a pillow. It hurt, but it had to be done. I'm not feeding my Brownie anytime soon and I don't have anything else that need Pet Food at this time, but the cupboards are bare and I've fragged everything else. This damn diaper city better get into a good school because so far, it's a diamond pit! I'm actually thinking of working on a Polar Bear next after Brownie instead of Fire Phoenix because I'm won't have enough provinces to require a Fire Phoenix yet, but quality of life and getting more rounds of tourney in to get more relics for boost and crafting is more important right now. I'm estimating the real kung fu fighting starts in Fairies or Orcs so I have time yet.
 

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
I agree with @crackie in most aspects but have a few ideas of my own and I won't repeat much of what she says. I'm going to assume you are a new player instead of one starting a 2nd city. That way I don't have to gage your knowledge. If what I say sounds like talking down to you or you already know this, please forgive me. Also, this is for the old chapter 1-5.
  • Resist buying magic builds. Until chapter 5 both houses and workshops provide less than normal ones, mainly because you can take the houses and workshops to level 15 in chapter 3. It's not a bad idea to make extra houses in chapter 2. In chapter 3 upgrade your current buildings one at a time all the way to level 15 and sell off the excess ones as the pressure is relieved. Teleport spells are rare at that level, and it doesn't take too long to build new ones later. Or hopefully having magic ones by then. Once you reach chapter 5, 5 magic workshops produce as many hammers as 9 normal ones which requiring less pop and cult support and, obviously, less space. Houses is 3 magic for 5 normal.
  • Use your diamonds to buy a few expansions. The first few are very cheap. I know, some higher ranked players are very much against doing anything that will affect troop squad size for the spire or tourneys, but I think space crunch is important for early progress. It seems like someone made a tiny city that could do great in tourneys by catering using only a particular set building for good production. An exercise in extreme design.
  • It's tempting to upgrade your BH and MA to level 5 quickly. Maybe take the BH to level 3. There will be times you will want to have more than 3 building being upgraded at a time, but you will usually be upgrading 1, 2 or 0 most of the time. The MA upgrading will help, but (insert @crackie words here).
  • Only scout in circles around your city. Don't chase specific ones outside the current ring as each ring cost more to scout and they are more expensive to cater.
  • Build the Tome of Secretes. This will serve you well without upgrading for a while. I recommend it over the Golden Abyss to begin with because it needs to be upgraded quickly if it's to outproduce normal houses. The ToS will help reduce the hammer crunch. I didn't upgrade mine for a while and then only to level 6. As scout time grows, it becomes less useful. I sold mine when I got to Woodelves. Try and remember to have room in the MH for the hammers you will get before you send out the scout. I lost many a hammer since all too often I didn't check.
  • Don't craft things that use the relics needed to increase your boosted goods until you are past the 500 for the 700% boost and keep it above that amount.
  • Replace all event buildings with newer ones. It will be a while before there are some worth using RR spells to upgrade. Remember you will be dragging chapter by chapter using RR spells on them.
  • In chapter 3 the Needles of the Tempest is tempting. Resist and get the Endless Excavation. It will help with hammers and relics. The NoT seems good since it increases archer strength and speeds up barrack training time. However, you won't be fighting much except in the lower 6 provs when it's almost impossible to lose and you already can't keep the training queue from emptying as it is. The NoT is a very good and needed AW, but like the GA, not for a while.
  • Etc, etc, etc.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
In chapter 3 the Needles of the Tempest is tempting. Resist and get the Endless Excavation. It will help with hammers and relics. The NoT seems good since it increases archer strength and speeds up barrack training time. However, you won't be fighting much except in the lower 6 provs when it's almost impossible to lose and you already can't keep the training queue from emptying as it is. The NoT is a very good and needed AW, but like the GA, not for a while.
Oh, I will be building this one right away because it’s prob my favorite wonder. :)

My second city was putzing around experimenting with obtaining the fabled >999+ squads ASAP, but I had to abandon plans when I started my own FS instead since I needed to anchor tourney in a brand new FS. It was a cater only city covered in armories—inefficiency at its best! I plan to revisit this goal in my new city.

Originally, I wanted to explore building an extreme minimal tiny city for my 3rd city, but I was told the FS expected me to grow. I had to negotiate expected rate of growth, like did they want me to sprint through chapters to catch up to the pack because the next smallest city is already in chap 12. I don’t want to start a sprint city though bc I hate settlements and focusing on settlements would be a chore and opposite of fun. A compromise was made where I can’t stay small but I don’t have to sprint. So my new objective for the new city is to see what happens if you give me wonder society from the beginning. I noticed my 2nd city is faring much better than my original city at the same point in the game since I switched to wonder society when I started my fellowship. I started wonder society in Orcs for city #2, but give me wonder society in chap 1 and this might be interesting. I am currently halting on wonder building bc it is eating at my boost % to upgrade though. Hence, current focus is to hoard me some relics to max out boost and then I’m gonna release the Kracken on wonders. I’m going to build me a gigantic army that I don’t plan on using for awhile, but when I am good and ready…watch out! The crack genghis and her hoarde!

So yes, I will be expending a lot of energy to do a lot of things inefficiently soon and newbies following along might want to ignore those contradictory strategies of building a cater only city with a gigantic army. :D
 

Smooper

Active Member
I think I have turned a corner. I bought another expansion and got one from provinces and now have 3 more residences so my population is much better and the culture is keeping up. I will grab a bunch of scouts as soon as my squad size improves one more and then upgrade my buildings. Let you know how things go but I was literally blocked for a month.
 

Myne

Oh Wise One
Smooper, I have a baby catering city I started in Elcysandir and have all the same problems you have had. Never had them with my original city.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
I think I have turned a corner. I bought another expansion and got one from provinces and now have 3 more residences so my population is much better and the culture is keeping up. I will grab a bunch of scouts as soon as my squad size improves one more and then upgrade my buildings. Let you know how things go but I was literally blocked for a month.
I don't bother trying to fight map provinces. It's still so cheap to cater at very hard.
 

Smooper

Active Member
After a burst of development this weekend, I have come up against the "silk wall". I need tier 2 goods to get the last culture tech from ch. 2 so I can move on. Hopefully I will grow my one silk manufactory (only have room for one) and it will provided all the tier 2 goods I need to complete this tech.
 

muffy.

Chef - Scroll-Keeper - Chandelier Swinger - EAA
After a burst of development this weekend, I have come up against the "silk wall". I need tier 2 goods to get the last culture tech from ch. 2 so I can move on. Hopefully I will grow my one silk manufactory (only have room for one) and it will provided all the tier 2 goods I need to complete this tech.
Make sure you always, always put a spell on it ! ;)
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
It appears Needles gobbles T2 relics so I'm going to forth with its leveling frenzy now. GA gobbles T1 relics so that one needs to wait.
 
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