Forum Suggestions on Suggestions

[Silly Bubbles]

It looks like that the suggestion process is being reviewed (here) so I thought it could help if we have a bit of say in it too. I think that the current problem is that new suggestions are being added to the list while the most important ones get pushed down the list or ignored because they have already been made and dealt with. I think it would be great for us to be able to remind and update what is most important to us.

So my idea so far:

- have a monthly "wish list" thread for already made suggestions
- make one suggestion per post with a link to an old discussion or suggestion thread
- the most supported post/suggestion gets forwarded
- new suggestions will have their own threads

It's not perfect but I still think that we do need to remind and update what we want the most.

 

[Katwick]

Or a thread that has a simple Consolidated Status Table, probably in the Beta Forum rather than the World Forums to avoid replication. The first post in that thread would be updated once a month with Status information that would be fed by the Forum Moderators/Community Managers based on similar tables in the various forums.

Status​	Date​	Yes​	No​	Subject	Discussion Link
Forwarded	June 11, 2023	15	3	Whatever	To a summary Post
Etc

Ideally, the InnoGames Development Team Managers would post an occasional Future Changes Log that reflects the Items that THEY are considering, with some commentary about Priority, Constraints, Consolidation, and Benefits. Innogames undoubtedly has some means of allocating Development Resources, that they could simplify and share.

Many of us are familiar with the vagaries of Project Management, and I'm not especially interested in what some squeaky wheel is complaining about.

 

[Silly Bubbles]

Or a thread that has a simple Consolidated Status Table, probably in the Beta Forum rather than the World Forums to avoid replication. The first post in that thread would be updated once a month with Status information that would be fed by the Forum Moderators/Community Managers based on similar tables in the various forums.

Status​	Date​	Yes​	No​	Subject	Discussion Link
Forwarded	June 11, 2023	15	3	Whatever	To a summary Post
Etc

Ideally, the InnoGames Development Team Managers would post an occasional Future Changes Log that reflects the Items that THEY are considering, with some commentary about Priority, Constraints, Consolidation, and Benefits. Innogames undoubtedly has some means of allocating Development Resources, that they could simplify and share.

Many of us are familiar with the vagaries of Project Management, and I'm not especially interested in what some squeaky wheel is complaining about.

As much as this covers the perfect scenario of communication from developers, it doesn't really cover what suggestions we want to be implemented the most. From practicality point of view, I don't want developers to spend their time on updating the status of every suggestion, I want them to spend it on improving the game.

The intention with my suggestion is to improve our communication to developers because I think that we could make it clearer what our priorities are. Perfect examples would be Moonstone Library balancing, old cross-tier trades, FA badges collection etc. These suggestions should've been a top priority in every month's report. They shouldn't have been ignored just because they were already forwarded months back.

Edit: typos

 

[Myne]

Remember that suggestions come from ALL the worlds. CM's decide which ones get forwarded.

 

[TimeMachine]

The intention with my suggestion is to improve our communication to developers because I think that we could make it clearer what our priorities are. Perfect examples would be Moonstone Library balancing, old cross-tier trades, FA badges collection etc. These suggestions should've been a top priority in every month's report. They shouldn't have been ignored just because they were already forwarded months back.

Good intention, I agree. But at the moment we will simply have to wait a while I guess.

I think INNO will get back to community on this by CMs after having restructured as soon as possible.

I can really well imagine that it isn't easy in general for anybody at INNO nowadays.

 

[Katwick]

The intention with my suggestion is to improve our communication to developers because I think that we could make it clearer what our priorities are.

Without some feedback it's unlikely that you'll be able to understand the Whys and Wherefores of "they shouldn't have been ignored," and you won't be able to tune your suggestions, nor plow fertile ground.

It's quite OK with me if the feedback is simply the Community Manager's summary of a more comprehensive, but somewhat confidential document. My point is that the Development Team DOES have some sort of work allocation guidance, and a bit of insight would facilitate better suggestions.

 

[Silly Bubbles]

Remember that suggestions come from ALL the worlds. CM's decide which ones get forwarded.

Yes, this would apply to all worlds and then CMs would summarise it to one report. Also, the process is in review at this moment so things can change.

Good intention, I agree. But at the moment we will simply have to wait a while I guess.

I think INNO will get back to community on this by CMs after having restructered as soon as possible.

I can really well imagine that it isn't easy in general for anybody at INNO nowadays.

I think it's still worth a shot. It's easier to have suggestions implemented now rather then after they released adjustments. It could help them to decide what to do before they invest too much in it.

Without some feedback it's unlikely that you'll be able to understand the Whys and Wherefores of "they shouldn't have been ignored," and you won't be able to tune your suggestions, nor plow fertile ground.

It's quite OK with me if the feedback is simply the Community Manager's summary of a more comprehensive, but somewhat confidential document. My point is that the Development Team DOES have some sort of work allocation guidance, and a bit of insight would facilitate better suggestions.

Personally, I'm just happy to voice my suggestions and what they do with it is up to them. They are more qualified and know more than me to make the final decision. As long as I'm heard, I'm fine. Also, it's very hard for them to properly explain the reasons for their actions not only because it's technically advanced but also time consuming. I still rather have better game than better communication from them, everyone's time and money is limited and their time is better spent on developing the game rather than communicating with players.

 

[crackie]

They are more qualified and know more than me to make the final decision.

Mmmm...I don't know about that. We've got CMs that are new to the game. Nothing against the Beta CM as we all have to start somewhere, but it still feels like asking the new chapter 3 player to make executive decisions for the FS and have the chap 20 players sit out on the sidelines. There's no way I'd expect players to have parity with a CM, but I'm simply pointing out the flaw in the current system that allows for CMs to arrive with zero prior experience to the game, but are the gatekeepers of the process flow in how to improve the game. Right now, an idea can have the full backing of the market/community, but the CMs are free to then go on and vote for whatever else when they convene. It's like you caucus for one party at home, but your delegates go vote for someone else at the convention. Let's say hypothetically, there was a method to filter out the most popular ideas coming out of all markets, which would represent the most popular idea out of the entire global Elvenar player base. But all the CMs can still come together and NOT vote for that idea, which means the process is more about what the CMs want than what the players want.

The CM for a small market has the same vote as the larger markets too. Hence, the joke and creation of the fictitious CM of Tonga that is the target of my ire. Let's hypothetically say the CMs represent their territories and vote according to the most popular idea out of their market. Proportionally then, the players of an arbitrary small random market has more say than anyone here, even though we are the largest market. We've also had instances where CMs don't even show up on the forums, in which case, nothing even leaves the forum so the process was dead from the start. In this case, that means nothing from the biggest market even makes it into the improvement process.

The "old" system feels like a kangaroo court so I wouldn't say I would miss it. The Ideas and Suggestions forum is mostly gaslighting players into thinking they have a voice in this process. Obviously, they can't give in to all the players' demands either as it is a business and they can't make the game too easy or nobody needs to spend money, but hopefully, whatever changes they decide to make, it will allow players to have a say in the improvement process in a more meaningful way and not a mere empty gesture.

 

[Myne]

*sigh* I miss helya
She would at least talk to us. And if she couldn't she would tell us that too.

 

[Silly Bubbles]

Mmmm...I don't know about that. We've got CMs that are new to the game. Nothing against the Beta CM as we all have to start somewhere, but it still feels like asking the new chapter 3 player to make executive decisions for the FS and have the chap 20 players sit out on the sidelines. There's no way I'd expect players to have parity with a CM, but I'm simply pointing out the flaw in the current system that allows for CMs to arrive with zero prior experience to the game, but are the gatekeepers of the process flow in how to improve the game. Right now, an idea can have the full backing of the market/community, but the CMs are free to then go on and vote for whatever else when they convene. It's like you caucus for one party at home, but your delegates go vote for someone else at the convention. Let's say hypothetically, there was a method to filter out the most popular ideas coming out of all markets, which would represent the most popular idea out of the entire global Elvenar player base. But all the CMs can still come together and NOT vote for that idea, which means the process is more about what the CMs want than what the players want.

The CM for a small market has the same vote as the larger markets too. Hence, the joke and creation of the fictitious CM of Tonga that is the target of my ire. Let's hypothetically say the CMs represent their territories and vote according to the most popular idea out of their market. Proportionally then, the players of an arbitrary small random market has more say than anyone here, even though we are the largest market. We've also had instances where CMs don't even show up on the forums, in which case, nothing even leaves the forum so the process was dead from the start. In this case, that means nothing from the biggest market even makes it into the improvement process.

The "old" system feels like a kangaroo court so I wouldn't say I would miss it. The Ideas and Suggestions forum is mostly gaslighting players into thinking they have a voice in this process. Obviously, they can't give in to all the players' demands either as it is a business and they can't make the game too easy or nobody needs to spend money, but hopefully, whatever changes they decide to make, it will allow players to have a say in the improvement process in a more meaningful way and not a mere empty gesture.

Sorry, I thought we were talking about developers not CMs. My bad.

 

[Silly Bubbles]

Has anyone have a comment on the actual suggestion? Any ideas how we could prioritise and forward suggestions in a clearer way?

 

[FaunWillow]

I can really well imagine that it isn't easy in general for anybody at INNO nowadays.

I appreciate your optimism and general outlook with your responses on each forum thread lately, but INNO Games did this to themselves, by removing product managers, qualified Community Managers, which in turn resulted in many long standing support members quitting, and changing their in house team staff, on to removing a whole bunch of employees this last April, all while catering to shareholder's demands instead of listening to the player base.
Proposing another suggestion while they aren't currently taking suggestions seems unnecessary to me, at the moment....but the ideas so far have been great to read and have been a productive planning, but I don't know if it counts right now, with no communication as to how/when we can actually propose ideas (that will get forwarded on) and if it'll even go anywhere.
From the German CMs post, it sounds like she'll send some ideas along if she feels like it, while they "restructure" the way they do things within Support. That's not very encouraging.

 

[Iyapo]

We have a thread, we can propose ideas on it as often as we wish.

If I have an idea, I can post it over there and get community feedback. As always. Only now I can ignore the posting format because it is not being forwarded to anyone. No one said we can't still talk about the game and post up wish lists.