Temporary Change in Spire Schedule, Gate timer and reward adjustments

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I get it this game needs to be profitable to the owners, but rather than take away from it to do so why not add more competition to motivate the big spenders into getting the edge, i spent a couple of years over on foe and know how much certain individuals spend to have the edge on other players, it was a well balanced and what looked like a very profitable system, ive been here a few months and it seems like you guys are struggling for profits, when i saw the buy badges sale in the adventure thing it seemed to be the writing on the wall, just add some arena system or something where people or fs could compete to be the best and problems will be solved

Elvenar is not PvP oriented and has a different target group, it targets Females (and males but females first) in the age 35-60.
Those type of competition could drive away that female audience they are targetting.

They should start unique paid portraits(pink pink pink), unique building skins(pink) ect, there is a reason the "animal" buildings always have been popular in elvenar as females loved the frog, the turtle, unicorns!!!!, the phoenix and the bears. as animal programs are also very popular on discovery, national geographic ect at .. you guess the female audience.

I think there main issue is that currently they only target at milking whale spenders more and more and more, ignoring anything else.
They are locking themselves in a corner with that approach, each lost whale is a huge loss to the company

There is a huge untapped audience who is willing to spend a few buck but not hundreds of dollars at least on the surface. you scare those people away with $20-30-40+ puchases but they dont mind spending 100 times $2 as it doesnt feel "big".

Let us reskin some buildings for a few diamonds a building, let us buy a custom portraint for $1-2,
unique personalised stuff with no in game benefit, a stupid santa hat on your avatar for $0.50 at cristmas.

I think they should diversify there spending portfolio targetting more than just the whales.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

Convincing people of the value of tournaments is a lot harder I'd imagine since the benefits are not as directly felt. For instan

I think it's probably not a great principle never to convince because I think Inno has it set up that you really should sometimes. I've certainly had multiwave encounters where I couldn't see any combination of troops that worked for all 3 waves and because the SS is so huge I don't even want to try. Also I rarely cater in general so I gotta spend my goods on something. However, I've found that it often does pay to at least scout it because sometimes I find they are all stuck behind a wall and what looks barely winnable at best can suddenly turn into zero or minimal losses with the right selection of troops.

I don't think it's accurate to compare convincing to roulette. Roulette is random and your statistical expectation is the same no matter how you bet. But it very much matters how you select goods when convincing. If you are just randomly placing goods until you get it right then I can see why you would be against the process.

One thing I never do in a multiwave encounter is autofight, especially when the SS is huge. Autofight can do some bizarre things that can cost a lot of troops. The more troops I lose in the first wave the worse it will be in subsequent waves. There really aren't that many encounters in the Spire so it's well worth spending a little extra time to manual fight when so many troops are at stake.

Timerestrictions have me autofight a lot, so I expect much heavier casualties than on manual fight. My 'choice' there, so though it sucks I'll no complain.
Spire encounters after completing the first tower I usually do manually due to the ridiculous amounts of troops involved. I still expect casualties, but generally manage to get through the second tower without too much of a problem, if not without losses again. 3rd tower depends how far I go (again, timerestrictions).
However, if I normally manage to get halfway through the 3rd tower and now I suddenly am stuck halfway not even halfway the second one, even with significant boosts (Firephoenix, 1 UUU, 1 MMM, 1 ELR) and cannot manage to even finish that encounter on manual, there is something very, very wrong. Especially if it is not 'just not making it' but resounding defeat every damn combination I tried.
As for convincing, again MY choice whether or not to do so. And even though it may not be completely roulette, if there are 5 goods to offer from in only 3 attempts that comes very close to just chance. As stated, I have records going back years that ON AVERAGE I score more than 1 standard deviation below the stated chances, so I generally am -beep-ed with that in Elvenar, which is why I refuse to do so.

 

[GardenBirdLady]

The Spire is just not worth doing. You spend a ton of goods or troops to get stuff you could make for cheap in the magic academy. I go up and stop at the spot where you get 50 diamonds every time - why would I go any further? I have done this since the beginning and never once have I gotton a manna plant, so my Library remains incomplete. The Spire is too expensive!!!!

 

[GardenBirdLady]

The Spire is too expensive!!!!
Why not give back the goods that the negotiators don't want? It's ridiculous that they would take them.

 

[Nectar of the Gods]

From what I've seen since I've been playing, every time Inno has something that is working and then they tweak it to "make it better" they wind up making it far less appealing. Messing with the first level of the Spire and reducing the rewards players get will not have the effect of getting those players to try for greater heights. It will just cause them to decide it isn't worth it to play it. I'm pretty much at that point with the whole game now.

 

[DeletedUser19458]

The Spire is too expensive!!!!
Why not give back the goods that the negotiators don't want? It's ridiculous that they would take them.

Cause then it'd just be catering the encounter. Maybe not bad, but not what the devs were going for in concept.

 

[DeletedUser1390]

"Subsequently" normally means from now on. Did you mean the Spire will end on Saturday from now on, or just this week (in which case you probably meant "consequently" .) Please clarify.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

"Subsequently" normally means from now on. Did you mean the Spire will end on Saturday from now on, or just this week (in which case you probably meant "consequently" .) Please clarify.

On other worlds they clarified as "only this week"
Guess for some reason the want personel at hand when unrolling this.

 

[GardenBirdLady]

While you think it's loony to do the Spire there are others like myself who think it's loony NOT to do the Spire. Each week I gain hundreds of diamonds, around 200 hours of time instants, bunches of CC spells and spell fragments, portal profits, supply and coin instants, the occasional magic house or workshop. and various other buildings. Those time instants I use to create enough troops to fight through the Spire plus a lot of the tournament as well.

I think many people hate the Spire because they don't quite get that doing the Spire is an investment in doing even more of the Spire. They get through those first three gates, which are trivial for anybody and they win 7*5hr time boosters. They then squander them on finishing upgrading some building. Or maybe they leave them in inventory and don't think about them again. Then they get to a fight that cost them troops that will take them 15 hours to replace and think that's a ridiculously expensive fight. They don't realize that they won 35 hours of time boosts that could be used to instantly replace those troops. Yes, the Spire is expensive in troops, but Inno gives you everything you need to pay for it. They give you supply instants to help pay for training the troops. They give CC spells and Spell Fragments to go craft military boost buildings or more supply instants. They give you diamonds to help pay for the occasional times when you need to negotiate. They give you Magic Workshops (if you are very lucky) to help pay for training troop and Dwarven Armorers to make it easier to fight your way through. Then as you progress further you get more and more of all the above that you invest in getting even further still until your entire fs is doing the entire Spire and you're all swimming in time boosters and diamonds and Magic buildings.

So go back and convince your fs to try putting everything they win in the Spire into their Spire account. If you win time instants think of them as being intended specifically for training troops for the Spire. If you win diamonds think of them as being intended specifically for negotiating in the Spire. Do the same with supply instants. If you win spells and fragments then use them to craft things like supply instants or military boosts buildings that will help get through the Spire. It won't seem so expensive when you realize you are just using things the Spire already gave you.

After all my complaining about the Spire, what you have said makes a lot of sense!

 

[samidodamage]

@Elven Ivory
Buried on the first page of this thread is:

The change is only limited to this upcoming Spire, it will continue with the normal start day after the completion of the upcoming Spire cycle.

I started playing the Spire when it first came out because I liked the challenge of the multi-wave battles & didn't care about the rewards, but sort of (erroneously) accepted the fact that the rewards weren't really worth it. Of course, for the first several chapters when I started, I didn't think the tourneys were worth it either, lol. I have settled in to playing to the first guard chest on the 3rd floor (last chance at teleport spells in individual rewards) and only rarely completing all 3 floors in both my cities. I manually fight 99% of the encounters, so don't have any opinions on the costs of the convincing option. I get more timers than I use, and since I fight, it's infrequent that I use diamonds anymore (I did in the beginning to offset the learning curve for the multi-wave fights). In addition to several complete sets of the Spire set bldgs and a gazillion of the little bldgs I have won 3 magic residences in each city and a magic workshop in one of them. I have over 300K spell fragments in each city and over 250CC's in each city as well, so I can craft anything I want, anytime I want to. I have several upgraded factories and workshops in inventory in both cities thanks to teleport spells and have 35 teleports in inventory in one city and 52 in the other.
So, yes, I think the Spire is definitely worth it. It's the fact that these rewards come slowly over time that I think makes it hard to explain to others who are looking at the cost/benefit ratio *right now* instead of long term. Everything else in Elvenar is a marathon, not a sprint, so it makes sense that this would be the case with the Spire as well.

 

[Black watch]

I must say, the gate timer reduction appeals to me. The loss of diamonds annoys me.
But the one thing that really makes me cranky was learning this morning that changes were coming... WOOHOO, then finding out the one thing I was really hoping for was to have a reduction in fragments, or the reduction/balancing of percentage of getting them. I'm swimming in fragments and it's gotten to the point where I just roll my eyes when I see them.
I had some fantasy that new/different prizes would be added...
That a reduction in troop sizes would be happening so the smaller cities in my clan could cope better.
I've been trying to bring them along and get them interested and we just placed 19th in the spire rankings, up from our usual mid-forties.
Now this...
Gate reduction good.
Not sure about the rest so far, but thinking it's not going to help over all. It's coming across as another nerf to the game, and I think that's been the overall trend "lately"

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

wave 1: hellhound, hellhound, hellhound, hellhound, mage
wave 2: mage, heavy melee, heavy melee, heavy range, heavy range

You never encounter at least 1 impossible combination?

I did encounter tough combos - this is not one of them. I am pretty sure that Vallorians or even lowly Treants on autofight will rip these waves apart. Certainly with health boost.

Most of the really hard ones would be 3 waves. Most of the 2 waves I can think of have enough overlap to mount a decent attack with some kind of unit (assuming all 3* unlocked) when you have a health boost. That's not always the case in 3 wave.

 

[Black watch]

I did encounter tough combos - this is not one of them. I am pretty sure that Vallorians or even lowly Treants on autofight will rip these waves apart. Certainly with health boost.

Most of the really hard ones would be 3 waves. Most of the 2 waves I can think of have enough overlap to mount a decent attack with some kind of unit (assuming all 3* unlocked) when you have a health boost. That's not always the case in 3 wave.

I agree, though I usually encounter, on average, 3 fights in my way to the top that make me scratch my head and really try to beat the enemy with as few losses as possible. Some are a real challenge.
I think of the smaller cities reaching those hard fights and hear a clan mate's words when he finally gave up after reaching one.
"I just can't get past this one fight and now I'm out of troops."
I was hoping with this this change, that they'd try and balance things a little better.
Well, we shall see soon enough.

 

[Ashrem]

I agree with MinMax. As long as only one opponent has an advantage against your choice, and yours have an advantage over more than half of the total, auto-fighting a two-wave encounter should be acceptable with minimal AW/boost buildings

 

[DeletedUser1390]

If the new balancing is going to place more emphasis on getting further up the spire, would you consider increasing the frequency of troop buff buildings on the crafting menu? It is difficult or impossible to fight the third spire (and sometimes the second) without troop buffs. Maybe I'm just on a dry run, but it seems I rarely see those on the crafting menu of late, and have run plum out of them.

 

[Palavyn]

Only those few who make it to the top AND who are in a FS where almost everyone makes it to the top will see a slight increase in diamonds. Everyone else will see a significant decrease in diamonds.

 

[DeletedUser19602]

how come it's so hard to win the Moonstone Library? have won multiples of the others in the set.

 

[Ashrem]

how come it's so hard to win the Moonstone Library? have won multiples of the others in the set.

Random is random.

Spoiler

 

[OCRassman]

Spire is moved 24hrs - so those of us who time temp building drops for the 1st day of spire cannot use them now. This is a little more than a minor inconvenience as the overlap allowed us to use temp buildings for the end of tourney push. Now if we drop temp buildings on Monday they will not be active on the last day of the tourney. I also agree with the math posted above. I have yet to see the 12th point reached. Unless an FS reaches that point, everyone will be earning less diamonds. Even if an FS manages to reach that point - only the members who completed the Spire will make more diamonds - hurting those who really needed them more.

 

[Risen Malchiah]

If you place the building on Monday, it will still be active til that point on Saturday. (ie 4pm monday to 4pm saturday)