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    Your Elvenar Team

the battles seem so unfair

DeletedUser688

Guest
I actually happen to be on winyandor right now...
perhaps i may try humans sometime in the future, if I do, i will do it on arendyll
 

DeletedUser749

Guest
I honestly don't see how you could get through those previously mentioned encounters with a squad size of 48...

Well you are clearly further than me in ring 5, seeing as how you have so limited options left for fighting :) and lets be clear: I also reckon the losses incurred by battles escalate too fast, simply by the AI having much better units & more of them.

Example of a province I just fought:
57 cerberus II
58 bandit
58 bandit
58 bandit
58 bandit
14 knights

1st turn, waited - all troops out of range. Cerberi rushed forward got hit by sworddancers. bandits taken far down by archers. knights not in range.
2nd turn, cerberi & bandits all go on sworddancers, sworddancers reduce cerberi to 13 units, archers remove leftover bandits, knights not in range.
3rd turn, cerberi cause stack of sworddancers to be almost gone, knights move to range for next turn. cerberi downed by archer and sworddancer, remaining archers start battering knights
4th turn, knights kill the 1 sworddancer left alive. archers continue on knights
5th turn, knights hit archer, archers finish knights.
total losses: 48 sworddancer, 4 archers
training time: ~ 1.25hr

I should think given what you tell of your current armies that the crystal provinces and maybe the elixir 2nd encounter are doable if the terrain doesn't suck. Otherwise it's all sad negotiable encounters :(
Trade trade trade! More negotiation is the way to get to sorcerers!
 

DeletedUser688

Guest
well, i just got golems, and i've been training them like mad...1 full squad of them takes 4 hours. I was mistaken a little, i thought they would have movemnt 2, and range 2, but they have movment 3 and range 3, they are basically the same as archers but the dogs and mages are not resistant...however, the dogs also get a bonus to attack the golems.

that battle you fought, i probably might have sent in 1 x6 treant squad and 4 x72 archer squads. probably would have lost 4 treants...I dunno. i'm almost done with 5th ring, starting on the 6th ring. ironically, the 6th ring is not that much harder than the 5th one.
still, i lose 2 squads per fight.

however, if it comes down to a choice between 4-6 hours worth of troops or 1 days worth of goods...i'll pick the troops
 

DeletedUser688

Guest
6th ring

encounter

218 cerberus II
218 bandits.


I send in a full squad of 72 blade dancers, a full squad of 6 treants, 3 squads of golems...

the dogs move, kill my full squad of blade dancers in 1 hit...the bandits kill 4/6 of my treants in 1 shot...

I retreated

I tried again,

this time i brought 2 squads of archer II
a squad of golems
a blade dancers,
a treants

i sat back waited for the dogs to come close.
blade dancers strike, only kill 30/218
treants strike, kill 30.

the dogs have 158/218 left...kill the full squad of blade dancers in 1 hit.

golems shoot the dogs...kill 12...

archers shoot the bandits kill 68/218
other archers kill 70/218

the bandits are left with 80 guys, they shoot my golems....kill the entire squad of 12 golems, in 1 shot.

then the dogs kill a squad of archers in 1 shot.

my remaining archers kill the bandit squad.

my treants kill 30 more dogs.

the dogs kill the other squad of archers.

my treants end up trading blows, for some rounds...i bring the dogs down to 1/218 of a squad, and they attack and kill 1 treant.

I won, with 1/6 of a treant squad left
 

DeletedUser749

Guest
6th ring

encounter

218 cerberus II
218 bandits.


I send in a full squad of 72 blade dancers, a full squad of 6 treants, 3 squads of golems...

the dogs move, kill my full squad of blade dancers in 1 hit...the bandits kill 4/6 of my treants in 1 shot...

I retreated

I tried again,

this time i brought 2 squads of archer II
a squad of golems
a blade dancers,
a treants

i sat back waited for the dogs to come close.
blade dancers strike, only kill 30/218
treants strike, kill 30.

the dogs have 158/218 left...kill the full squad of blade dancers in 1 hit.

golems shoot the dogs...kill 12...

archers shoot the bandits kill 68/218
other archers kill 70/218

the bandits are left with 80 guys, they shoot my golems....kill the entire squad of 12 golems, in 1 shot.

then the dogs kill a squad of archers in 1 shot.

my remaining archers kill the bandit squad.

my treants kill 30 more dogs.

the dogs kill the other squad of archers.

my treants end up trading blows, for some rounds...i bring the dogs down to 1/218 of a squad, and they attack and kill 1 treant.

I won, with 1/6 of a treant squad left

So just to be clear:
1st attempt: You let the enemy get first hit? Just wanted to test how much damage they do if you don't get first hit yourself? Anyways that is ofc very sad to lose so many troops for such an avoidable mistake. Set up your starting position to avoid them hitting you in turn 1 at all costs.

2nd attempt:
round 1: sworddancer, treant, golem hit dog - 30+30+12 killed ... archer, archer hit bandits - 68+70 killed
enemy: 146 dogs hit sworddancer - 72 killed ... 80 bandits hit golem ... 12 killed
enemy???: 146 dogs hit archer - 72 killed
round 2: treants hit dog - 30 killed ... archers hit bandits - 80? killed
enemy: 116 dogs hit archers - 72 killed
round 3: treants hit dogs - 30 killed
enemy: 86 dogs hit treant - ? killed
...
round ?: 2 treants hit dogs - 1 dog survives
enemy: 1 dog hits treants - 1 treant killed.

You seemed to have fixed whatever went wrong in 1st attempt, so here is what I would try to change for next time, based on what you learned.
First off, be wary that due to poor choice of damage calculation, enemy stacks will always have at least 10% of starting damage. This is beyond frustrating on so many levels but it seems to be the mechanics they want for this game. So getting 1 dog left alive is roughly the same as logically having 22-23 dogs left :(
Now there seems to be two options. The dogs are the main problem but the enemy bandits end up costing you a squad early on. Depending on terrain I would try either
1st strategy: 1 sworddancer 2 treant 2 archer (leaving the bandits to get that 1 shot)
2nd strategy: 2 treant 3 archer/golem (drastically reducing the bandits in round 1)
What stands out is that the golems barely get to harm the dogs before getting killed. It's a little unclear what happens and you seem to write it as losing 3 squads in round 1.
If possible that should be changed. in 1st strategy, replacing with treants, you get more hp on your stack and take out more dogs. If terrain allows you might even be able to block them off and save some of your archers. The sworddancers are there to die from the dogs so that you are guaranteed to have at least 1 full stack of archers to kill the bandits in round 2. Getting 90 dogs down in round 1, they should do a little less damage - and the -70 damage from treants should help quite a bit to keep some more troops alive. You'd still lose quite a lot of troops, but at least not as many.

For the 2nd strategy make sure the bandits go way down. Archers should be ok for that based on your report, I don't know if golems are fine too. You're first hitting so if you do not get two 70 kills you can retreat and try again, increasing the chance of doing the most damage. You can also try with golems to see if they are better at getting the bandits down. Golems have less initiative than treants so from my understanding they would also bring the benefit of having the dogs attack treants first. I suppose they might not have range enough to all hit the enemy bandits though :(

I suppose you thought of most of these things already. If there is nothing new at all, I'm sorry for wasting your time! You'll quite often run into having to change your strategy a bit to reduce losses. Good luck!
 

DeletedUser688

Guest
apparently there is some unclairty here.
in the first attempt
when i said "i let the dogs come close", i didn't mean, i let them strike first.
i positioned my guys just out of the reach of the dogs and waited for them to come close, then I moved in and struck first, but the stack of dogs was just so large, i was barely able to reduct their damage potential.

i don't understand why they had to make complicated damge formulas, they have a specific damage rating for the troops, why cam't the damage just be "the damage rating x the number of troops"? like archer II does 6-8 so why not have a stack of 100 do 600-800 while a stack of 50 does 300-400 and a stack of 5 does 30-40...but the way it is, it sounds like the stack of 5...even if only 1 guy was left, that 1 guy would still do 60-80 da,age and that makes no sense.


also in the first attempt, i had never tried to fight a stack of enemies so dang large and did not expect them to kill my guys so easily.
i dunno why 80 computer bandits did such massive damage while my 72 archer II could not. I guess because the stack was 80/218 and not 80/80 they did a lot more damage than they otherwise should have.

and yeah i miscalculated on the first attempt, somehow the bandits positioned themselves in such a way they were able to shoot my treants but still managed to stay out of reach of my golems.

in the second attempt, i stayed and fought to the death, because i knew that if I could only kill those bandits, even if i lost my archers, i could kill the dogs with the treants...i still barely won, because i was unprepared for the damage.

what's crazy is that even of i made it all the way to the end of the research trees and unlocked all the squad size increases, my max squad size would only be like 180 or 192, so already in the 6th ring, i'm seeing squads that are bigger than we can ever get.

of course i realize it was only 2 squads, but i saw other battles against 4 squads all with 158 guys. and a battle against 6x 118


whatever, it doesn't matter, i stopped playing, i got bored of all the waiting. i'm not being sour grapes, i'm just letting you all know i quit so if you don't want to answer anymore, it's okay.
I also answered again because apparently, i get an email notification every time someone responds to this...i thought I cut all my ties.
 
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