The Case for the Elf Sorcerer and a few other maligned troops

[StarLoad]

Elf Sorcerers are weaker than their Human counterparts, I get that but in the reality of the game that does not really matter.
Blossom Mages are Fantastic and is my go-to Mage in Tournaments and Spire but not for clearing Provinces. I would rather lose 100 Bud Sorcerers than 10 Blossom Mages.

So I use my Sorcerers, Sword Acrobats, Dogs, and Golems to clear provinces. Just finishing Constructs on Elcy and province clearing is all I am doing, I could use any troops but why waste even a few Blossom Mages, Frogs, or Drone Riders when I have lots of other troops I get for free from the Bulwark, Flying Academy, and SoSS.

I keep seeing people bashing the Bud Sorcerers and others as fodder, but for low cost or free and for clearing out provinces where for the most part the Squad size is 2:1 in favor or better, where you may only be facing 3 or fewer troops in total or only 3 types of troops, and with the Fire Chicken they are an easy victory on Auto. Maligned as they are in the forums there is a place and usefulness for most all the troops and by utilizing alternates you can make your primary troops last longer.

Now some may disagree but that is your opinion, I just think the players that are here and sound like "experts" need to be careful on how they tell new players what to do or not.

Ed

 

[Lelanya]

Aww Ed. I remember the sorceress from before she was nerfed. She moved 3 with a range of 4, and she really kicked it! I knew players that feared to meet her on the field. And now Orcs just slice her up - so sad.

 

[StarLoad]

Aww Ed. I remember the sorceress from before she was nerfed. She moved 3 with a range of 4, and she really kicked it! I knew players that feared to meet her on the field. And now Orcs just slice her up - so sad.

But in province battles, She still holds her own and saves many blossoms from the extra work.

 

[Gladiola]

I am about to unlock 2-star sorceresses. Hopefully they get better because so far I cringe when I see a battle that calls for sorceresses.

 

[Lelanya]

You are on the right track though, in that Barracks troops are the most flexible ones. I use my glitzy glammy troops but still rely heavily on the Barracks productions. Golems are good on auto (so long as I don't have to watch them fail to strikeback). Don't ask me to watch Treants lumber around, ugh.

 

[Gladiola]

@Lelanya I love my golems (and I exclusively autofight). I think I use golems and archers as much as the other troops combined, but mostly golems.

 

[Fayeanne]

I keep seeing people bashing the Bud Sorcerers and others as fodder, but for low cost or free and for clearing out provinces where for the most part the Squad size is 2:1 in favor or better, where you may only be facing 3 or fewer troops in total or only 3 types of troops, and with the Fire Chicken they are an easy victory on Auto.

You realize you're not helping your case here, right? Pretty much any units will win at 2:1 odds, and you are basically saying use Sorceresses as fodder when you don't want to waste good units.

Having said that, yes, the Sorceress can win fights. Their main downsides are that they are much more negatively impacted by terrain and they must put themselves into attack range in order to deal any damage, which means they tend to suffer greater losses overall even when all other things are equal. (These same things could be said of the Banshee, which isn't discussed much.)

 

[Darielle]

You realize you're not helping your case here, right? Pretty much any units will win at 2:1 odds, and you are basically saying use Sorceresses as fodder when you don't want to waste good units.

Exactly what I was thinking, Fayeanne.

 

[The Unbeliever]

Saying "this garbage unit is usable when you have a ton of buffs on it AND when it can fight with 2x or more squad size vs. under powered enemies!" doesn't make those troops suddenly not suck.

Honestly, I'd still use the vastly superior troops since they will typically;
a) suffer 0 losses, or else so few it doesn't even register.
b) they won't require the use of ANY combat boosters. (which can be critical if/when you need a few province encounters during an event when the Spire and/or Tournament are locked out)


Sure, I still use Barbies and/or Valorians/Pallies occasionally when I play the Spire/Tournaments too.
But I use them because I don't care that they'll die in droves, AND, it's usually in a fight where I am wanting to save my better troops vs. potentially sacrificing a decent number of them.

The crappy troops become usable once they are acquired for free via AW's/event buildings that you're already building for another purpose. (ie: Bulwark isn't built for the Barbies/Sword Prancers, but for the massive training size boost!)
Those 'free' troops mean you rarely, if ever need to spend resources training them, and can instead focus that many more resources into training even more actually usable troops instead!

 

[StarLoad]

You realize you're not helping your case here, right? Pretty much any units will win at 2:1 odds, and you are basically saying use Sorceresses as fodder when you don't want to waste good units.

...

This is my point rather than dismiss them let them be the fodder. Too often "Well-Known Member's" here are saying to not bother with them and yet the low chapter players only have Barracks and Training Grounds to build troops with. They can be useful and an asset if used in the proper venue.

 

[ajqtrz]

All of which may mean that using ALL your troops is better than using only the "really good" ones. I regularly throw my "canon fodder" at the easier challenges exactly because I know I'll need my really good troops later on. So, the OP is right, that the strength of a particular troop is pretty much irrelevant, it's where and how you use them in an overall balanced strategy.

AJ

 

[Dew Spinner]

This is my point rather than dismiss them let them be the fodder. Too often "Well-Known Member's" here are saying to not bother with them and yet the low chapter players only have Barracks and Training Grounds to build troops with. They can be useful and an asset if used in the proper venue.

I agree, I read a lot about how lousy they were when I was new and then through trial and error learned which enemy line ups to use them in and voila, useful troop to me. And I don't have to train a alot of them, leaving slots open for other troops. They are more of a specialty troop, used only when the enemy line up is just right, which isn't often but when it is they work just fine.

 

[mucksterme]

. Golems are good on auto (so long as I don't have to watch them fail to strikeback). Don't ask me to watch Treants lumber around, ugh.

lol
Truth

And as for "older" members

I'm on the edge of Chapter 18 and I still use barracks troops a lot.
Partly because they are more easily replaced.
But also because they do just fine in the earlier tourny rounds.

 

[SoggyShorts]

This is my point rather than dismiss them let them be the fodder. Too often "Well-Known Member's" here are saying to not bother with them and yet the low chapter players only have Barracks and Training Grounds to build troops with. They can be useful and an asset if used in the proper venue.

I feel that those posts must be out of context, do you have any links?

I absolutely agree that players shouldn't bother with training

bud sorcs if they have access to blossoms.​

mortars if they have access to frogs​

sword dancers/barbs if they have access to dogs​

There are some short exceptions where you have access to advanced level buds/morts/barbs and low-level blossom/frog/dog but for the most part, the deciding factor in fights is who hits first, and range/initiative decides that.

 

[Dew Spinner]

I feel that those posts must be out of context, do you have any links?

I absolutely agree that players shouldn't bother with

bud sorcs if they have access to blossoms.​

mortars if they have access to frogs​

sword dancers/barbs if they have access to dogs​

There are some short exceptions where you have access to advanced level buds/morts/barbs and low-level blossom/frog/dog but for the most part, the deciding factor in fights is who hits first, and range/initiative decides that.

If I am in a spire fight that only has Hvy Melee and Hvy Ranged, I will use Buds to save my Blossom and Banshee for higher level floors, same with lower level tournament fights compared to higher level tournament fights. I could easily use Blossom or Banshee but why lose them when Buds will do the job. I have learned not to send in Buds against other mages even if they are buffed and definitely not when there are Lgt Ranged or Dogs.

 

[SoggyShorts]

If I am in a spire fight that only has Hvy Melee and Hvy Ranged, I will use Buds to save my Blossom and Banshee for higher level floors, same with lower level tournament fights compared to higher level tournament fights. I could easily use Blossom or Banshee but why lose them when Buds will do the job. I have learned not to send in Buds against other mages even if they are buffed and definitely not when there are Lgt Ranged.

Again, just like others have said, if you have free cannon fodder of course you use them instead of good troops.
That doesn't mean the fodder is good, and you probably shouldn't bother training more of them.

I have a bulwark that gives me dancers, and a Flying academy that gives me buds and I too use them in any fight that they can win, but I never train them on purpose.

 

[SoggyShorts]

This is my point rather than dismiss them let them be the fodder.
Too often "Well-Known Member's" here are saying to not bother with them

I think I've found the miscommunication. Feel free to correct me if you find a specific example where someone said otherwise, but

When someone dismisses bud sorcs as being crappy, they are dismissing them as fodder.
When someone says "don't bother with buds, blossoms are better" they mean to say "don't bother with training buds"

 

[Dew Spinner]

I train them some but I "use" them, I didn't buy into the idea that they were useless troops and not everyone is at the level to get free Buds, so training would be applicable there. I keep a supply of them but I don't have to train them very much because they are a niche troop, therefore I don't use them much but often enough.

 

[StarLoad]

I think I've found the miscommunication. Feel free to correct me if you find a specific example where someone said otherwise, but

When someone dismisses bud sorcs as being crappy, they are dismissing them as fodder.
When someone says "don't bother with buds, blossoms are better" they mean to say "don't bother with training buds"

As usual Soggy gets to the meat of it. When any of us "Well-Known Member's" make definitive statements declaring an absolute fact, the players in the low chapters has no way to know that said statements are only applicable to players at the same high level. Much the way the recent ToS thread completely ignored the OP's chapter. Others in lower chapters read these posts and may get the wrong directions from them.

 

[Dew Spinner]

As usual Soggy gets to the meat of it. When any of us "Well-Known Member's" make definitive statements declaring an absolute fact, the players in the low chapters has no way to know that said statements are only applicable to players at the same high level. Much the way the recent ToS thread completely ignored the OP's chapter. Others in lower chapters read these posts and may get the wrong directions from them.

And as far as the TOS, it's a new game now with the tournament changes, so the "old" theories are not the best theories anymore!