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    Your Elvenar Team

The demands of leadership

Risen Malchiah

Well-Known Member
I'm curious to hear from mages & archmages regarding burnout and how you handle the responsibilities of leadership as you juggle the game with your everyday life. I've been in multiple fellowships where leaders have disappeared, sometimes without warning, and I've heard others have had similar experiences.

My first fellowship had an absentee archmage, but the guild was somewhat casual, so I kind of understood. My second fellowship had changed leadership just prior to me joining and the new archmage had some personality conflicts with the mages and abruptly left rather than fight the status quo. My third fellowship was really active and I enjoyed it, but in the 6 months I was there, I never once met the archmage. I eventually left after it was clear the fellowship was too casual for my taste.

In another city, one archmage simply stopped logging into Elvenar without warning and also didn't respond to inquiries on Facebook. I still never found out what happened and can only assume that either something bad happened, or she simply got overwhelmed and decided not to come back.

I've also had a fellowship in which the archmage said she was busy with real life and that maybe she'd be back in 6 months. :eek: I understand real life takes precedence but 6 months without explanation? (I've entertained the thought that she's an international assassin or she went to jail for ripping the tag off her mattress.) :)

Is this a phenomenon that archmages become overwhelmed and abandon their fellowships because they don't (or can't ) make the tough decision to instate a replacement? Or am I just lucky?
 

mucksterme

Oh Wise One
First off, there are reasons somebody may disappear without warning. A personal tragedy, a loss of internet for some reason, or maybe a dead computer.
In my experience, AMs don't usually just leave without warning because of burnout or boredom.
Usually they will give some warning and pass the baton to another player.
I've even seen an AM ask the members to vote on a replacement.

There's been a few times I've seen people on the forum or elsewhere panic because their AM has gone AWOL. But it should be noted that as long as you have at least one mage, the loss of the AM is not really a disaster. The only thing an AM can do that a mage can't, is appoint a new AM. So you can still operate, and after a time ( thirty days I think ) if the AM stays inactive you can ask the mods to remove them.
 

Risen Malchiah

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I know fellowships which have had an inactive AM replaced using support tickets. I was just curious how prevalent this experience is since it seems to happen more frequently than I would have expected, even though it's probably a rare occurrence.
 

HJK84

Well-Known Member
I think it happens quite often on Elvenar.
Without taking under consideration a tragedy.

One thing that comes to mind is, Elvenar offers a person to have many cities, in different worlds. This Imo. hinders people from putting in alot of care, for 1 particular World.
And if the player is a AM in one of the worlds... well, makes sense they'll slowly be more absent. Specially if the other cities/city they have are more developed, better friends, more active, etc.

I myself have alot of time on my hands, but still concentrate on 1 city.
I've lead many game groups, still have one on a gaming site, been over a decade... which I payed thousands to take over, instead of seeing all my friends leave and join others, etc. I still check on it daily, but 90% of my friends haven't been on for years. Many were military men, so... I'm hoping their all right but just decided to not game anymore (keeping it optimistic)
One of the great friends I made on their. She even had her gaming stuff in her will, to be given to X person, etc.

Same can happen here.
Imo. only a tragedy as mentioned is a valid enough reason for me.
If you're a AM, you've taken responsibility, cause you care, and are a good leader.
Losing internet, shouldn't be a excuse... it's 2018, lol
And mostly other things can be warned in advance.

@Risen Malchiah Just bad luck I suppose. Or you didn't research enough the FS and the AM before you joined? Or they mislead you, which I am totally against. Shame! :mad:
 

Risen Malchiah

Well-Known Member
I've lead many game groups, still have one on a gaming site, been over a decade... which I payed thousands to take over, instead of seeing all my friends leave and join others, etc. I still check on it daily, but 90% of my friends haven't been on for years.
You have me curious what game fascinated you so much that you'd pay thousands. My guess would be Eve Online? I've heard amazing things but never had the chance to play since I was playing too many other mmorpgs (Earth & Beyond til it ended, WoW, The Secret World).
Just bad luck I suppose. Or you didn't research enough the FS and the AM before you joined? Or they mislead you, which I am totally against. Shame! :mad:
Well, much of this was prior to Elvenstats where we can now see the approximate activity level of a fellowship before joining. I'm quite happy with my current homes, both of which have great activity (and space available for more members).
 

DeletedUser9601

Guest
I've only been playing seriously on 1 world, and only been in 2 real FSes, so my experience is limited. But I think burnout/disillusionment/whatever is definitely real for a lot of AMs, but I think its less than it is for clan leaders or equivalents in most other online games. If only because Elvenar, by its nature, is a lot slower paced, and the friction points are a lot fewer.

In my previous FS, the AM abdicated due to having too much work (had a quasi-seasonal job that was spiking up alot), and she announced her successor that most of the more senior folks agreed to/applauded. It didn't really work out, for many reasons, but it was a smooth transition.

I think Elvenar more than many games makes it almost too easy for the "wrong" person to become AM. And I don't mean "wrong" as in, you are bad at the role. I mean wrong in that you might not have leadership traits in your personality, or that you aren't really looking to lead. Its pretty easy to form a Fellowship, invite a few people, and organically over time you might be leading 20+ random players. And you may not have "done" much to get to that point, other than set forth a few basic platitudes that 90% of FSes have (participate in tourneys/FAs, but nothing mandatory; try to balance boosts of recruits; no drama; etc etc).

So by the time a friction point arises, that AM of the FS that they didn't need to "lead" a whole lot to build may not be (and may not want) to "lead" through the friction.

In many other games (I use WoW as my baseline since I spent way too much time there), a guild leader generally has to "prove it" and offer up leadership traits earlier on, and continue to display and hone those skills. You might be on voice chat, or engaging in real-time competitive portions of the game, or you might have meaningful strategy decisions to be making. And you're typically doing that much sooner and much more frequently than Elvenar.
 

Risen Malchiah

Well-Known Member
I think burnout/disillusionment/whatever is definitely real for a lot of AMs, but I think its less than it is for clan leaders or equivalents in most other online games. If only because Elvenar, by its nature, is a lot slower paced, and the friction points are a lot fewer...

In many other games (I use WoW as my baseline since I spent way too much time there), a guild leader generally has to "prove it" and offer up leadership traits earlier on, and continue to display and hone those skills. You might be on voice chat, or engaging in real-time competitive portions of the game, or you might have meaningful strategy decisions to be making. And you're typically doing that much sooner and much more frequently than Elvenar.
A game like Warcraft definitely requires a lot more "hands on" leadership to manage the guild and make sure players are geared and ready. It also might involve managing a website for scheduling as well as leading or delegating leaders for raids, etc. And I definitely encountered more friction in other games than here in Elvenar. Though friction here is rare, I've seen simple disagreements grow to much larger arguments that result in people leaving a fellowship.

I might be tempted to compare Fellowship Adventures to a week-long "raid." Unless the fellowship takes a very casual approach, making sure everyone is building the right badges and/or sticking to the correct paths can be overwhelming or time-consuming. For some FAs, I barely slept that week as I felt I needed to log in every few hours. I would consider using a spreadsheet, but I have yet to see an FA spreadsheet that was "simple" enough for my taste or for others to use without instructions.

In the past year, Elvenar has transformed from a slow-paced background game to a much more involved engagement that might require large chunks of time sprinkled throughout the day. This would only get compounded with multiple cities and/or a leadership role. (Understand, I'm not complaining. Just trying to ascertain what might cause some to burn out while others have great success and flourish.)
 

DeletedUser9601

Guest
I might be tempted to compare Fellowship Adventures to a week-long "raid." Unless the fellowship takes a very casual approach, making sure everyone is building the right badges and/or sticking to the correct paths can be overwhelming or time-consuming. For some FAs, I barely slept that week as I felt I needed to log in every few hours. I would consider using a spreadsheet, but I have yet to see an FA spreadsheet that was "simple" enough for my taste or for others to use without instructions.
I think that's a fair comparison, and I think that's why FAs are causing friction among FSes in a ways that hasn't really come up before (except with respect to pure personality clashes). They really require an FS to think and act very differently to succeed, and it pushes a lot of FSes (and therefore AMs and Mages) to exert more leadership and more authority.

From personal experience, in our early FAs, we had a lot of angst over "wasted" badges because so-and-so wasn't paying attention, and fed Orange instead of Blue. But it was a laid-back FA approach, so how do you reprimand this person? Is it worth kicking them out of the FS?

The FAs made a lot of FSes re-assess their goals and their culture, because when most people joined (especially for older or higher-ranked FSes) the expectations were different, because the game was different. None of this is a bad thing, but it definitely would explain burnout and tension.
 

Deborah M

Oh Wise One
I have a question about AM. It has been quite a while since I was AM. Months ago in one of my small cities the AM left. She made me AM without a word. Now I want to remove inactive players. I really can't remember how to remove them. I thought it was in the drop-down where you change the titles but it's not there. Can somebody please remind me how to remove somebody?
 

DeletedUser17667

Guest
@Deborah M easy peasy! :D

members.png


Go to Members tab, then click on the name of the member you want to expel, then choose that option from the little drop-down.
 

DeletedUser4955

Guest
I've avoided burn out by sharing the responsibilities of leadership. My fellowship was created when issues caused several of us to leave the FS we were in. I was kind of volunteered into the position of archmage so my philosophy has been to share the load based on people's interests. Because of this our FS is run by a small group of more active members rather than me being in charge of everything. Members have taken on responsibilities like maintaining our AW system, getting and posting info on quest tasks, even directing decisions during Adventures or tournaments. Sometimes it happened naturally, other time player were more officially given the role. I'm more of our recruiter and make the final decision when needed.

Members are free to bring up issues, which are discussed and we work toward consensus. Managing issues has at times been stressful especially when dealing with strong-willed or immature players. There have been times when I felt like walking away. That is where having my 'sane' members to get sound feedback from has been so helpful.

I have been playing less recently. Myself and others have had a lot of real life issues keeping us away from the game. More active players have left to other fellowships because of this decline in play...even founding members. I love chatting with my FS about the game, kidding around, supporting each other. Things are real quiet lately. It is like playing alone some days. So leaders maybe leaving due to changing dynamics in a fellowship's make up. Like other players, they choose to find a new group rather than fix things where they are.
 

Risen Malchiah

Well-Known Member
I've avoided burn out by sharing the responsibilities of leadership...

Managing issues has at times been stressful especially when dealing with strong-willed or immature players. There have been times when I felt like walking away. That is where having my 'sane' members to get sound feedback from has been so helpful.
I like the idea of sharing responsibilities with other leaders and perhaps that is the greatest way to avoid burnout (and to have people you can rely on when you're inevitably busy or away). I wonder do you think if you didn't have those people to rely on, perhaps you would have walked away?

Things are real quiet lately. It is like playing alone some days. So leaders maybe leaving due to changing dynamics in a fellowship's make up. Like other players, they choose to find a new group rather than fix things where they are.
It seems your fellow players didn't avoid getting burnt out in the same way you did. I wonder if this game is deceptively more challenging to lead than we'd like to believe it to be. (Or the relative decline in activity led others who aren't burnt out to seek more activity elsewhere.)

I will say, I only reach "burnout" phase during FA. At all other times, I'm usually wanting *more* activity from my fellowships rather than less. But players who have been around a long time are not easy to motivate to doing more than they're used to.
 

DeletedUser12171

Guest
I wonder if this game is deceptively more challenging to lead than we'd like to believe it to be. (Or the relative decline in activity led others who aren't burnt out to seek more activity elsewhere.)

People will be people. In an online game, people can be more easy going because it's a game or people behave worse than they usually do because they're behind a screen. Most times, however, I think, people just be themselves. If you worked with people IRL and find it a challenge, then working with people online isn't so much different. IRL you can't simply walk away from every challenging relationship. But here, since your life doesn't hinge on the game, the best you can do is move around till you find people who are like-minded and agree to play with common goals
 

Risen Malchiah

Well-Known Member
IRL you can't simply walk away from every challenging relationship. But here, since your life doesn't hinge on the game, the best you can do is move around till you find people who are like-minded and agree to play with common goals
Very well said. Walking away is certainly easier in a game (and less awkward conversations). I get along with virtually everyone (including people I secretly dislike) but have often found it difficult to "walk away" from friendships that I find mentally or physically draining. It's a shame that many of the friends I find most entertaining and/or inspiring end up moving out of state while the ones who stick around are those "friends" that are just sorta there because they've always been there. I'm sure everyone has some of those. :p
 

DeletedUser16555

Guest
As Arcamage to 2 home grown Fellowships, when I say home grown I mean that all members joined on their own accord, I have found that if you communicate with your group you will find the strongest personalities will show them selves first, these are the folks that you want to cultivate into Mages. By doing this I have two friendly and active Fellowships that act more like a family than just a group of friends. The other thing I do is to delegate authority to my Mages, in both Fellowships, the Mages and I share the power and responsibility of running the Fellowship. I feel that this cuts down on the burn out of trying to do it all your self, I also think it makes the fellows your leading more at ease to ask questions and be more vocal and open about issues that they need help with.
 

DeletedUser4955

Guest
I have been playing less recently. Myself and others have had a lot of real life issues keeping us away from the game. More active players have left to other fellowships because of this decline in play...even founding members. I love chatting with my FS about the game, kidding around, supporting each other. Things are real quiet lately. It is like playing alone some days. So leaders maybe leaving due to changing dynamics in a fellowship's make up. Like other players, they choose to find a new group rather than fix things where they are.

Interesting developments are in progress to address this issue with my FS. We have agreed as a group to merge with another FS. I'm stepping down as archmage and we are joining the other fellowship. My members were very positive about the move, so I am looking forward to a positive outcome...fingers crossed.
 

Risen Malchiah

Well-Known Member
Interesting developments are in progress to address this issue with my FS. We have agreed as a group to merge with another FS. I'm stepping down as archmage and we are joining the other fellowship. My members were very positive about the move, so I am looking forward to a positive outcome...fingers crossed.
In your case, that does seem to be the best option. Hopefully this will stem the tide of departures and keep everyone happy.

I'm curious how the merge goes between your players and the host fellowship. Sometimes that works out very well. Other times, disagreements cause friction, but ultimately it's better than 2 half-filled fellowships.
 
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