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Your Elvenar Team
Mykan
Oh Wise One
But scarcity all depends on where they are in the tech tree and what is in demand. Recently on Arendyl I swear half the server hit the same tech trades for a certain sentient good went through the roof. As people start to get past it the trading gets easier for that good and the next road block becomes high demand. We saw the same effect for the past 3 chapters, its just this chapter has blown it out of proportion because of the sheer volume needed.
Deleted User - 3932582
Guest
This sounds logical, and this is what I expected, but not what I observed. At least on Ceravyn, shortages seem to be fairly consistent over time (last month), perhaps sometimes just somewhat better or worse, but not flipping between goods. Perhaps Arendyl as a bigger server has more balanced production overall, so peloton moving through the chapter has a more pronounced impact. I feel that on smaller servers the underlying production of sentients, especially T6, is simply strongly skewed because just not that many people reached that stage, so random nature of the boosts distorts supply situation.
Ashrem
Oh Wise One
I wasn't implying that T5 is more scarce than anything else. Only that when there is a shortage of soemthing in T5, it tends to be because of a scarcity in the T2 input, because T2 tends to have a lower availability than the other non-sentients.
DeletedUser2870
Guest
People for some reason are stuck on the idea they have to post at the 'fair' rate. I have no problems getting my trades filled because I look at it differently.
If my boost is 700% (in my case +80% from the Timewarp for sentient goods or +200% from the Mountain Halls) why would I post at 1:1?
It is always better to produce only your boosted goods and trade with a discount than try to produce the other stuff yourself, so I almost never put up trades at 1:1. A 5% discount will help a lot already, a 10% discount will get stuff moved much faster. A 15% discount even more so. The discount I offer increases with the amounts.
So for instance 2100:2000, 5300:5000, 110000:10000, 28000:25000, 60000:50000.
In case of the sentient goods, I tend to spell the factories to increase production even more, then offer a discount. It's very rare for my trades to sit even 10 hours, let alone 24
My main problem is that different servers seem to have shortages on different goods. On Elcysandir for the longest time I had a hard time getting enough elixer, while it was hard even giving my boosted dust away and the same problem again with the boosted goods, bismuth everywhere, soap very hard to get.
Same goes for the other tiers as well. Seems that with the random setting of goods each server for some reason gets a set of goods that is more rare than others.
The shortage we had in my previous FS for elixer was a problem we had for at least 2 years, until I switched a few weeks ago, so it wasn't exactly depending on the advancement through the techtree.
If my boost is 700% (in my case +80% from the Timewarp for sentient goods or +200% from the Mountain Halls) why would I post at 1:1?
It is always better to produce only your boosted goods and trade with a discount than try to produce the other stuff yourself, so I almost never put up trades at 1:1. A 5% discount will help a lot already, a 10% discount will get stuff moved much faster. A 15% discount even more so. The discount I offer increases with the amounts.
So for instance 2100:2000, 5300:5000, 110000:10000, 28000:25000, 60000:50000.
In case of the sentient goods, I tend to spell the factories to increase production even more, then offer a discount. It's very rare for my trades to sit even 10 hours, let alone 24
My main problem is that different servers seem to have shortages on different goods. On Elcysandir for the longest time I had a hard time getting enough elixer, while it was hard even giving my boosted dust away and the same problem again with the boosted goods, bismuth everywhere, soap very hard to get.
Same goes for the other tiers as well. Seems that with the random setting of goods each server for some reason gets a set of goods that is more rare than others.
The shortage we had in my previous FS for elixer was a problem we had for at least 2 years, until I switched a few weeks ago, so it wasn't exactly depending on the advancement through the techtree.
DeletedUser2959
Guest
My city is human. I must say the new artwork is amazing! I love the new residences, workshops and the new Barracks(!!!) is amazing. Looking forward to the new Main Hall. Very, very well done, folks.
Deborah M
Oh Wise One
I completely agree except for the Main Hall. I feel like we got jipped compared to Elves Main Hall
CHANDY
Member
Hang in there Enevhar with 250 k soap needed for the elvenar harp player branch you will soon be in high demand. I will certainly be looking for you when I place my trades.
DeletedUser2959
Guest
Mine is still building so I must reserve judgementI completely agree except for the Main Hall. I feel like we got jipped compared to Elves Main Hall
I feel ya brother, my boost is soap as well. It'll even out eventually.
Shyama1
Active Member
Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
Finally got through the three researches that required the tedious production of the goods in the three middle buildings, so now I am just restricted by how quickly I can get the sentient goods and fill the KP for each research. The first two researches for the Vault are also done and I am now working on the Council Hall upgrade research. Once I get that to level four, and have the max storage, I will see how far I will get before my portal profits run dry.
DeletedUser2870
Guest
@Enevhar Aldarion
Same here. The middle productions take forever. I have 3 sets of the middle-productions up, but it still is a very long, tedious wait.
Techlocked (again), so my KPs just go into AWs while I wait for those productions to be finished so I can unlock the rest of the techs. The upgrade of my portal is almost done, but I'm pretty sure I can finish the rest with just the PPs...once I get to have the about 10.000 of each of the middle ones that is. Never even upgraded the academies above lvl 2. By the time I unlocked that tech I already had more than I needed. Very bad planning in the progression of the tree.
Same for the expansions btw, both are available only after one has unlocked -and needed- all the buildings, so for the progress in the chapter itself they are worthless.
The only good thing about that is one could theoretically leave all the buildings up to keep producing everything so one would save PPs. The disadvantage obviously being having no space for much else, so participation in events that require a lot of buildings, or a lot of upgraded buildings is out during that time. And considering the time it takes to produce everything that would be many, many months
Same here. The middle productions take forever. I have 3 sets of the middle-productions up, but it still is a very long, tedious wait.
Techlocked (again), so my KPs just go into AWs while I wait for those productions to be finished so I can unlock the rest of the techs. The upgrade of my portal is almost done, but I'm pretty sure I can finish the rest with just the PPs...once I get to have the about 10.000 of each of the middle ones that is. Never even upgraded the academies above lvl 2. By the time I unlocked that tech I already had more than I needed. Very bad planning in the progression of the tree.
Same for the expansions btw, both are available only after one has unlocked -and needed- all the buildings, so for the progress in the chapter itself they are worthless.
The only good thing about that is one could theoretically leave all the buildings up to keep producing everything so one would save PPs. The disadvantage obviously being having no space for much else, so participation in events that require a lot of buildings, or a lot of upgraded buildings is out during that time. And considering the time it takes to produce everything that would be many, many months
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DeletedUser1390
Guest
I just realized the Elvenar (lvl 34) workshops are only one square bigger than the previous, but produce over 2.5x more supplies. I'm not exactly complaining, but this seems nuts - does anyone know the reason for this?
DeletedUser2870
Guest
@Elven Ivory
I didn't realize that either. And that's only after the first of the 2 upgrades! Seems rather out of sync as a T1 factory going from 27 to 28 only gets to produce about 1.34x as much, while a workshop going from 33 to 34 gets to produce 2.65x as much.
The only thing I can think off is to have people have the ability to sell off 1-3 workshops to free up pop while maintaining about the same amount of supplies, as the demand for pop for the factories seems extremely high. Residences get 400 extra pop/upgrade, so 800 total/residence, but to upgrade a single T1 steelfactory 1 level requires 3587 pop (while the combined total at 27 is 6529, so it requires 0.55x the amount of pop already there to upgrade it 1 lvl), and to level it all the way the max requires 8711 pop. So one basically needs to up 11 residences to max out 1 factory. That is completely out of touch with reality. Even if one was going to playing with only 2T1 and 2T4 factories, maxing them would be 34844 pop, or 43.6 residences. And that is NOT counting the pop needed to upgrade the Main Hall, workshops, barracks and armouries yet.
To me this kind of thing seems to indicate that (again) the devs have no clue of going about actually playing the game, but just design stuff from behind their desk and only test it in testenvironments where the normal restrictions don't apply. Especially since selling off some workshops is not even going to be close to be enough AND it will hamper players severely in events with the requirement of upgraded buildings.
(edit)
The amount of extra pop needed for the factories is ridiculously high when compared to the rather low increase in goods. The total added pop per (steel)factory is 1.33x of what was needed to get it to level 27. And the space needed increases as well, but the yield only increases by 1.27x when it is totally maxed out so it becomes LESS efficient per tile. HELLOOOOOOO... @InnoGames ....anybody home to explain this retarded set-up? Sorry, no other word for that.
I didn't realize that either. And that's only after the first of the 2 upgrades! Seems rather out of sync as a T1 factory going from 27 to 28 only gets to produce about 1.34x as much, while a workshop going from 33 to 34 gets to produce 2.65x as much.
The only thing I can think off is to have people have the ability to sell off 1-3 workshops to free up pop while maintaining about the same amount of supplies, as the demand for pop for the factories seems extremely high. Residences get 400 extra pop/upgrade, so 800 total/residence, but to upgrade a single T1 steelfactory 1 level requires 3587 pop (while the combined total at 27 is 6529, so it requires 0.55x the amount of pop already there to upgrade it 1 lvl), and to level it all the way the max requires 8711 pop. So one basically needs to up 11 residences to max out 1 factory. That is completely out of touch with reality. Even if one was going to playing with only 2T1 and 2T4 factories, maxing them would be 34844 pop, or 43.6 residences. And that is NOT counting the pop needed to upgrade the Main Hall, workshops, barracks and armouries yet.
To me this kind of thing seems to indicate that (again) the devs have no clue of going about actually playing the game, but just design stuff from behind their desk and only test it in testenvironments where the normal restrictions don't apply. Especially since selling off some workshops is not even going to be close to be enough AND it will hamper players severely in events with the requirement of upgraded buildings.
(edit)
The amount of extra pop needed for the factories is ridiculously high when compared to the rather low increase in goods. The total added pop per (steel)factory is 1.33x of what was needed to get it to level 27. And the space needed increases as well, but the yield only increases by 1.27x when it is totally maxed out so it becomes LESS efficient per tile. HELLOOOOOOO... @InnoGames ....anybody home to explain this retarded set-up? Sorry, no other word for that.
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Pheryll
Set Designer
The orc's nest also gets an unrealistic boost in that chapter. I think the main reason maybe that ancient wonder supply production was getting out of balance with respect to the workshops, and the solution was to have the new chapter be the fix.
DeletedUser2870
Guest
@Pheryll
Sorry, I just added something, because it ONLY works for the workshops (regular buildings that is). Factories need MORE pop, MORE space but end up being less effective/tile as the increase in yield there is less than the needs to up it.
As I said, seems the devs just seem to have no clue on the impact of their ideas, so I expect that at some point they will come up with some kind of idiotic action to 'balance' stuff that only is unbalanced because of their lack of understanding actually playing the game.
As far as the AWs production getting out of sync: one can have only 1 of each and they require a heavy investment, so as fas as I'm concerned they are SUPPOSED to be outdoing the regular buildings. If that actually was their reasoning it's beyond asinine.
Sorry, I just added something, because it ONLY works for the workshops (regular buildings that is). Factories need MORE pop, MORE space but end up being less effective/tile as the increase in yield there is less than the needs to up it.
As I said, seems the devs just seem to have no clue on the impact of their ideas, so I expect that at some point they will come up with some kind of idiotic action to 'balance' stuff that only is unbalanced because of their lack of understanding actually playing the game.
As far as the AWs production getting out of sync: one can have only 1 of each and they require a heavy investment, so as fas as I'm concerned they are SUPPOSED to be outdoing the regular buildings. If that actually was their reasoning it's beyond asinine.
Pheryll
Set Designer
The AWs are still better than the workshops, even with the production leap from this chapter.
DeletedUser2870
Guest
Of course they are, and they should be. Getting a workshop even close to the outputs of one of those that is even mid-level would require a boost way beyond this. My problem is the present boost is crappy. The extra supplies have almost no function at all, as one can only trade them at the rip-off saler for goods, but nothing else. So unless there is going to be something new that requires really huge amounts of supplies it sucks as it 'gives' something there is no use for in the game.
Using fewer workshops is an option, but one that screws the player big-time in events requiring leveled workshops, so in that aspect they do more harm than good as well as working with fewer ones makes events much, much harder
You made a suggestion on the reasoning behind the leap in output. I just pointed out that the devs actually reasoned that way they need to stop using whatever it is they are high on.
Pheryll
Set Designer
The streets in this chapter are expensive supply-wise as are the barracks and mercenary camp upgrades. But yes, when the chapter is completed and everything upgraded, you are sitting on a large supply income with little to apply it to.
DeletedUser2870
Guest
Anyone else noticed the incredible unbalanced need for goods in the techtree?
The required amounts of sentient goods is already ridiculously high, but it is leaning far too much to the T6 goods. Only some requirements for T4 and T5 goods, but after the first few techs it is ONLY T6 that is required. That also means that the market is being flooded with T6 goods. And that is likely to get worse as more people get to the end of the chapter and no longer have a need for huge amounts of these goods, but still do have those (extra) factories producing them.
For a game where they constantly have been going on about 'balancing' stuff again it seems incomprehensible they would deliberately put in such unbalanced requirements.
The required amounts of sentient goods is already ridiculously high, but it is leaning far too much to the T6 goods. Only some requirements for T4 and T5 goods, but after the first few techs it is ONLY T6 that is required. That also means that the market is being flooded with T6 goods. And that is likely to get worse as more people get to the end of the chapter and no longer have a need for huge amounts of these goods, but still do have those (extra) factories producing them.
For a game where they constantly have been going on about 'balancing' stuff again it seems incomprehensible they would deliberately put in such unbalanced requirements.