The Elvenar!

[Deleted User - 3932582]

@MinMax Gamer I'm doing OK with 1 T4 & 1 T5. I am almost done leveling up my 2nd T6 since on GoK it is T6 that is the highest amount to do the research tree. I do post 110% - 125% trades so I don't have much of a problem. It takes so long to get enough from the new buildings that I'm not having trouble doing that.

I don't think you've reached a point yet where it becomes a problem 1x T4 can be done even if slow, none of the researches need more than 100K or so, and for mids production you don't need to stockpile. But 3 gated researches (improved vault, residences and armory) require about 350K each of T5, and this will need to be stockpiled. Even with L11 Timewarp and L11 Simia you're going to have a hard time.

T6 have similar amounts per research, but it ramps up in the second half. On the other hand, unlike T5 that really only have 3 techs with gating requirements, pretty much every single research in the second half will need 300-400K of T6. With 2x manus these amounts are reachable, but each will take a while.

That's all assuming running 24/7 MM spells. Without that, the picture is bleaker

 

[Deborah M]

Good thing I already resigned myself to this chapter being a long, boring trudge The space this takes makes it impossible for me to build anything else since population is already strained so I would have to build for that too. I guess it beats in between chapters but not much better.

 

[DeletedUser6085]

Well, if someone struggles with any goods in this game (sentient or not), the answer is to build additional capacity. That, or adjust expectations

Not everyone has enough room to build extra manufactories for sentient or other goods.

 

[qaccy]

Not everyone has enough room to build extra manufactories for sentient or other goods.

Everyone has space. What people seem to get hung up on is when building something requires removing something else. That's always an option but too many people seem to think everything they build has to be permanent.

 

[Ashrem]

Everyone has space. What people seem to get hung up on is when building something requires removing something else. That's always an option but too many people seem to think everything they build has to be permanent.

Spoken like someone who has, what, 32 premium expansions?

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

Spoken like someone who has, what, 32 premium expansions?

The point is still valid though. Spoken as someone with only 7 premium expansions, all bought with free diamonds.

 

[Ashrem]

The point is still valid though. Spoken as someone with only 7 premium expansions, all bought with free diamonds.

Even only six makes a big difference. My city with zero premium expansions struggles a lot more with choices than my city with six. Yes, everyone has space. But it isn't solely a matter of removing things out of inertia. People without any premium space are regularly forced to make unpleasant decisions about efficiency vs appearance. Let alone decisions like one T6 factory vs 2.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

Even only six makes a big difference. My city with zero premium expansions struggles a lot more with choices than my city with six. Yes, everyone has space. But it isn't solely a matter of removing things out of inertia. People without any premium space are regularly forced to make unpleasant decisions about efficiency vs appearance. Let alone decisions like one T6 factory vs 2.

Absolutely, more space gives you more choices. But premium doesn't have to mean paid, as some people read it. Just like with improving efficiency of everything else, one can make a choice to target free diamonds and acquire those premium expansions. 6-7 premium expansions in the end game are totally doable for free even without running massive farms. I've got mine running only 4 WWs consistently from chapter 1 or so (plus diamonds for quests and MA). Those few WWs are not hard to acquire either, given that they last for 100 days.

 

[Ashrem]

It might no be sufficiently obvious, but I'm reacting to the "too many people seem to think everything they build has to be permanent ." I don't think there are many people past chapter three or four who suffer from that particular weakness, and the ones that do most likely quit playing without coming to the forum for advice. Hapzim has been playing for two years. I doubt their problem is a fear of tearing things down.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

Hapzim has been playing for two years. I doubt their problem is a fear of tearing things down.

Well, Hapzim has 139 and 141 expansions in two cities, with crapton of magic residences. I am running 9x sentient manus at the moment on 112 expansions. So allow me to express some skepticism when someone with almost 30 (!) more expansions says they can't squeeze in more production capacity

 

[Ashrem]

So allow me to express some skepticism

Okay, point to you on that one.

 

[DeletedUser2959]

Those teleport spells came just in the nick of time. I've got a lot of stuff parked in inventory so I can support 3 each sentient tiers. It would have been painful to sell off all that stuff. And that's on 124 expansions, using solely premium residences. I can't imagine trying to amass 350k T3 Sentient on one manufactory, what with decay.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

Chapter XV can be done in less than 60 days if one really pushes for it (that's F2P). But you don't have to. If you're not in a rush, just do it over several months, and admire the artwork while doing so. Also, this chapter gives you a target and an incentive to further optimize your city - if you've done all the chapters, there is really no need for further improvements unless you want to improve your tournament performance. Now you have something to shoot for.

If one doesn't sleep perhaps and is able to reset on the clock every 3 and 7 hours.
I'm a paying player and I expect I will take 3 months at least, maybe more. But then again, I tend to do more long runs anyway and I'm not in any big hurry.

But to be honest, although I like the fact that a lot of the research has to be completed by paying the extra goods and not the portal goods, thus circumventing people just skipping through by using the portal profit instants, the amount of goods needed/research seems extremely steep when considered to the yield.
175.000 workforce for 1 research while an academy produces (for me, at lvl 2) 1040 /3 hours (IF I can do the short runs that is) makes that alone take quite a while.
On the other hand, Elvenar is a game of patience anyway, so I don't really care if it does take me 3 or 4 months to get through.
I do have the feeling however that this chapter is the reason Inno caved and added the 'teleport building' spell as it gives players an opportunity to make room in their city without having to permanently scrap buildings one has spent so much time and effort on. I for one have moved several of my regular factories into my inventory and replaced them with sentient ones. When the chapter is done, I probably will have enough space (and pop) to move some back again and boost my goods that way again.

 

[Shyama1]

"Elvenar Style" Main Hall for Humans ? ​

The Upgrade of my Main Hall to level 34 just completed, and my first thought was censored, I went back one level ???

Then I checked on the wiki, and here are the Chapter 15 Main Halls, Human and Elves:

Human Main Hall, levels 34 and 35:

Elves Main Hall, levels 34 and 35:

As you can see, Elves get a nice brand new Main Hall in the Elvenar Guest Race Style.

While us Humans, just get buildings of the same style as Chapter 14, barely modified.

Our other buildings that get an upgrade in Chapter 15, like Barracks, Training Grounds, Armories, Residences, etc... all benefit from the new "Elvenar look".

BTW I relly love the new Residences, they are really cute and beatifull, and for the first time my residential area doesn't looks like a big blue blob, but we can clearly see individual buildings.

Even the Planks factories (which nevertheless belong to Woodelves) get a little something of this Elvenar look when upgraded above level 27.

And our Main Hall, which is the most important building in our City, was simply ignored ??? I can hardly believe this, and I hope it is explained only by a lack of time and your willing to release the new chapter quickly.

I really hope your designers are working on a decent Main Hall for us Humans, and that we can expect to receive this beautiful Elvenar style Main Hall very soon.

Thanks
Shyama1

 

[DeletedUser2959]

I hope so. The artwork is a big part of what keeps me interested in the game. It really is beautiful.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I have come to the decision that the devs went too overboard in how long they made this chapter. It will take so much time for each research that I am losing interest in this chapter. I am working on the first Vault of Wisdom research and it will take me 15 days just to make the goods needed to complete the research. That is with one set of the middle production buildings, so even if I had room for a second set, that would still be 7-8 days just to get the needed goods.

 

[Deborah M]

I completely agree! Finally getting this chapter does not feel like a plus to me. It has not added to my enjoyment of the game. Every day is the same just trudging through all the productions that take forever to get anywhere. It's not really any different than in between chapters when there isn't much to do except start & collect productions throughout the day. I did finally get frustrated enough to add a 3rd set but it was not a happy thing having to store buildings I didn't want to store. If they didn't have the teleport spell I'm not sure I would even be able to do more than one set of these buildings. One of the the things that does not seem thought out very well is the 7 hour productions with such small quantities. I should set a timer because with 2 runs in daytime taking 14 hrs it is really easy to miss the 2nd one. Heaven forbid I sleep a little late. This is a real shame! I thought it looked like stupid high amounts of sentient goods just to find out that it is not all that hard to accumulate them and then sit and wait for the guest goods. How hard would it have been to make some correlation? IDK but this is just plain boring and frustrating. I also think it really sucks that the 2 research expansions don't come until everything is already built. That just seems kind of rude to me that they didn't even have one that would help with the chapter buidings. Also still waiting to get a good % sale so I can buy the last premium expansion. Not funny how those sales seem to have disappeared

 

[DeletedUser2870]

@Enevhar Aldarion @Deborah M
I felt the same way at first and I'm at the same point, working on getting the goods for the Vault, though I do have 2 sets of each of the middle ones.
However, if one looks at the research tree and at the goods needed you can see that just a few techs along one can literally pretty much walk through since all the needed goods in the second half are the portal goods. Though it is true it will take forever if one continue to have to build the academy goods to build the agriculture/atelier/factory and then the vaultgoods in order to finish the research, there is a serious shortcut. ALL of the last half of the tech-tree can be done using the PP-instants.
I do't know how many PP instants other people have, but I have somewhere around 2000% worth all in all, so enough to instantly fill the portal 20 times. And these instants are becoming more common.
Personally I think they set it up this way to slow up people so they wouldn't rush through the entire chapter but have to go at least the first half using the actual guestrace buildings instead of going PP all the way.

That being said, I do agree that
- placing both expansions at the end is ridiculous. Considering the amount of space needed the extra expansions should have been placed somewhere near the start and somewhere near the middle so you can actually use them for the chapter.
- the yield of all of the buildings is way too low and the ratio between the long run and short run is ridiculous.
- the amount of sentient goods needed is ridiculous, especially considering the decay rate.

I know Inno wants to slow down the players, but it looks like they are doing so now in an increased way due to their own earlier decisions. People had a problem with the Orc chapter being slow. So they introduced the PP-instants later and noticed how people rushed through the next chapters using them. Meaning they didn't learn from the incident to make more balanced chapters to make the progress more balanced. And after having introduced those instants, they quickly became more common. So common in fact that they could be used to rush through chapters. So again, not a great example of learning to set up a balanced progress.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

I enjoyed this chapter, it was the toughest challenge so far to do with zero tech lock - the margins of error were razor-thin. But at the end-game, there is not much challenge left in other aspects of the game.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

I enjoyed this chapter, it was the toughest challenge so far to do with zero tech lock - the margins of error were razor-thin. But at the end-game, there is not much challenge left in other aspects of the game.

0 tech-lock? I'm locked pretty much all the time in this chapter. It's not the KPs, those are filled easily enough. But even with 2 factories of each tier for the sentient goods, I sometimes had to wait for those, but mostly it's just waiting for the special goods. I have 8 academies, got them to lvl 2 pretty much right away and that was not enough to produce enough of the goods to unlock the next techs without having to wait for days. I have 2 each of the next level guestrace goods and again, that's not enough not to have to wait for days on end for them to produce their stuff. The sheer amount of those goods needed vs the yield is pretty much a guarantee one will get locked.

And you say ENJOYED, suggesting you already are done with it. I wonder what world you play on and under what name, because I definitely would like to take a look on how you organised your city and I can't find MinMax gamer on any of the first 6 US servers.