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    Your Elvenar Team

The Spire Wizard for Elvenar

Sir Squirrel

Artist EXTRAORDINAIRE and Buddy Fan Club member
Hey @Wolf Run , I am not sure how your FS member figured out which goods are favored in each tourney week. A list of favored goods for each different week might help others and I would certainly like to know what they are. I am sure if I kept a closer eye on needed goods for catering the tourney provinces I could figure it out, but I mostly fight the tourney.
 

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
how your FS member figured out which goods are favored in each tourney week
Just a guess on my part, but maybe they are using the old tourney structure advice that's on Gems? From what I see of that FS, the highest Ch is 9, with most being Ch6 or lower. Those players may not know that Gems tourney info has been outdated for over a year since the tourney structure changed.
 

Wolf Run

New Member
So, I didn't notice when I joined my first tourney last week but once the next tourney starts, the favored good will be on the top left of the screen. I think there must be a pattern because they said, "last week was Elixir so this week is Magic Dust, next week is Gems, then Marble, Steel, etc moving to the right; and, the bias affects the spire as this week we'll have Magic Dust, but for the Spire it'll also include the two corresponding goods so this week in the Spire Steel and Scrolls will also be favored." That's what they said, is this different than the old info or is it new? I'll go review the information from Gems when I have another bit of time to look, thank you.
 

Lelanya

Scroll-Keeper, Keys to the Gems
Hmm interesting. I mainly fight Spire, or I have, but I've found, if you can't take 2 troop types successfully (weak Sanctuary, low level Fire Phoenix), then catering is a good option.
One thing I have found with this guide, we will use a lot of gold and supplies (whichever is lower ofc), but I can't say I have noticed that we are favoring the old tourney boosts though. I will be watching in my newer cities from here on in.
I used to just wade in and assume that the more precious an item was, the more likely I was to need it, but I feel a bit differently after using the Spire Wizard. I will say I used the guide militantly for a couple of weeks and have now absorbed some of the core lessons, so I usually just wing it.
@Wolf Run you could try the same.
 
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samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
Sorry to derail your thread @Dzesyi9 , but I don't want newer players to have inaccurate info on a topic even if they post it in a different thread.
the favored good will be on the top left of the screen
That's incorrect. The tourney names are relic based, not goods based. This week's tourney will be Dust. You will have all dust provinces that you have completed available for tourney rounds. As you progress through the chapters and on the world map, your provinces available for a tourney will continue to increase as you complete them. If you were to complete a dust province during a dust tourney, it would immediately be added to your available provinces for that tourney. All of the FS relics received in the chests after the tourney ends will be dust relics. The tourneys do follow the order of goods (that's been the case for both structures of tourneys) as they are listed in the HUD interface at the top your screen.
Before the changes in Oct 2020, the only resources required for catering were coins/supplies (those ended at some chapter, but I can't remember which one) and regular goods. Then, the most required goods for a tourney were the goods that corresponded to the tourney relic type and the goods from the other 2 tiers that were in the same location for their respective tier. So, dust would have been dust, steel, scrolls; marble would have been marble, crystal, elixir, etc. under that system. Those items were required ~80% of the time with all other goods accounting for the remaining ~20%
In the announcement for the new tourney structure in Oct 2020, here is the quote about the changes for goods:

"Requested Goods in Catering are no longer tied to Tournament types (e.g. previously mostly Planks, Silk and Gems in Planks Tournaments). Instead, a random selection of resources available to players in specific Chapters is made for each Encounter. These resources can now also include Coins, Supplies, Mana and Orcs. The table below indicates in which Chapters certain resources can appear in Tournament Encounters:"

I'm 100% combat in the Spire and know nothing about how the required resources for diplomacy work. The company never tells us these things. The formula for combat in the spire (those things in your city that cause Spire squad size to increase, thus increasing losses that have to be replaced) was determined through crowdsourced data by a brilliant mathematician MinMax Gamer and remain accessible on his site even though he's no longer here. I've not seen anything like that done for catering/diplomacy.
 

Sir Squirrel

Artist EXTRAORDINAIRE and Buddy Fan Club member
Yeah I agree with Sami, that is why I was asking where the info came from.
As for this wizard, I used it for a few weeks and found it very helpful in learning how to guess the right goods and to know when to close the encounter and start again when the odds are really not in your favor to save the goods for a better outcome. It is time consuming and you have to really watch what goods the wizard is telling you to put into the right spots and to tell the wizard the right color each good is after every round. But I would still recommend it for players just learning how to negotiate the spire.
 

Myne

Oh Wise One
Yeah I agree with Sami, that is why I was asking where the info came from.
As for this wizard, I used it for a few weeks and found it very helpful in learning how to guess the right goods and to know when to close the encounter and start again when the odds are really not in your favor to save the goods for a better outcome. It is time consuming and you have to really watch what goods the wizard is telling you to put into the right spots and to tell the wizard the right color each good is after every round. But I would still recommend it for players just learning how to negotiate the spire.

I use it for catering 6 or more choices.
 

Dzesyi9

Member
Updates as of today:
Coins and Supplies will always be selected by default. I haven't ever experienced an encounter that doesn't use these, so I felt like they should just always be selected. I'm not sure if this changes in higher chapters, so feedback on this would be appreciated. :)
All resources will be set to select "Wrong Person" (yellow). This is meant to save clicking so you only need to change resources to "Ghost accepted this resource" (green) or "Wrong person" (red). I've been asked to do this, but I worry that it'll cause people to make more mistakes. We'll see how it goes, though.
 

Dzesyi9

Member
Hi, I wondered if there could be an option to switch which resources are in what order after the first round? For example, I took a chance and used coins for my last spirit in the second round (instead of the second spirit as advised) and it was accepted in game, but there was no way to reflect the change in order on the Spire Wizard. Thank you for making this, I've never successfully negotiated in the spire but using the Spire Wizard has gotten me the closest I've ever been (super new user with very few resources lol).

There are a few reasons why I haven't done something like this.
First of all, I'd have to keep track of thousands of more combinations. The way you're being given the recommendations is through a tree-like system, where I only need to load maybe 100-300 combinations per encounter. If I made this change, the loading time once you select your resources would likely triple or quadruple.

The Spire Wizard's intent isn't to steal your choice away. There are still times when the Wizard can get it wrong 5 times in a row, and that's just when the spire is being particularly tricky. Whenever the Spire suggests something that I feel is not correct, even I will choose to do something else. Sometimes I'm right, sometimes the Wizard is right. It's always a gamble.

And probably the most important reason I haven't done this is that I just don't have a lot of time right now to commit to a free resource like the Spire Wizard. That's unfortunately the reality of keeping things free, at least for me. It'd be awesome to develop it more, but real life work keeps me busy enough.
 

Dzesyi9

Member
Looks like the wizard from gamer is for a PC. Wish there was a fighting wizard
If I understood the mechanics of the spire fighting, I would make one. But sadly, fighting isn't as open of a box.

I'm looking into adding 2 new changes:
1) After selecting your resources, you could have an option to select which resources you'd like to "reserve", meaning that it'd try to suggest options that limit the giving of that resource. Obviously it would still suggest those resources if they're needed to win. For my personal gameplay, I know that I'd prefer the Spire to limit how many orcs and mana it suggests to use.

2) Changing the display in some way that can tell you how many (and which) resources are possible for each ghost. This is inspired by the new spectral stone mechanic. Let's say you have 8 resources and the resources for Ghosts 1, 2, 3, and 4 are all known, but Ghost 5 could want one of 5 resources. The Spire could suggest in this kind of situation that a spectral stone be used on Ghost 5.
Screenshot 2021-12-30 141917.png

Any thoughts on these 2 ideas?
 
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Myne

Oh Wise One
Updates as of today:
Coins and Supplies will always be selected by default. I haven't ever experienced an encounter that doesn't use these, so I felt like they should just always be selected. I'm not sure if this changes in higher chapters, so feedback on this would be appreciated. :)
All resources will be set to select "Wrong Person" (yellow). This is meant to save clicking so you only need to change resources to "Ghost accepted this resource" (green) or "Wrong person" (red). I've been asked to do this, but I worry that it'll cause people to make more mistakes. We'll see how it goes, though.

today was the first time I have used the wizard in a while. I like the changes you made.
 

Deleted User - 849411552

Guest
If I understood the mechanics of the spire fighting, I would make one. But sadly, fighting isn't as open of a box.

I'm looking into adding 2 new changes:
1) After selecting your resources, you could have an option to select which resources you'd like to "reserve", meaning that it'd try to suggest options that limit the giving of that resource. Obviously it would still suggest those resources if they're needed to win. For my personal gameplay, I know that I'd prefer the Spire to limit how many orcs and mana it suggests to use.

2) Changing the display in some way that can tell you how many (and which) resources are possible for each ghost. This is inspired by the new spectral stone mechanic. Let's say you have 8 resources and the resources for Ghosts 1, 2, 3, and 4 are all known, but Ghost 5 could want one of 5 resources. The Spire could suggest in this kind of situation that a spectral stone be used on Ghost 5.
View attachment 11382
Any thoughts on these 2 ideas?
First, I'd like to say this is a brilliant tool! From comments elsewhere in the forums, I think quite a few people are finding it valuable.

I didn't see anyone replying to your last two questions, but I think the option to try to reserve certain resources and the ability to suggest using the spectral stone would both be good enhancements.
 
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