This is nuts!!

[CHANDY]

Fighting for expansions has become very one sided, after 288 expansion wins I can tell you the latest fighting is way out of balance. Terrain is problem enough so sometimes it is best to negotiate but enemies have higher hit points and are able to take a hit far better than my strongest fighters

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

According to the developers you are not supposed to have conqured more than 220 provinces.
But crazy enough you can negotiate it all, so use your troops in the tournament and crank up your factories to pay the negotiation price.

 

[DeletedUser4993]

All these guides people have put out to try and help to win a battle is wonderful. But you have to be a rocket Scientist to figure them out! Playing a game shouldn't be this hard! I haven't one a battle since they changed everything. Ya shouldn't need a collage degree to figure out a battle. My game has been at a complete stand still for months. Maybe I'll find another game, ,,something fun.

I just bribe to advance but it gets boring though I love building games so I'll probably hang for awhile. Maybe they'll fix it LMBO. I will now only fight in the tourneys in the provinces near me so I get something and some fun too. Fighting sucketh since they changed it and we all know it and we all hate it and we have repeatedly told INNO and their response................Normally, this would be an entire paragraph of unrepeated swear words. Trust me I know them all. I have 2 degrees in science with a minor in math and cannot figure this fighting thing out. BTW look at who kills who using the "i" button. Also, do no ratio more than 1:1. A 2:1 you will definitely die.

 

[DeletedUser4993]

New players pretty much have to join a fellowship now, but I think that might be apart of the plan!

I think the fellowship thing is great. Some people talk in chat and you get questions answered. Besides 25 quick loads to visit. For me all the kill the other player games are not fun.
OOPS!!! Sorry I did 2 posts in a row.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

View attachment 1704

According to the developers you are not supposed to have conqured more than 220 provinces.
But crazy enough you can negotiate it all, so use your troops in the tournament and crank up your factories to pay the negotiation price.

Yes, but my problem was that I already was over 320 provinces on the dutch server and over 260 on my main US-city BEFORE they implemented that rule. Which came without warning too. And since that time I've just been forced to negotiate everything because fighting is not an option.
Not scouting for months or even a year or more while waiting for the game to catch up is not really an option either.
And a lot of players are in that same situation and they and their position has been ignored by Inno for at least 6 months now, while they have been adding a lot of units that are still useless because its not the kind of units one faces thats the problem, but the sheer number.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Yes, but my problem was that I already was over 320 provinces on the dutch server and over 260 on my main US-city BEFORE they implemented that rule. Which came without warning too. And since that time I've just been forced to negotiate everything because fighting is not an option.
Not scouting for months or even a year or more while waiting for the game to catch up is not really an option either.
And a lot of players are in that same situation and they and their position has been ignored by Inno for at least 6 months now, while they have been adding a lot of units that are still useless because its not the kind of units one faces thats the problem, but the sheer number.

Well I never said I agreed with them, as said crazy enough (luckily we still can) we can negotiatate.
But to be honoust I never missed fighting on the world map, I have my share on fighting plenty enough at the tournaments. so even when it still was possible I just paid off the world map anyway. on the dutch server I am at 374 provincies now.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

I have 352 finished now at the dutch server. but I've been playing less regularly
And yes, fighting enough, more than enough even, in the tourneys. However, I don't WANT to fight all the time. I was pretty happy with just the occasional battle in the provinces.

 

[DeletedUser3823]

All I can say is, they ask for feed-back on things. Then when you give it, you get the poo-poo on you attitude for criticizing . Most people play these games to relax and have fun. Not to spend hours figuring out a strategy, to go into a battle and get your butt kicked in less then 5 sec. lol. Sorry if I offend anyone.

 

[DeletedUser9511]

You didn't. Well, perhaps some Innogames-defenders, but it happens. Those people seem to live outside the real game and just deny all problems.

@Katwijk
Sometimes you CANNOT research more squadsize upgrades yet. Or you have to wait endlessly. The range where battles are actually winnable was decreased by the new system. Many people hit impossible fights pretty early on. It's one of the reasons so many people quit.

If the Developers were to play the game everyday and join Fellowships to inform players of the ways to solve their battle problems, they'd be unappreciated anyway due to the fact that players get way ahead of themselves and the flow of progression by buying their way through the game instead of learning how to progress without diamonds and negotiation. Players don't care to understand progression Tiers, all they care about is having the most of everything regardless of how hard that makes it on each and every one of them to battle effectively. At the end of each research Tier, there is a recommended number of provinces to complete. They are there for a reason. Ignoring it and going over, puts you in a position to have to negotiate everything except tournaments. This is where play style comes in. You can either cheat and buy your way through or you can choose a clean play through to enjoy all it's many features. In this way, the playing field is somewhat evened out between those who can afford Diamonds, and those who can't. No one using Diamonds in Elvenar, cares about using the battle system throughout the game. They'll tell you they've progressed just fine without it. Which is fine and dandy because negotiation is still available to progress without battle. Later, when they decide they want to use the battle system, they realize they got too far ahead of the natural flow of progression and realize that they have a lot of research to catch up on because they just couldn't seem to follow recommendation stated within the game. Then, they always end up in the forums complaining about not being able to win battles. With Auto battle, you're risking units you'd rather not lose but no one is willing to use fight and control their troops on the battlefield for less casualties. Games are supposed to provide us a challenge. For those unable to go one route, another is available. Diamonds can be used effectively without having to sacrifice your ability to win battles. This all comes from experience. People should read up on the battle tips provided here by Mykan and the ones available in the wiki. Developers have heard your voices but they can't get anyone to read and apply the knowledge available to everyone. This is why they've made it so Tournaments are more fair for everyone, not just the players who know better. And those who really do know what they are doing in Elvenar, have something to show for it, like...lack of complaints.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I dont know why diamonds got involved in this.

The reccommenden BS never existed in the first place. it was made somewhere halfway. and also in a crappy manor.

Seroiously if they wanted to control the flow of unlocked provinces they could very easily do so. Why you think we have a gold coin limit in our main halls? to not use for balance purposes?

Exactly. there is no recommended line, the with there latest additions (new wonders) the line is very very very clear. overscout as much as possible and ingnore the "battle limitations" on the world map by negotiating.

If you follow this totally unenforced limit that only exists on battling (and nothing else) you loose out on expansions, wonder power and even on guest race production.

And seriously if you're a non diamond player, overscouting is even more important only because it's your only way to more expansions.

 

[DeletedUser9511]

I dont know why diamonds got involved in this.

The reccommenden BS never existed in the first place. it was made somewhere halfway. and also in a crappy manor.

Seroiously if they wanted to control the flow of unlocked provinces they could very easily do so. Why you think we have a gold coin limit in our main halls? to not use for balance purposes?

Exactly. there is no recommended line, the with there latest additions (new wonders) the line is very very very clear. overscout as much as possible and ingnore the "battle limitations" on the world map by negotiating.

If you follow this totally unenforced limit that only exists on battling (and nothing else) you loose out on expansions, wonder power and even on guest race production.

And seriously if you're a non diamond player, overscouting is even more important only because it's your only way to more expansions.

I only mention Diamonds because it can make any player lose sight of what it takes to advance without them, much like the confusion you may be experiencing in thinking that you may not have enough room to build wonders without them. Once you use Diamond's you'll be thinking you can't make it without them. That is all I meant by bringing diamonds into it. You pretty much confirmed it here. There is a lot of value in learning from the bottom up rather than skipping most of it for a huge city right off the bat and a rank to use as leverage and a means to make other players believe you're experienced. It's a major distraction from the truth. Which is that most "experienced players" don't even realize what it takes to obtain the experience they claim to have. It takes time to reach the top of the research tree and build up a city. It drives most players nuts (hence the thread title). Games like this are meant to be that way. The developers want to get paid for their hard work, so would I. So they are going to make the most off of impatience. (hence the saying "patience is a virtue".) In the end, any game is much more rewarding without the cheat codes. And those who use them are addicted to doing so simply because it would present a challenge not to.

 

[DeletedUser8779]

The waiting at the end of the last chapter is not what drives people away from the game. Getting the feeling that it's becoming impossible to get there (or advance at a pace the PLAYER HIMSELF likes) is what drives them away.

I think this observation hits the bull's-eye. I'm too new to have been around before any current changes in the game design, but it does seem odd to me that the devs appear to have actively chosen to introduce frustration into the game. (See recent Q&A discussion around expansions and the ongoing discussion in this thread and others concerning battle issues). That seems way too counter-intuitive to me. Yeah, some folks will purchase their way out of it, adding a few bucks to the Inno coffers, but expecting many folks to do so seems short-sighted.

Generally speaking, people play games to accomplish things, to make progress, while they invest their time (and maybe dollars). The ultimate goal is to feel that they're winning something of value in return for the investment. To have the devs tell'em, "Nope! Whoa! WE'LL tell you when we want you to be satisfied," is sort of silly. It just makes folks take their investment elsewhere.

 

[Tauriel Dragonwood]

I'm learning how to play this game better from the mistakes I made in Beta and
passing on this knowledge to my fellowship and fellow Elvenar players on the Forum.

SCOUT ONLY PROVINCES NEEDED FOR NEXT CHAPTER
To avoid major problems on your journey through Elvenar,
please sit a spell and look what I’ve found for you to read.
This hint from the Wiki Forum you should heed.

Hint: It is advisable to scout only the amount of provinces needed for the next chapter in the research tree. The cost for fighting or trading to complete the province will increase with each newly scouted province. In later provinces you will need Orcs to trade.
https://en.wiki.elvenar.com/index.php?title=World_Map

NEGOTIATIONS CHANGE IN RING 11
If you have not reached the Orcs & Goblins Chapter 8, have difficulty winning battles, and do not wish to spend diamonds to solve Encounters, do not scout past ring 10. Open an Encounter and look at the Ranking points completing the encounter will give you to find out what ring you are in.

When I started playing Elvenar on the Beta server, a lot of us Elvenar players raced through battling as much as we could to get land expansions. Then we came to an abrupt halt when the new Battle System was set up. I had to stop fighting on the Worldmap provinces (not the tournaments) because enemy units outnumbered me. All I could do was negotiate.

The Dwarven Chapter shows Provinces Completed: 157/160. Because I over scouted, that's going to cause a problem. If I can't find any provinces not asking for Orcs to trade, I will be stuck until I get to the Orcs & Goblins chapter (two chapters away). And I may not even be able to unlock that chapter if I cannot solve Encounters. Oh woe is me for charging ahead recklessly.

We need the above Wiki Hint prominently displayed in the game. If I was made aware to only scout provinces needed for the next chapter, I would not have over scouted. Ultimately causing problems for me later in the game.

 

[Mykan]

SCOUT ONLY PROVINCES NEEDED FOR NEXT CHAPTER
To avoid major problems on your journey through Elvenar,
please sit a spell and look what I’ve found for you to read.
This hint from the Wiki Forum you should heed.

Hint: It is advisable to scout only the amount of provinces needed for the next chapter in the research tree. The cost for fighting or trading to complete the province will increase with each newly scouted province. In later provinces you will need Orcs to trade.
https://en.wiki.elvenar.com/index.php?title=World_Map

This is a very good tip for those starting out and earlier chapters, however the restrictions and difficulty become less of an issue in later chapters. At the time of the changes the community manager mentioned the chests at the end of each tech chapter are minimum expectations not the only expectation and it was thought we might be 10-30 provinces ahead of that number. Now try and get 30 provinces ahead in chapter 3 and your in a world of pain but far less so when the guest races appear.

With many wonders and certain mechanics in halflings relying on the number of provinces completed there is sound reasoning for pushing beyond the minimum provinces. Not to the point one cannot fight if one likes provincial combat but certainly pushing ones combat abilities. With tournaments people should have a good idea what tournament round their combat skill can handle. This could be used then for them to push their provincial combat to the point they are close to that level of difficulty. This will vary by person but give people an upper combat limit suited to them as a person and their towns development.

The Dwarven Chapter shows Provinces Completed: 157/160. Because I over scouted, that's going to cause a problem. If I can't find any provinces not asking for Orcs to trade, I will be stuck until I get to the Orcs & Goblins chapter (two chapters away). And I may not even be able to unlock that chapter if I cannot solve Encounters. Oh woe is me for charging ahead recklessly.

We need the above Wiki Hint prominently displayed in the game. If I was made aware to only scout provinces needed for the next chapter, I would not have over scouted. Ultimately causing problems for me later in the game.

There are 222 provinces in rings 1-10 before the orc requirement, so you will not run out of provinces to clear prior to chapter 8, which has a much smaller province requirement.

 

[Tauriel Dragonwood]

There are 222 provinces in rings 1-10 before the orc requirement, so you will not run out of provinces to clear prior to chapter 8, which has a much smaller province requirement.

Thank you Mykan. When I looked on the World Map at the provinces to complete to gain expansions, all I see are "Very Hard." Well that's not good because they are in Ring 11. Ring 11 has Orcs to trade. I can't fight because the units there outnumber me and I can't negotiate because I need Orcs.
(Not spending diamonds).

So I will just compete in the Fellowship Tournaments, which I am enjoying very much. Need to find a better unit match up to defeat those Faineant Frogs and yet another Orc - a Murkey Orc Deserter. I'll be busy building Ancient Wonders to increase the health and strength of my troops, and upgrade Ancient Wonders as high as I can, especially the ones that strengthen my military units. Will work on upgrading my Armories to increase the training squad size in the Barracks. I'll research promotions and squad size upgrades in order to have a formidable force to defeat the enemy units in battle when I am ready to take on those provinces in Ring 11. I definitely won't be bored.

I'm doing everything backwards at this point because I did not realize I was over scouting. For all new Elvenar players, work on getting Ancient Wonders. They not only help your troops in battle, some give you coins, supplies and population so you do not have to build so many buildings, which saves space. Also, it's been suggested to me to build only goods buildings you get a boost for. I still build at least 1 goods building I don't get a boost for because I love the animations. I suggest everyone read Mykan's Guild to Ancient Wonders. It has helped me decide which Ancient Wonders to build. You obviously can't build them all, or can you? Here's the link.
https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/mykans-guide-wonders.4029/#post-24866
.

 

[DeletedUser5666]

T Dragonwood, just a head's up. Over this past weekend, I "lost" all but one broken shard on nine Ancient wonders, none of the runes are missing (YET!), but I only needed one broken shard to complete my level 6 upgrade on the Endless Excavation, as well as Needles of the Tmepest and the Mountain Halls, I put a blurb in here, as CS isn't available on weekends, and am blocked out of there now, for all the good that they do, I told them that if they did block me, it would probably be doing me a favor! Check and track stuff, they are not pulling the mana at the time published, it was supposed to be 10PM Eastern Standard Time, my time zone, and last night it was done at 4:17 AM. We are the only ones required to follow the rules. I was never made whole from the 15 biulder boosts that "disappeared, even AFTER shownig them the times and dates of the folks who gave them to me... cavalier doesn't even begin, no wonder folks are dropping like flies, they will NEVER be able to turn this into a pay for play model at this rate... I will NOT be playing any other innogames until they give a satisfactory answer.

 

[Tauriel Dragonwood]

T Dragonwood, just a head's up. Over this past weekend, I "lost" all but one broken shard on nine Ancient wonders, none of the runes are missing (YET!), but I only needed one broken shard to complete my level 6 upgrade on the Endless Excavation, as well as Needles of the Tmepest and the Mountain Halls.

TxmnTC, sounds like a glitch. Wait and see if Support can have the game developers fix it. This is terrible that we are losing so many Elvenar players. My fellowships in Arendyll and Winyandor are doing well but not so on the Beta server. So many of our team mates over there have high-level cities and they just lost interest in the game. Major changes will have to be made to keep the new players around. They're already finding it difficult and they just started. I hope your problem is fixed to your satisfaction.

 

[Tauriel Dragonwood]

All these guides people have put out to try and help to win a battle is wonderful. But you have to be a rocket Scientist to figure them out! Playing a game shouldn't be this hard! I haven't one a battle since they changed everything. AND I MEAN NOT ONE. This is nuts!! Ya shouldn't need a collage degree to figure out a battle. My game has been at a complete stand still for months. Maybe I'll find another game, ,,something fun.

T Linke, don’t get discouraged. The guides are a wee bit confusing to me also. As soon as the new battle system was set up, I could not fight anymore on the World Map to complete provinces for expansions. Then I found the Fellowship Tournaments. The Fellowship Tournaments reward me with much-needed relics and Knowledge Points (KP) for completing a Tournament Province. The relics and KPs help to upgrade our Ancient Wonders, and complete research.

On the Tournaments, you get to practice your battle skills. When you learn what is a good unit match up to defeat the enemy units, you can give the order “Finish Battle Automatically!” Then sit back to watch your troops fight on their own. Be careful hitting auto-battle. Once you press that button you can’t stop the fight, if your troops are being pummeled by the enemy's might.

Become familiar with the 5 Classes of Units: Light Melee, Light Ranged, Mages, Heavy Melee, and Heavy Ranged Units.
Elvenar has made it easy for us by using different colored symbols to represent the different unit classes.

Blue Sword is Light Melee
Green Arrows are Light Ranged
Stars on Purple Background are Mages
Fist is Heavy Melee and
Yellow Fire Symbol is Heavy Ranged.

When choosing units for battle, just hover over a unit and you will see what unit class is better at defeating another unit class.
Their colored symbol will appear over an enemy unit.

Light Melee is best against Light Ranged and Mage Units.
Light Ranged is best against Mages and Heavy Melee Units.
Mages are best against Heavy Melee and Heavy Ranged Units.
Heavy Melee is best against Heavy Ranged and Light Melee.
Heavy Ranged is best against Light Melee and Light Ranged Units.

I always check the Unit Information display before engaging in combat (upper right corner Info icon). Pay particular attention to the Unit Type and Class, Damage, Hit Points, Weight, Movement and Attack Range, Strike Back, Initiative (who moves 1st), Attack & Defense Bonuses, and Special Abilities.

You can hover over the enemy units on the battlefield to check their range of movement. Never go up against enemy units that outnumber you.
I hope my explanation helps you understand the Battle System and keeps you in the game.

 

[DeletedUser9399]

All these guides people have put out to try and help to win a battle is wonderful. But you have to be a rocket Scientist to figure them out! Playing a game shouldn't be this hard! I haven't one a battle since they changed everything. AND I MEAN NOT ONE. This is nuts!! Ya shouldn't need a collage degree to figure out a battle. My game has been at a complete stand still for months. Maybe I'll find another game, ,,something fun.

It also seems to me "combat" is hugely slanted towards the game. I'm fine with "catering" but I would like to "play" the "battle" option more often except for the following issues.

1. The "game" typically gets the initiative
2. The layout of the province is also typically laid out to favor the disposition of "game" forces
3. The initial placement of my troops in the battle view always places my troops in the most awkward position preventing initial movements for strategic placement and I have not been able to figure out any logic between the selection of troops in the "fight" menu that translates to initial positioning in the battle view.
4. When I "shortcut' by clicking my 'enemy' target it seems the game automatically always moves my troops to the most disadvantageous physical position blocking my other troops or allowing range units to 'escape' my blocking troops.
5. It appears the game typically has an advantage in "damage" and "hits"
6. I am always facing troops that are "hard" or "very hard" <- is this it for the rest of the game, I will always be at the disadvantage?
7. Often the game is missing the 'lines' defining the movement hexagonals or my troops are invisible in the battle view

Perhaps I need to understand the "finer" points of "combat" but it seems pretty straight forward - and if there are subtleties I'm missing - why is it so complicated? If the 'battle' option is discouraged by making it grossly weighted in favor of the game, then why include it?

Perhaps I should work on understanding my troop preparation better, but again - in the game flow, acquiring the "assets (buildings & foreign troops)" to "power up" my troops seems like I will be in a lag time and constantly "catching up" making me the "designated" loser by default. Again, I'm a newer player so perhaps there are subtleties in developing my armies or perhaps there is a game flow where you go through a growth phase before catching up - I don't know, guess i'll find out.

 

[DeletedUser9399]

I just bribe to advance but it gets boring though I love building games so I'll probably hang for awhile. Maybe they'll fix it LMBO. I will now only fight in the tourneys in the provinces near me so I get something and some fun too. Fighting sucketh since they changed it and we all know it and we all hate it and we have repeatedly told INNO and their response................Normally, this would be an entire paragraph of unrepeated swear words. Trust me I know them all. I have 2 degrees in science with a minor in math and cannot figure this fighting thing out. BTW look at who kills who using the "i" button. Also, do no ratio more than 1:1. A 2:1 you will definitely die.

But only playing tournaments makes the whole strategy of planning and building armies in the cities a moot point - basically a pointless exercise negating one of the key features of the game.