Thoughts about Arcane Residue...

[Dew Spinner]

If you think adequate support to your FS goals means that you have to completely cripple your city beyond your ability to recover, then you probably need to look at a different FS. Like several posters have said, you can actively participate and support the FA without completely crippling your city. @CrazyWizard is probably right - you need to find an FS where you are a better fit.

This is not only "thinking inside my own game", it is just thinking about the game in general. If meeting the expectations of your FS is driving you to distraction and stressing you out, is this still fun for you? Yes, ARs are hard to get if your FS is trying to keep a top spot (I know there is a lot of disagreement on that, but I happen to be in the camp that thinks this is true), but are there other badges you can contribute that won't cripple your city? Is your FS really tracking how many of each badge each player puts down? Are they going to boot you because you only made 10 ARs, even though your dropped 100 statues?

We have a lot of players in our FS who are very gung ho on FA, but they don't expect everyone to be that way. Honestly, for most FAs, I still tear my city apart, bring in a bunch of extra T1 boosted manus, level 1 WS and T1 marble/plank manus for badges. But this is my choice. Nobody in my FS (even our most FA fanatic members) calls me on the carpet if I don't go nutso for an FA. I realize that this is not your experience, but maybe it should be. If you are being judged unworthy because you don't destroy your city and cripple your ability to grow for several weeks, then your FS is probably a bad fit.

I have never said anything about my FS's FA expectations or that they are tracking badge drops or forcing players to do things, so I don't know where this is coming from. I would have to assume players in a FS can see who is not pulling their weight and dragging down the rest of the team, that was all I said about tracking badges, not that my FS keeps a spread sheet or anything. I can tell who isn't pulling their weight, so I assume others can too. Like I said it's like the player who consistently drops 180 pts. on tournament just to get the prizes, everyone can see that repeatedly happening. The discussion is about being a Team Player in a FS and how the resource sucking of the ARs causes a hardship. There is enough here to discuss without things being made up that were never said.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

FS have goals as I am sure you are well aware. It is easy to tell who contributes what to each waypoint/switchpoint with out physically tracking it on paper, again as you are well aware. I am not forcing anyone to do more, you are now grasping at straws to defend your stance. In no place did I say anything like I was whipping or forcing people. Personal attacks are also a good indicator of a defense that is severely lacking. Where was fear and violence ever mentioned...except by you? It might be you who needs to find a place to relax your mind. I give you an A+ for the hysterics.

I am not grasping at straws.
You came with the point that in your fellowship it was tracked and monitored who donated what.

Why else play big brother, if you don't listen feel the consequenses.

It has been implied that if you don't like FA just play as casually as you want regardless of how your FS wants to play. Which would be going against your FS and doing what YOU wanted and not being a Team Player.

There is a huge difference between doing a bit extra for the fellowship and draining yourself into oblivion agains your will.
In a team it's not you adjust yourself to everyone else, but everyone adjust and helpt out eachother.

Draining yourself into oblivion to be a "teamplayer" would be "selfish" from the others and make them not teamplayers.
In a team you try to exploit the strength of some to cover the weakens of another and vice versa.

A teamplayer means doing a step extra for eachotherm but not a giant leap.

If you hate this badge that much because your draining yourself completely empty it's not a step extra it's a giant leap.
Commiting suicide is not being a teamplayer, even if that benefits the team.
It's just stupid.

 

[Dew Spinner]

I am not grasping at straws.
You came with the point that in your fellowship it was tracked and monitored who donated what.

Why else play big brother, if you don't listen feel the consequenses.



There is a huge difference between doing a bit extra for the fellowship and draining yourself into oblivion agains your will.
In a team it's not you adjust yourself to everyone else, but everyone adjust and helpt out eachother.

Draining yourself into oblivion to be a "teamplayer" would be "selfish" from the others and make them not teamplayers.
In a team you try to exploit the strength of some to cover the weakens of another and vice versa.

A teamplayer means doing a step extra for eachotherm but not a giant leap.

If you hate this badge that much because your draining yourself completely empty it's not a step extra it's a giant leap.
Commiting suicide is not being a teamplayer, even if that benefits the team.
It's just stupid.

I did not say my FS tracked and monitored badges, I said people can see who is doing what. This is part of the problem on this forum, words are put into players mouths' in order to counter an argument, when they never said them. And I agree committing suicide doesn't help your Team but even making a moderate amount of these badges is damaging to younger cities, especially ones that will only be able to have 1 Moonstone set. That has been my premise from the beginning and still is. Events should not be designed around elements that damage younger cities, the devs took out quests from the Quest Events, awhile ago, that were damaging to players' cities and added alternatives to quests. The devs have heard both sides of this argument now and we will have to see how they proceed. I don't believe you will see the clamor over this badge die down any time soon, it has been very ill received since they instituted it. I can understand that Higher Chapter cities like this badge because they can excel at it but this game has many more mid and lower chapter cities and their concerns should have just as much or even more weight, as the smaller cities can not adapt to changes as easily as Higher Chapter cities. There is really no sense in discussing it further, now that some old timers have turned the discussion nasty. This Forum should be an open and welcoming community where players of all levels can express and discuss things. The reason you only see newcomers post a few times and never see their names again is because as soon as there isn't 100% agreement with the old timers, the old timers immediately get nasty with them and chase them away. That is too bad, everyone should be able to discuss things like an adult with out getting nasty, rude or slinging personal attacks. No one in this community should be participating in or condoning that type of behavior, yet I see it all the time.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I agree committing suicide doesn't help your Team but even making a moderate amount of these badges is damaging to younger cities... Events should not be designed around elements that damage younger cities

The FA is a team event though so unless an entire FS is full of young cities couldn't each player focus on badges that don't hurt them?
Even if it is an entire FS full of new players perhaps growing into a better FA FS over time should be a goal rather than perfection from day one?

The reason you only see newcomers post a few times and never see their names again is because as soon as there isn't 100% agreement with the old timers, the old timers immediately get nasty with them and chase them away.

You post this a lot, but that doesn't make it true. These forums generally give back what you put in. If a new player comes in with questions and genuinely wants to learn and become part of the community they are well received and tend to stick around. If, however, they come in swinging with pre-conceived notions and unshakable beliefs that the more experienced players have already disproven they're going to get some pushback.

 

[samidodamage]

I did not say my FS tracked and monitored badges, I said people can see who is doing what. This is part of the problem on this forum, words are put into players mouths' in order to counter an argument, when they never said them.

Here are your exact words:

You are either a Team Player or you are not. Don't worry people are keeping tabs on who is dropping what. Players not being Team Players are frowned upon.

Either that statement indicated tracking and monitoring or 'people are keeping tabs on who is dropping what' doesn't mean what I think it means...

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Here are your exact words:

Either that statement indicated tracking and monitoring or 'people are keeping tabs on who is dropping what' doesn't mean what I think it means...

Thanks I was already searching for the exact wording.

It really sounds like I remember it, "big brother is watching you"

 

[Sprite1313]

Events should not be designed around elements that damage younger cities

I absolutely agree with this, but I don't think this was designed to hurt any cities. As @CrazyWizard has articulated several times, this badge isn't actually too painful IF you only do one path on each stage, and don't go crazy in the pit. So, as designed, this badge can be pretty easy. However, many of us are more competitive than that and try for high ranking. This requires many, many more ARs and catalysts. But, we could choose to only do the minimum and have an easier time.

I don't believe you will see the clamor over this badge die down any time soon, it has been very ill received since they instituted it. I can understand that Higher Chapter cities like this badge because they can excel at it

I agree that players will continue to complain about this badge. I am one of those; I hate this badge. Yes, you can get mystical objects for your trouble, but I still hate this badge. It is wasteful and painful. I disagree that higher-level cities like this badge. I haven't memorized this entire thread, but my sense is that @Iyapo1 is the staunchest defender of the badge, and he is in Chapter 7, so part of those mid-level players whose voice you think should be heeded the most. Several of the larger players have mentioned ways to help produce these badges and make it less painful, but I don't recall any strong support for the badge itself. Even @CrazyWizard just explained how it was doable if you are casual in FA.

this game has many more mid and lower chapter cities and their concerns should have just as much or even more weight, as the smaller cities can not adapt to changes as easily as Higher Chapter cities

I agree that a new player's opinions are just as valid as an older player's, but disagree that the voice of newer players should carry more weight than older players. I also disagree that older players can adapt more easily. They have built their cities to the way the game has been for years. Look at how the tournament changes have hurt older players. They cannot unplace expansions; they cannot level down AWs without destroying them. As a mid-level player, I still have more flexibility to avoid placing expansions and be much pickier in the AWs I place; more-established cities don't have that option.

It's possible that they have more moonstone sets than others, but not all of them will. Some have chosen not to place the moonstone, and I doubt they are likely to just for FA. And, as several players have suggested, it is still possible (and encouraged by many players) that Inno will add CCs to additional buildings going forward (hopefully just omitting the disastrous goods imbalance on future options).


Edit: I started playing in August, about a month before your forum join date, so I am also a new player, and I have not felt attacked or unwelcome on the forum.

 

[Alram]

I'm in ch6. I don't have a moonstone city. I can crank out a lot of arcanes. I don't know how many. I don't know how many my fellows made either. We had a lovely time.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I agree that players will continue to complain about this badge. I am one of those; I hate this badge. Yes, you can get mystical objects for your trouble, but I still hate this badge. It is wasteful and painful. I disagree that higher-level cities like this badge. I haven't memorized this entire thread, but my sense is that @Iyapo1 is the staunchest defender of the badge, and he is in Chapter 7, so part of those mid-level players whose voice you think should be heeded the most. Several of the larger players have mentioned ways to help produce these badges and make it less painful, but I don't recall any strong support for the badge itself. Even @CrazyWizard just explained how it was doable if you are casual in FA.

Actually I am a fan of it, but thats because I know how an FA could be without it.
One of the designs of this badge is that it slows players down, I understand that some people will not like it (those that go all out)
But the alternative is worse.

I see this as a good cough drink, not tasty but healthy.

Slowing down those top achievers prevents the competition to turn out into a destruction derby as I have shown before.
More fellowships are now able to take a throw at those top spots without completely destroying there cities.

The old system was a race to the bottom, who was willing to play destruction derby the most. now fellowship who hate it have a change to compete in the FA without having to follow the race to the bottom.
It also disallows that a single fellowship to dominate the FA. it's more likely that there will be more different winners in the furture as a fellowship could prepare and make a throw at it after saving up teleport spells and CC's for months.

Just like 1 player can throw 7 weeks of units at 1 tournament.

 

[Sprite1313]

I see this as a good cough drink, not tasty but healthy

LOL.

And I stand (well, sit, actually) corrected. Sorry if I put words in your mouth.

it's more likely that there will be more different winners in the furture

I am less optimistic than you are, partly because on Ceravyn, the FAs on this new format have been won by the same FS, and by a wide margin (like 25K points). This is, however, a very limited sampling pool, so I may be very wrong on that. I hope I am.

 

[Dew Spinner]

The FA is a team event though so unless an entire FS is full of young cities couldn't each player focus on badges that don't hurt them?
Even if it is an entire FS full of new players perhaps growing into a better FA FS over time should be a goal rather than perfection from day one?

You post this a lot, but that doesn't make it true. These forums generally give back what you put in. If a new player comes in with questions and genuinely wants to learn and become part of the community they are well received and tend to stick around. If, however, they come in swinging with pre-conceived notions and unshakable beliefs that the more experienced players have already disproven they're going to get some pushback.

You have been admonished repeatedly by the mods for being nasty to other commenters and that is a feat in itself because the mods here are extremely tolerant. The old timers are the ones that come out swinging first. Sitting down and shutting up shouldn't be required to be well received, others besides the old timers have brains and know how to use them. The game changes frequently and with it so does the game play. A forum is for discussing things not being nasty, rude and slinging personal attack. Being nasty and slinging personal attacks IS NOT pushback, it IS bullying. is Just because I don't agree with you on a certain issue doesn't mean I don't respect your experience in the game, if you want respect you should give respect! The devs now have feed back from both sides of the aisle, there is no need to prolong the incivility.

 

[Kekune]

I am less optimistic than you are, partly because on Ceravyn, the FAs on this new format have been won by the same FS, and by a wide margin (like 25K points). This is, however, a very limited sampling pool, so I may be very wrong on that. I hope I am.

On US4, the same team has been winning these forever, both before and after the format change.

 

[SoggyShorts]

The devs now have feed back from both sides of the aisle, there is no need to prolong the incivility.

See, that's your problem right there. You see it as having 2 sides while others are trying to bring us together.
It's sad really because it means you take things way too personally and view any pushback on your opinions as personal attacks.

Take my comment in the other thread that you may not be selling yourself well enough to get into a top 10 FS. You could have asked how you could sell yourself better and perhaps we could have helped since I know I've gotten some new players into stellar fellowships and I could probably get you into a top 10 one if I tried. But no, you chose to be offended. That's your right, but I doubt it makes you happy.

 

[Alram]

Stop playing dumb, you know how FA works, the players who have the room, use the room.

A forum is for discussing things not being nasty, rude and slinging personal attacks.

Good thing you cleared that up.

 

[Dew Spinner]

See, that's your problem right there. You see it as having 2 sides while others are trying to bring us together.
It's sad really because it means you take things way too personally and view any pushback on your opinions as personal attacks.

Take my comment in the other thread that you may not be selling yourself well enough to get into a top 10 FS. You could have asked how you could sell yourself better and perhaps we could have helped since I know I've gotten some new players into stellar fellowships and I could probably get you into a top 10 one if I tried. But no, you chose to be offended. That's your right, but I doubt it makes you happy.

It's not my opinion, a lot of old timers sling personal attacks at a lot of other commenters, I see it everyday. You can try to disguise it as pushback but it isn't, it's personal attacks. My discussion about top 10 FS wasn't about me per se, it more a general observation for most younger cities and that is why I didn't ask you for your help, it had nothing to do with being offended.

 

[Dew Spinner]

Good thing you cleared that up.

Saying you WERE dumb would be a personal attack, that is not what I said. Saying you were playing dumb means I actually KNOW you are smart!

 

[SoggyShorts]

It's not my opinion, a lot of old timers sling personal attacks at a lot of other commenters, I see it everyday. You can try to disguise it as pushback but it isn't, it's personal attacks.

I don't see it coming from "old-timers" any more often than from noobs. It's just the internet. People suck at communication, they suck more at debating without emotion and there are no real consequences online. The result is that sometimes things get personal but it's mostly in how you take it.
For example, you continue to use "old-timers" instead of "experienced". That's a choice you are making just like I chose in the sentence above to go with noob instead of "younger", and it's not a great choice- someone could choose to be offended.

 

[Dew Spinner]

Maybe a solution for the ARs could be to do it by chapter level like the bracelets, that would lessen the resource draining for the smaller cities and the bigger cities needing to make more to cover the smaller cities.

 

[Sprite1313]

Maybe a solution for the ARs could be to do it by chapter level like the bracelets, that would lessen the resource draining for the smaller cities and the bigger cities needing to make more to cover the smaller cities.

I don't think that is a good idea. Spire rewards are the same, regardless of chapter. You can upgrade your MA in any chapter to reduce the time for producing CCs. True, newer cities are less likely to have tons of relics sitting around, but that is the only chapter-specific limitation I can think of (you might be thinking of something I am completely overlooking). For bracelets, those really are limited by chapter (though not totally), based on how high you can have leveled your T1 manus. Personally, I think the bracelet requirements should only increase for the chapters in which you can actually upgrade those manus (e.g. 6, 9, 12, 15), but that is probably a separate thread.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

If a fellowship wants to compete for the top 10, or the top spot, they damn well better expend a ton of resources to do it. The FAs are the closest thing this game will ever have to direct competition, thankfully, but in any direct competition, if you want to win, you have to pay the price. Do you expect your favorite pro sports team to win the championship if they are not willing to pay the price for the top athletes for their team? And like in sports and other real world situations, a small and inexperienced team is not expected to be able to compete with the top teams. A fellowship of 25 cities in chapter 5 or 6 should never be able to put out the same points in an FA that a fellowship of 25 cities in chapter 10 or 12 or 15 can. The Arcane Residue was added to the game to make this gap smaller, and it has, but bigger cities will always have more resources for crafting and more space for their level 1 productions and their boosted tier 1 for bracelets. This is a fact of life and anyone who thinks everything should be equal between the baby cities and the ancient cities needs to understand that is not how it works in this game. This game should reward the exceptional, not the everyday. It is already bad enough that this game does have the equivalent of participation trophies, since all you have to place is one single badge to get the FA rewards for a stage, or complete a single star in a single province to get all the tournament rewards other people worked so hard to earn.