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    Your Elvenar Team

Time to say goodbye

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I am so sad to see you leave, @Jackluyt . But thank you for sharing your story, I am very proud of you, and glad the game had such a positive impact on your life. Everything and everyone has a part in our lives, good or bad. They're there for us to experience, learn and grow. And let go, when we have to. Thank you for being such a wonderful part of this community :diamond::diamond::diamond:, I for one will miss you tons! <3
Wish you the best in your upcoming ventures! ;):)
 
Lelanya, sometimes it is not the truth being stepped upon but the way it is conveyed, but since I didnt see it, I am just offering conjecture. THe staff here does a good job in letting us speak our minds. But if its a Goodbye thread then just dumping on someone is bad form, even if we dont like them. Better to let them go and be done with it. Just my opinion from many years on forums and BBS's.

Ed
 
ed1960 said:
Lelanya, sometimes it is not the truth being stepped upon but the way it is conveyed, but since I didnt see it, I am just offering conjecture. THe staff here does a good job in letting us speak our minds

Ed
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Nah, this seems more like straight up censorship.
ed1960 said:
But if its a Goodbye thread then just dumping on someone is bad form, even if we dont like them. Better to let them go and be done with it.
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yup, the guy is leaving, supposedly for good, so there's really not much to be gained from exposing some crappy things that he has (allegedly?) done.
TBH I thought my comment of "we may have clashed sometimes" was perhaps in poor taste despite being an understatement.
Like speaking ill of the dead or something I guess...
ed1960 said:
Just my opinion from many years on forums and BBS's.
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BBS's? Easy there, old-timer, these whippersnappers might not be old enough to recall the ancient times. I mean if you remember those your idea of a "tablet" might be less iPad and more Moses...
 
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SoggyShorts said:
Nah, this seems more like straight up censorship.
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Maybe if it had been instigated by the government ;), or more generously, for an attack on Inno?

If there's a censor involved, it's probably me. I reported the post as being a personal attack because it named and shamed a player for supposed in-game actions, (also the day after they had left and would not have any opportunity to respond).
 
Ashrem said:
I reported the post as being a personal attack because it named and shamed a player for supposed in-game actions, (also the day after they had left and would not have any opportunity to respond).
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Thanks, @Ashrem for doing that. Having been the target of a very nasty set of posts which started with an AM accusing me and another mage who had left her FS of being backstabbers and for our current AM to beware. I kept out of the conversation and watched it devolve to the point where the AM accused the other mage of being a Nazi. That was way, way too far. I contacted a mod. They came in, shutdown the thread, removed the entire set of posts about us and reopened it saying, 'be kind'. While disagreeing with someone is one thing, turning it into shaming a person is not acceptable.

I have no idea what was said, but @Duke00012 was in my FS for 2 days and we had to remove him due to his comments in chat. The next day he was in @SoggyShorts' FS and the one after that another FS. According to ElvenarStats he's changed FS's 86 times.
 
Yogi Dave said:
I have no idea what was said, but @Duke00012 was in my FS for 2 days and we had to remove him due to his comments in chat. The next day he was in @SoggyShorts' FS and the one after that another FS. According to ElvenarStats he's changed FS's 86 times
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Well, that certainly casts a different light on things. I'm glad I added "allegedly" to my post, but I'm still against the censorship or moderation, and this is exactly why: it's not a big stretch to take your information sharing and call it as @Ashrem did "a personal attack because it named and shamed a player for supposed in-game actions" But I for one am glad to have the information.
Hearing both sides of the story or at least as much information as possible rather than a cover-up is IMO preferable.
Of course, as ash & @ed1960 pointed out this is a bit of a special case since one side had left.
 
SoggyShorts said:
Well, that certainly casts a different light on things. I'm glad I added "allegedly" to my post, but I'm still against the censorship or moderation, and this is exactly why: it's not a big stretch to take your information sharing and call it as @Ashrem did "a personal attack because it named and shamed a player for supposed in-game actions" But I for one am glad to have the information.
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While I agree it could be reported for the ToS violation, another key difference is Yogi said exactly what took place and provided additional data to back up his postion. The post I reported used words close to "Destroyed a fellowship" without offering any supporting information or context. Information is useful. innuendo is is not.
 
no one bothered to censor lelanya, guess she used prettier words than i, and jack is still around posting on fb everyday...he could have refrutted my truth, but didn't...as for yogi dave trying to stir the pot guess he doesn't remember why i got booted, left that part out...been here since the beginning of the game and nothing has changed...
y'all have your own opinions and your clicks, but hardly no one will speak the truth unless it strokes someone's ego.
 
Duke00012 said:
no one bothered to censor lelanya
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Two points that you seem to be missing, "censorship" in the U.S. is unconstitutional when performed by the Government, but allowed for Public/Private groups and businesses. Forum rules are clear "We reserve the right to deactivate any account and edit or remove any content without warning"

Also, Lelanya's post does not appear to violate any rules that I can see and unless I am missing something has no need for moderation.

Ed
 
Duke00012 said:
no one bothered to censor lelanya, guess she used prettier words than i, and jack is still around posting on fb everyday...he could have refrutted my truth, but didn't...as for yogi dave trying to stir the pot guess he doesn't remember why i got booted, left that part out...been here since the beginning of the game and nothing has changed...
y'all have your own opinions and your clicks, but hardly no one will speak the truth unless it strokes someone's ego.
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Censorship is the active suppression of ideas and information by authority.

Removing material which is a Terms of Service violation on a private company's forums is not censorship. You are still able to put those ideas thousands of other places in the world, including Facebook and other forums. One might try to make a case for censorship if it were a complaint about the game or how it works or who operates it, but it was none of those things. As such, there is nothing remotely resembling censorship in this case.

Nebulous accusations against specific people are not ideas or information, and I will report them every time I see them. Specific statements of actions someone has taken may also be ToS violations within the Elvenar forums, but they are information, and I don't usually bother to report them. if you think someone's post is a ToS violation, there is nothing which stops you from reporting it.
Duke00012 said:
and while i'm at it, @Ashrem pot stirrers are not useful nor helpful and they are annoying.
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If I were interested in stirring the pot, I would be much more subtle about it. I'm flat out saying I reported the post because it was a personal attack. Apparently the forum mods agreed.
 
ed1960 said:
"censorship" in the U.S. is
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Ashrem said:
Censorship is
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OK, so since I used the word first, lemme clarify:
Basically, the act of censoring is to me censorship.
That to me includes the moderation of language on forums, not simply how it is defined in one country's (rather outdated) documents. ;)

Sure, there should be a line somewhere so that forums don't degrade into people using all-caps quotes of Samuel A. Jackson, but I don't believe things had gone that far.

I'm not debating whether rules were broken (they are vague enough that it doesn't matter) or whether inno has the right to moderate (obviously they do). I just don't generally like it.
 
SoggyShorts said:
I'm not debating whether rules were broken (they are vague enough that it doesn't matter) or whether inno has the right to moderate (obviously they do). I just don't generally like it.
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I have no issue with you not liking it. It takes the briefest of forays into the light-moderation policies of most news forums to see how quickly they degenerate into unusable sewage. The Elvenar forums are pleasant to participate in, and speaking as someone who's had posts removed before, I'm fine with it. it annoys me when it happens, but I think the price is reasonable for the result.
 
Ashrem said:
It takes the briefest of forays into the light-moderation policies of most news forums to see how quickly they degenerate into unusable sewage.
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I think it's probably a bit like subjective driving speeds: Anyone driving faster than me is an idiot, and anyone driving slower is a moron.
So obviously the exact appropriate level of moderation/censorship is the one that I like.:cool:
 
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