Time Warps and Worm Holes

[ajqtrz]

We have the instants and they are great when applied to a particular building, but what about a universal one that effects all the buildings where you can use instants all at once on a particular type of resource?

For instance, a 1 hour Goods Production spell would move all your mfr up one hour. A 1 hour Coin Production would move up your coins, a supply, your supplies, and so on. Troop production time instance are already this way as they effect whatever troops you have in the queue no matter what type they are. You could even have a sentient goods "Time Warps" that pushed our sentient goods one hour, a building Time Warp that move all your current builds/upgrades and so on. So there could be a number of them: coins, supplies, mfrs (T1, T2, T3, Sentient), builds, AW production?....etc....

These "Time Warps" would be a great "top tier" reward for completing the Spire, for finishing an event quest, as grand prizes and so on. Or, of course, they can be offered for diamonds or as part of a diamond purchase package, bonus offer or whatever. They could also be crafted with, perhaps, a "blueprint?"


Advantage to Inno (after all if it's bad for them it shouldn't/won't be done).
1) Increased player participation in FA's as the ability to move all your workshops up means you will be tempted to save and use workshop Time Warps in the heat of the "battle".
2) Increased participation in events/FA's/Spire/(Tournament?) to get these actually (rare?) and valuable items.
3) Increased diamond purchase when you offer them as part of a purchase package
4) The potential to take the place of the "missing" wishing wells (I assume they are being phased out as hurting diamond sales).
Other?

Player Advantages
1) Increased excitement in completing things where these valuable prices are being offered as grand prizes, in the random prize list, etc.
2) More variety in the prizes being offered and thus the ability to reduce the "too many" prizes being offered. (See the spire imbalance of SF discussion)
3) Increased flexibility in production and timing of production.
Other?

Disadvantages to Inno.

1) It may be that those willing to purchase things will dominate the game even more leaving the "non-purchasers" or "low purchasers" less competitive and therefore, less willing to play. This is, of course, true of any game where a purchase helps the player move ahead.
2) More coding and graphics needed
Other?

Player disadvantages.

1) Makes the game "less challenging" if you have the ability to just move a whole lot of things up, instantly.
Other?

Discussion:

The idea is sound I think, but only if you focus the particular Time Warp on a limited area. You could, of course, make it universally useful and apply to all timed items, but that would, I think, be overwhelming and make it too powerful. By limiting each type to a specific type of production I think you add just enough power to the spell to make it useful without overdoing it.

In addition, while there are some nice "grand prizes," I think some of them have hurt Inno more than they have helped. Wishing Wells may be in that category and it may be why we are seeing less of them offered. Time Warps have less potential since they are not giving diamonds but might even be used to entice players to purchase diamonds. In the end the buildings offered in events are rarely valuable enough for the effort/cost, but something like a Sentient Goods Time Warp could really help if I'm running short and need some Sentient Goods for the Spire or the next research -- how many times have I received a quest to "complete a research" only to find I can't because I need two days to -produce-enough? Ditto for every other Time Warp Category. I hate using 7 one hour instants to finish my Workshop production run but one Workshop Time Warp would be sweet since it would effect all my workshops.

AND this may be a way to use up some SF. I'm willing to bet there is a player out there with over a million SF. The ability to craft these Time Warps and to use a whole bunch of SF's up would help re-balance things in the Spire.

So, in summary I think creating Time Warps is a good idea overall. But I'm also quite sure the players here can improve on it or show it to be a bad idea (if it is). So let's do what we can and see how it goes.

AJ

 

[Deleted User - 4646370]

Player Advantages
1) Increased excitement in completing things where these valuable prices are being offered as grand prizes, in the random prize list, etc.
2) More variety in the prizes being offered and thus the ability to reduce the "too many" prizes being offered. (See the spire imbalance of SF discussion)
3) Increased flexibility in production and timing of production.
Other?

4) Much more balanced between caterers and fighters than current time instants, as we have several factories but only one training queue.

 

[Risen Malchiah]

I'd avoid using the name "Time Warp" just to prevent confusion. We have the Timewarp Ancient Wonder in the Constructs chapter and it's what came to mind before clicking on this thread. Perhaps choose another term like Time Shift (or whatever else you prefer).

This seems to me to be similar to time boosters, but with slightly different effects. Rather than using a single time booster on 1 factory or workshop, your proposal would apply a smaller boost across the board. If this affects buildings where time boosts can't be used, I can see that being very helpful. (Currently time boosters can't be used for mana, coins, set buildings, etc.)

If this proposal is limited to small increments (say, moving everything forward by 15 min, or 1 hour) I can see this being the most valuable to players on a time crunch (leaving for work or school, etc) and for caterers looking to maximize the Aureate & Storm Phoenix, which suffer from terribly short effect durations. In this respect, I like that this primarily helps those who cater. As a fighter, I've benefited from a lot of troop buffs this past year and caterers haven't had much to boost them.

 

[Ashrem]

Potentially a very uneven benefit. A three hour manufacturing speedup for someone with 15 level 20+ factories (me) vs someone with 4 or 6 (chapter two or three)

Interaction with events/adventures? A single 24 hour instant for an FA city with 200 workshops can get 40 Blacksmith badges with very little effort Someone with 100 each of T1 sets gets 100 Statue badges for 3X48 hours. (while also pulling out a few sets of any sentient goods they have running)

 

[Risen Malchiah]

Interaction with events/adventures? A single 24 hour instant for an FA city with 200 workshops can get 40 Blacksmith badges with very little effort

That's why I suggested this be limited to short durations (likely less than 1 hr). This way, in regards to FA, the most this could do is quickly boost some Dwarven, Treant or Baker badges.

If it's kept small, I can see this being allowed for things not normally affected by time boosts. It could even potentially solve the issue of time creep in 24hr collections if it's allowed to affect those buildings.

 

[SoulsSilhouette]

I remember Inno doing something similar. It was a temporary thing that made the times shorter by a third in the manufactories and I seem to remember the 5 minute was reduced to one minute and the twenty four hour to nine. It was a great little item when they gave it. They haven't done that in a very long time. So I think it is unlikely that they would introduce it as something that would be readily available to players.

 

[T6583]

I think that this could be something that could easily be abused. Especially with FA’s. Even small durations add up. Unless there was some sort of cool down so you couldn’t thrown down several in a row there’s nothing to stop players from stocking up on them.
@SoulsSilhouette I remember Inno doing a pop up that for x amount of hours manufactory times were lowered on one occasion and workshop times on another. Kinda like when they offered the double collection on certain types of factories or a diamond offer. you’re right in it’s been awhile since we’ve seen one of those specials. I think well over a year of not 2.

 

[ajqtrz]

Yep, stocking up on them could be controlled by not having them as often as you do time instants. Make them rare and expensive (in terms of earning them) and most people would use them sparingly. I like the idea of short duration ones. That makes sense. As for an uneven benefit, yep, just like players who are between chapters or waiting around with a city built for an FA with 200 or 300 workshops are uneven. It's sort of the nature of these things that they tend to benefit those who have them more than those who don't and those whose cities are built to take advantage of them more than not.

Of course some of the problem with unevenness can be fixed with cool down periods (as suggested) or a restriction on workshops to which the thing can be applied. On the subject of 40 blacksmiths if the duration is limited to 1 or 3 hours, the player using them for blacksmiths still has to have tied up his/her 200 workshops for 23 to 21 hours anyway. Not that much of a benefit overall.

I do think the real potential control though, is in the rarity of the items. One to four times a year offered as a grand prize or rare crafted item, so that people would need to stock pile them for years to have any real impact on the FA might work. And if the four times are divided up among the various categories (workshops, goods, sentient goods, etc) a player could generally only get one of each per year.

Having said all this, and read the comments so far, I'm still a bit the fence. I lean toward being positive but like many things, the "devil is in the details." The best improvement, in my opinion, so far, is in the restriction of the duration. Good idea.

AJ

 

[Risen Malchiah]

it’s been awhile since we’ve seen one of those specials. I think well over a year of not 2.

About a month ago, we had 3 days of double factory production (one for each tier) as part of the Elvenar birthday. But yeah, we haven't seen the triple speed factory or workshop thing in a while. That would be awesome. I remember staying up almost 20 hrs resetting my 3-hr cycle every hour. It was great.

 

[SoulsSilhouette]

About a month ago, we had 3 days of double factory production (one for each tier) as part of the Elvenar birthday. But yeah, we haven't seen the triple speed factory or workshop thing in a while. That would be awesome. I remember staying up almost 20 hrs resetting my 3-hr cycle every hour. It was great.

I hate to openly admit this, but I shall share. When they offered it, I was due some time off my jobs and I took the personal days to do the same... LOL.

 

[Yogi Dave]

What are the "Worm Holes'? They are mentioned in the title but nowhere else, except this post.

Reading through this, I'm not at all enthused with the idea and basically opposed to it. @Ashrem says it well.

Potentially a very uneven benefit. A three hour manufacturing speedup for someone with 15 level 20+ factories (me) vs someone with 4 or 6 (chapter two or three)

Interaction with events/adventures? A single 24 hour instant for an FA city with 200 workshops can get 40 Blacksmith badges with very little effort Someone with 100 each of T1 sets gets 100 Statue badges for 3X48 hours. (while also pulling out a few sets of any sentient goods they have running)

I see a lot of unbalance or the potential for that, depending on how it is implemented. If the use of them is restricted by cooldown periods, that's a new interaction with instants and more code. If they are too rare or require Herculean effort to get, it's a lot of coding for very little use. If they are only active for a short period of time, they don't have much benefit. I just don't see this improving game play.

 

[Deleted User - 4646370]

I think we could limit the use of these instants to 10-20 workshops/factories per instant to fix the FA issue. Enough to boost all leveled factories at once but not enough to cheat FAs. Or making it work only for workshops/factories above a certain level (the same way some quests during Bears 2019 event did.)

 

[Yogi Dave]

think we could limit the use of these instants to 10-20 workshops/factories per instant to fix the FA issue.

Which 10-20? The level 1 or the level18 ones? Or would you have to mark in some way the ones you wanted it to affect? The first way is arbitrary and would frustrate the player. The other is a lot more code for the developers and would frustrate the player, especially if they only had 8 and it would have worked for 12.

Or making it work only for workshops/factories above a certain level (the same way some quests during Bears 2019 event did.)

That was very confusing and frustrating, especially if you just moved to a new chapter which meant the building had to be upgraded a level or two before they were acceptable again. The use of instants should not be complicated or confusing.

 

[Pheryll]

I would rather see a wonder that reduced production time, than have this done through instants. But keep in mind that the reduction would be a very small percentage.

 

[Risen Malchiah]

That's why the these time shifts should be kept to a small duration. Then even if they affect all workshops, or even all buildings total,, it doesn't do much. If someone wants to blow a timeshift to save 5 minutes and make a few Dwarven badges, it's not such a big deal. As long as it doesn't allow for time-crunching Blacksmiths, then it's not so bad.

I see these main benefits:
- aligning collection times between multiple cities
- occasionally finishing productions a few minutes early for players who need to leave the house

And depending on what this affects:
- potential to collect coins or mana early (which is not currently possible with time boosts)
- potential to shift 24hr collection times slightly earlier to offset time creep
- potential to shift daily visits earlier by a small amount

So a lot of "ifs" and possibilities, none of which we can really know what the devs would allow, but we can dream.

 

[Kekune]

This feels really complicated. And I'm not sure it really solves much. If I speed up my factories, they're no longer synced up with my 3-hr AW productions... so then I need a different type of instant to speed them up, too?

I mean, I've definitely had moments where I just wish everything would finish 15 minutes earlier than it's scheduled to finish. But planning and making choices around production seems like a core part of the game, and getting around that is intentionally difficult/costly. I'm not so sure we should have an easier way to speed things up.

 

[Ashrem]

I'm with Kekune. Too many moving parts and potential downsides for me to get behind without a lot more specific details, and even then I think I'll be hard sell.

 

[Deleted User - 4646370]

In fact, I think of these "time warps" as a way to make time instants more balanced between catering and fighting (actually I already thought of it before this idea was posted). And I agree there are balancing issues with FAs I didn't see first. But if we strongly limit the availability of it it doesn't help catering enough anymore. That's why I think it'd be better to fix the FA issue another way.

 

[ajqtrz]

I'm with Kekune. Too many moving parts and potential downsides for me to get behind without a lot more specific details, and even then I think I'll be hard sell.

"Too many moving parts" is sort of funny since the game has about as many "moving parts" as any I've seen. This effects that effects this and so on and so on. But it's a good point. Complexity is difficult to master and adding another layer may be too much for some. I, personally, don't spend a lot of time analyzing how the various types of production compare with each other because to me the small percent gain isn't worth the time. So maybe this idea would be just another thing for the statistical guys to work on.

One of the reasons we have these discussions is to get more specific details. Right now the major objection has been that people with massive amounts of workshops would use these to overwhelm their FA competition, especially during the whirlpool. At least that's how I read it.

Suggestions have been made on how to avoid that. Restrict the scope of the workshop Instant Productions (Time Warp? Time Shift?) by restricting either the number of workshops it effects either by number or type, or adding a cool off period so the speed up things couldn't be stacked rapidly. Both are viable but may take too much coding to be worth it.

In addition, it seems to me that the "herculean" effort to attain these would make them more valuable and a "top of the heap" of prizes. They should take a LOT of effort or a LOT of luck and maybe both. After all, "move all your goods mfrs up 9 hours" is a darn powerful spell and probably something worth getting once you reach the top of the spire 10 times in a row (and get some cc or other lame prize 9 times in a row for doing so.)

And the instructions say to make the title interesting and eye catching, so I added, "worm hole" for the fun and interest of it. Did it work? LOL

AJ

 

[Ashrem]

"Too many moving parts" is sort of funny since the game has about as many "moving parts" as any I've seen. This effects that effects this and so on and so on. But it's a good point. Complexity is difficult to master and adding another layer may be too much for some.

I don't know why (or if, frankly} you thought the complexity issue was about players having a tough time figuring out how timer instants work, as opposed to the actual stated concern that there too many ways it could potentially unbalance the game. Cynical me considers the possibility it was a deliberate misinterpretation in order to paint me as calling players stupid in order to manipulate them to supporting your position.

I'll go to my default. How does being able to speed up production of multiple buildings at once make the game more intersting? It certainly makes it easier, but what does it do to make people want to log in more often? They get the instant, they use the instant, and a few seconds later the game is exactly the same as it was, but you have a little more stuff than if you hadn't had it. It seems to me the only "interesting" aspect to this is how you obtain the new instants in the first place, which isn't even considered in the idea.